52 replies to this topic

[Lord Perversor]

Don't get me wrong i'm not claiming it's an Op weapon but does someone else noticed those 3x Ultra Ac/5 hitting like trains lately ( specilly since patch)

Before they was a threat but gave me the impression that you had the chance to get out or fight back, but since last patch finding one in front of me feels like a death sentence.

So what are the toughts of the ppl handling them before and after? Are they as dangerous as i feel or just overreacting?

[Bishop Steiner]

I've noticed this.

Pre patch, I could usually go toe to toe with a 3 UAC Ilya in my dual 10 Ilya, and have at least a 50/50 chance of taking it down. NOW, it seems like 90% chance of doom. I think the jamming have been minimized. The hard part is trying to balance them. A single or dual UAC was often not quite enough. A triple, was solid to scary, but not truly OP.

Maybe the UAC should have an increasing jam chance the more you fire together, kinda like Ghost Heat. *Shrugs* Or just return them to the previous jam rates.

[Corvus Antaka]

yeah the uac was fine before the 15% buff. now its just ridiculous.

[IceCase88]

My 3 UAC Ilya loves it! However, it is a bit much. The UAC seems to have the ROF of an AC2 now. A different approach is warranted in this case.

[John MatriX82]

Uh stay sure that they'll nerf UAC5s again. They have already said it here.

Now the way to go is boat UAC5s and Large.. Gauss has been destroyed, so that a lot of clearly uber op builds I've been using for over a year (like 2-3 meds, GR, 3-4 Srm4 non-artemis) have gone fubar, now it's the turn of the UAC5, next everyone will be forced back to brawling so the AC 20 will become the next culpript and will be nerfed as well, so we'll boat AC5s, they'll be nerfed as well and we'll start throwing meat bars at each other.

[Appogee]

At least part of the problem is that some people are exploiting macros to fire UAC5s at their optimal rate of fire without ever jamming.

However, jamming is supposed to be an inherent characteristic of that weapon. While It's a controversial issue, I believe that using 3rd party macros to fire UAC5s and avoid the weapon jamming is basically cheating. So, while I have been using UAC5, I've never done so with a macro.

(Someone will come into this thread now and claim that:
1. because the game doesn't prevent use of macros it is therefore ok; and
2. because some people have ''G keys'' or extra mouse buttons or adjustable sensitivity then that makes firing macros ok too.)

Edited by Appogee, 05 September 2013 - 02:41 AM.

[Scalien]

Just had a match. A 4 UAC/5 cataphract ripped my hunchies hunch off in 2 volleys. It was clearly heard, wa-bam, wabam! (shattering noise) Betty telling me all the weapons I lost.

It was the only enemy around and I was fresh. Its possible friendly fire helped ( I was first mech in a line) but I've can;t remember the damage of uac's being that hard before. It stunned me.

[MadMaxMKII]

Scalien, on 05 September 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

Just had a match. A 4 UAC/5 cataphract ripped my hunchies hunch off in 2 volleys. It was clearly heard, wa-bam, wabam! (shattering noise) Betty telling me all the weapons I lost.

It was the only enemy around and I was fresh. Its possible friendly fire helped ( I was first mech in a line) but I've can;t remember the damage of uac's being that hard before. It stunned me.

I call bs. no cataphract can mount 4 UAC5, not even the 4X.

[Zephyre]

For those that want to gripe about the 4x UAC5 Jagger builds.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dba8d582fea23d2

Before you do, look at exactly what it takes to be marginally sustainable. And by they way...that build has all of 10-15 seconds of sustainable fire. Its really a comedy kill mech, built just to say I could. And I do get some quick kills, but I rairly survive a serious combat situation in that mech.

This is the 3x UAC5 build on a Ilya Muromets. Its really the only platform that is capable of properly sustaining three of those ammunition hungry weapons.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d72de557bb886c5

This is marginally more sustainable with the lack of a 4th balistic and addition of several tonnes of ammunition and two medium lasers.

From where I sit, I think the UACs are in a good spot. I find that running the UACs on chain fire eliminates most of the jamming issues. When link/group fired, I run into all kinds of jamming problems. Good pilots are not pasting down the fire button. We're making sure to let off the trigger to avoid the bonus shot while the gun is on CD. This I find gets rid of the jamming penalty while still giving a major increase over the ac5.

