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Community Warfare Meta-Economy Part 1


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#1 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 07:17 AM

Sitting down with Koniving, Jack Lowe, and Andena Olas last weekend; we developed a system for both rewards and repair/rearm to be used when Community Warfare begins. We approached the problem first by separating the two parts to make them work together in harmony. If one part doesn’t reward enough to cover the costs of repairs then it is out of balance. Thus, the following is presented with the reward system first followed by the repair/rearm system.

Earnings





Equipment Rating grants the following bonuses: Payment Multiplier, and Salvage. The equipment rating goes from F (the worst level) up to A* (the best level). The higher the level, the more money you make. A mech will go to the next rating when they have achieved a certain percentage in upgrades. Upgrades in this context will consist of the equipment in the Upgrades Tab of Mech Lab and the customization of the mech’s load out. The Upgrades Table will start with the mech’s base Rating and go up.

Rating|Payment Multiplier| Salvage|Weight Class
A* | 3.5 | +.5% | N/A
A | 3.0 | 0 | .5% | N/A
B | 2.7 | 0 | Assault
C | 2.4 | 0 | Heavy
D | 2.1 | -.5% | Medium
F | 1.5 | -.5% |Light

Equipment Rating Shift|Upgrade Percentage
+4 | 86-100%
+3 |66-85%
+2 |46-65%
+1 |16-45%
+0 |0-15%

Payment Multiplier multiplies the base amount of the contract that ranges from 1.5 to 3.5. As you can see that a top of the line mech with all of the upgrades will make more money in a match than a non-upgraded mech. The mission has a base payout that is multiplied by the Payment Multiplier.

Salvage is how much you can recover and claim as your own. This is a percentage beginning at 0% all the way up to 10%.

Now this system also encompasses pilot skill levels etc... It means that bringing out the big bad Atlas or ammo dependent build makes enough to cover its costs through all of the multipliers.

For example, a stock Jenner will have an Equipment Rating of F, so its payment multiplier is 1.5, suffers a -.5% suffers a penalty to salvage. However, if the Jenner has Endo-Steel, Double Heat Sinks, and Ferro-Fibrous Armor its Equipment Rating will shift it up by 4 which grants it a new base rating of B. This will give it a payment multiplier of 2.7 and no modifiers to Salvage. However, due to the upgrades the Jenner is now the equivalent of a stock Assault mech.

Inner Sphere Mission Base Pay





This is a just an example of how the mission base pay would be, so all values are subject to revision and additions. A mission’s base pay will use a standard flat rate to start with, but is modified by the factors of the payment multiplier and salvage bonus. One of the changes with the new pay system is that playing the game is rewarded while afking through a match will earn practically nothing.

Winning a Match: 100,000
Losing a Match: 50,000
Spotting Assists: +100,000
Damage Done: +10,000 per point of damage
Capture Win: +100,000
Capture Assist: +100,000
Exfiltration: +10,000 requires a unit to be 75% down
Flanking: +100,000
Ambush: +100,000
Defense of Object: +100,000
Salvage: 1-10%

For example, the stock Jenner from the previous example would earn the following on winning the match with 4 spotting assists, 1 kill, and 3 kill assists. (100,000+400,000+100,000+300,000)*1.5=1,350,000 C-Bills.

Now the modified Jenner would earn, using the same performance as the stock version, (100,000+400,000+100,000+300,000)*2.7=2,430,000 C-Bills.

Mech Maintenance





Mech maintenance costs will be using the TT costs for the equipment, but is modified by the faction status of the pilot. Under this system all equipment can be damaged and/or destroyed through critical hits received. Ammunition has a free replacement of 4 tons that is paid for by the contracting unit, but anything beyond that is paid for by the pilot.

A pilot is classified in a single category with the option of them being able to change factions. The factions that this system uses are Lone Wolf, Mercenary Corporation, and House Unit. The values presented can be changed to achieve a better sense of fairness. There are advantages and disadvantages to being part of each faction.

A lone wolf pilot would have 75% of the repair cost to his/her damaged equipment. The 75% is the contracting faction’s willingness to cover the cost to mech maintenance a mech that was damaged in a mission. This means that the lone wolf is responsible for 25% of his/her total mech maintenance costs.

For example, if he/she incurs a total mech maintenance bill of 5 million C-Bills, the contracting unit covers 3.75 million and the pilot is responsible for 1.25 million. This leaves him/her with a profit, from the rewards example, 100,000 C-Bills for the stock Jenner. For the modified Jenner, the profit would be 1,180,000 C-Bills.