Anyhow, some food for though. But I will agree that macro users are simply using a machine interface to make up for their own lack of understanding and inability to work around the system using their own skill and ability.

My two cents.
Zephyre

[The Boz]

I am not sure how to counter mechs with two or more AC2, 5 or UAC5s. I play a brawler Atlas, and their constant stream of pin-point explosions destroys my components quickly, and the screenshake/blasts make it impossible to return fire.

[Amsro]

The current UAC/5 lets me troll build my Dragon Slayer.

XL400
1x UAC/5
1x MG
1x PPC

If the UAC/5 jammed as often as previous this would not be a workable build.

[FupDup]

Yesterday I used a classic K2 armed with 4 ML and 2 UAC/5. In the majority of games, even in some games that I lost, I was able to break 700 damage consistently unless poop really hit the fan hard. One match I even got 5 kills, 6 assists, and 1054 damage. And like Boz said above me, slow mechs like Atlai in particular take a severe beating from UAC builds; I've managed to actually solo a few Atlai from full health to none or almost none in mere moments.

All hail our new dakka overlords!

[Shadey99]

The Boz, on 05 September 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:

I am not sure how to counter mechs with two or more AC2, 5 or UAC5s. I play a brawler Atlas, and their constant stream of pin-point explosions destroys my components quickly, and the screenshake/blasts make it impossible to return fire.

This is simply a matter or learning to ignore it. I have mastered 2 of 3 jagers I own now and 2 of the 3 run 2xAC2+2x(U)AC5 and few people seem to have issues at my level of play with hitting me regardless of the incoming fire.

Now as far as UAC5s go... I don't find my 2xAC2+2xUAC5 JM6-DD to hit all that hard, then again I have to fire them grouped and I never get the timing right consistently to avoid jamming. And the thought that PGI thinks they can 'fix' the UAC5 gives me shudders.. Their idea of fixing weapons tends to make my head hurt...

[VXJaeger]

UACs are fine as they are now. At last Muromets is worth using, 'cause without serious firepower it dies out so easily.
And ballistics are never easymodes to use.

Edited by VXJaeger, 05 September 2013 - 04:29 AM.

[Royalewithcheese]

I think it's just that with the PPC yanked back in line with the other weapons, the formerly second-tier long-range guns get a chance to shine.

[Herr Vorragend]

The uac5 is pretty okay now. It still jams often. And mechs carrying uac5 mostly use xl engines

[DONTOR]

in most cases you need 2 uac5 to be halfway reliable. Meaning 18 TONS! plus AMMO! around 23-24 tons total. At the same time though 3 UAC5 is insanely hard hitting maybe introduce some ghost heat in the circumstance of firing 3? But all in all for the huge amount of crits and tonnage this weapon system requires i thnk the jam rate is acceptable.

[Helmer]

I used to use the uAc5 before the patch often and thought it was in a decent place.


I understand that for the guy with 1 uAc5 25% jam seemed like alot and they wanted to remedy that. However, 15% is to low, especially when running with 2 or 3.
I saw someone suggest 15% jam rate with 1 uAc5 , 25% with 2 , etc  citing that with common shared bins and moving that much ammo it only natural that jam rates would go up. I'd be fine with something along these lines.


With the current rate the uAc5 is just slightly too powerful.



Cheers.

Edited by Helmer, 05 September 2013 - 06:52 PM.
edited for clarification. Coffee good.

[VXJaeger]

Herr Vorragend, on 05 September 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

The uac5 is pretty okay now. It still jams often. And mechs carrying uac5 mostly use xl engines

Not to mention that they are packed with ammonition, ammonition everywhere.
When you are using 3 UAC5's in Muromets, nowadays in 12v12-games they eat at least 9ton of ammo, and 10t is even better.
No matter where you hit that mech, there is always ammunition waiting to explode
Jamming is good for ammo-economy

[MeiSooHaityu]

It's the usual problem with balancing weapons in MWO. You aren't just balancing for 1 UAC5, your also balancing for the guy carrying 3 of them.

Do you nerf the weapon to make the tripple UAC5 ok, but the one UAC5 garbage, or do you keep the 1 UAC5 useful, but risk the 3 UAC5 machine becoming overpowering.

Overall, I think the UAC5 is in a good place, good for the lone UAC5, but dangerous for the multiple UAC5 mech. Afterall, carrying 3 should be dangerous anyway.