For the Mercenary Corporation pilot, they will have 80% of their repair costs covered, so they are only responsible for 20% of their costs. However, for being part of a mercenary unit the pilot turns over 80% of their earnings to their Mercenary Corporation.

In the Jenner example, a Mercenary Corporation will pay 4 million C-Bills of the repairs and his/her net profit is 1 million C-Bills for the stock version, but would turn over 800k C-Bills to their unit. The modified Jenner would have a net profit of 2,570,000 C-Bills, but would turn over 2,056,000 of their earnings. By turning over their earnings, the Mercenary Corporation can remain solvent and avoid any financial difficulties by using the default value presented. The earnings the mercenary unit receives can be used for transportation and other costs that they might incur. The Mercenary Corporation is free to change the percentages for covering repairs and rearms that is constant with the amount the pilot turns over to their unit. This will allow units to have a 0-100% cost and turnover of earnings based upon what their members decide.

A House Unit/Clan pilot would have 90% of their repair costs covered but sacrifices 90% of their earnings. They will also receive a weekly stipend based upon their rank within their faction. Using the Jenner example again, the House pilot would have 4.5 million of their repairs covered by the House/Clan. For a stock Jenner, that would give them a net profit, after repairs, 850,000 C-Bills. The modified Jenner would have a net profit of 1,930,000 C-Bills. With the turning over of 90% of their winnings to the House, their final earnings will be the following. Stock Jenner: 76,500 C-Bills and the Modified Jenner: 193,000 C-Bills.

Mercenary Unit Contracts




Mercenary units will be able to receive contracts from House units to fight on their behalf. The pay scale for the merc unit will adhere to the Mercenary Review and Bonding Commission’s scale. A unit’s equipment rating is the average of all the mechs in the unit to determine the payment modifiers that are added to the base pay. Base pay is determined by the type of mission the mercenary unit is contracted for. Until new game modes are released, the base pay will remain undefined.

Every unit is rated according to the following table. They would all start at F rating and work their way up.

Rating | Payment Modifier
A* | +1.5
A | +1.25
B | +1.0
C | +0.75
D | +0.5
F | +0.0
To move up through the rating system, a mercenary unit must successfully complete mission contracts. Each tier requires 100 points before the unit receives a higher rating. Each successful mission is worth 1 point while a failed mission would subtract 0.5 points.

Clans and Zellbrigen





In this time frame, all of the Clans adhered strictly to the tenets of Zell, even in the face of the IS breaking it. It wasn't until the Battle of Tukayyid that the Clans rethought their adherence to Zell. Tukayyid is a full 3 years from now, so enjoy being handicapped by the rules of Zell.

See: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Zellbrigen and Total Warfare pages 273-275.

Under the Honor Rules on page 273, all of the Clans are currently at Honor Level 1 from 3049 up till May 20, 3052. Honor Level 1 states that the Clan mechwarriors will adhere fully to Zellbrigen regardless of the actions of their enemy. Thus at the beginning of each match, a Clan mechwarrior must declare a target of their duel. They are free to choose multiple opponents as long as every Clan mechwarrior present has a target. Thus, a Clan mechwarrior can declare up to 3 targets in a 10 vs 12 drop or he/she can declare two targets with another Clan mechwarrior declaring 2 targets or all of the Clan mechwarriors can declare a single target while the remaining two IS pilots can sit out the duels or they can join forces to focus fire on a single Clan mechwarrior. If the IS side focus fires on multiple Clan mechs and violates Zellbrigen, the Clans will still fully adhere to Zellbrigen. I'll quote Strum's excellent write up for how to handle zellbrigen.

Quote

"Prior to the Clan Invasion, Clan Blood Spirit, Clan Coyote, Clan Ghost Bear, Clan Goliath Scorpion, Clan Jade Falcon, Clan Star Adder and Clan Steel Viper adhered strictly to the tenets of zellbrigen. Meanwhile Clan Cloud Cobra, Clan Hell's Horses, Clan Ice Hellion, Clan Nova Cat and Clan Snow Raven were more opportunistic in their interpretation. Only Clan Diamond Shark and Clan Wolf used a liberal interpretation of zellbrigen in their conflicts with the other Clans.
After their defeat at the Battle of Tukayyid, many of the Clans began to rethink their use of these honor rules, and a number of political, military and cultural changes took place. The Blood Spirits, Jade Falcons and Star Adders became more opportunistic, while the Ghost Bears became more liberal, in the use of zellbrigen. The schism within Clan Wolf resulted in its new Crusader-minded leadership to become slightly more conservative, while Clan Wolf-in-Exile maintain a flexible definition of zellbrigen."
- summarizing statement from Sarna.net, supported by the Clan Honor Interpretation Table on page 274 of Total Warfare

Of the original invading Clans...
  • the Ghost Bears start as very strictly adhering to zell, but adopt a very relaxed stance post-Tukayyid
  • the Jade Falcons start as very strictly adhering to zell, but somewhat relax their stance post-Tukayyid
  • the Smoke Jaguars are not listed on the table, though canonical events would seem to imply that they start with and maintain a very strict adherence to zell up to (and through) the point of their Annihilation at the hands of the second Star League
  • the Wolves (the main part, as opposed to the Wolves-in-Exile) start with a very relaxed adherence to zell, and adopt a more strict (but not "very strict") stance post-Tukayyid
Of the second-wave Clans...
  • the Nova Cats start with a somewhat relaxed adherence to zell, and maintain their stance post-Tukayyid
  • the Steel Vipers start as very strictly adhering to zell, and maintain their stance post-Tukayyid
That being said, several of the basic tenants themselves would/should be relatively easy to implement, from a "programming planning" perspective:


1.) "Each warrior will issue a challenge to a different enemy. If one side outnumbers the other, then the extra warriors on that side will stand aside until one of their comrades falls in battle. A warrior can challenge more than one unit at a time."
Each opponent that has not previously been fired upon or otherwise damaged by any Clan player, that a Clan player then fires upon and does damage to, is considered to be challenged by that Clan player.
Each challenged opponent is marked or outlined as such on each Clan player's HUD, indicating that that opponent is "taken", and that other Clan players should seek other targets.
Likewise, the first opposing unit to fire upon and damage a given Clan player is considered to be issuing a challenge to that Clan player, and the opposing unit in question is marked as "taken" on the HUDs of the other Clan players.
A Clan player's "unmarking" an opposing unit after applying damage to it results in a penalty levied against their match score at the end of the match for each infraction.

2.) "A warrior has right to refuse challenges from Inner Sphere units, especially if underhanded ploys are suspected."
A Clan player challenged by an IS unit, that has not yet done any damage to the IS unit in question, would be able to "unmark" said IS unit, thus rejecting the challenge and leaving the opponent in question free to be subsequently challenged/marked by an allied unit.
A Clan player's "unmarking" an opposing unit after applying damage to it results in a penalty levied against their match score at the end of the match for each infraction.

3.) "A warrior has the right to refuse a challenge from an unit of differing weight class if other unengaged units are available."
A Clan player challenged by a unit of another weight class (Light, Medium, Heavy, Assault), that has not yet done any damage to the unit in question, would be able to "unmark" said unit, thus rejecting the challenge and leaving the opponent in question free to be subsequently challenged/marked by an allied unit.
A Clan player's "unmarking" an opposing unit after applying damage to it results in a penalty levied against their match score at the end of the match for each infraction.

4.) "No artillery or other Area-Effect Weapons shall be employed by either side."
Any Clan player that uses an AOE weapon receives a penalty levied against their match score at the end of the match for each infraction.

5.) "Intentionally moving out of the line of sight of the opponent is prohibited."
As the server cannot determine intent, this tenent would be ignored.

6.) "Systems that requires multiple units to operate, like C3 and TAG, are forbidden."
Any Clan player that uses any system that directly promotes multiple units coordinated attacks on a single target by multiple units (such as TAG and C3) receives a penalty levied against their match score at the end of the match for each infraction.

7.) "Moving out of weapon range is prohibited."
As the server cannot determine intent (the difference between "moving away to maintain a specific range" and "moving away to move out of range"), this tenent would be ignored.

8.) "Failure to fire a weapon when possible is prohibited."
As the server cannot determine intent (does the player believe that firing a particular weapon at a particular time is "possible" (e.g. prudent, advisiable)), this tenent would be ignored.

"A strict interpretation means that the Clan’s warriors generally follow zellbrigen against almost all opponents (except those considered extremely dishonorable, such as bandits and pirates, or against a long-hated enemy). An opportunistic interpretation means that the warriors follow zellbrigen unless mitigating circumstances dictate otherwise (they are outnumbered/outgunned, they think they can get away with it, and so on). Clans following a liberal interpretation use zellbrigen only against other Clans, and then only if they have the advantage."
(Total Warfare, pg. 274)

Each Clan's "strict/opportunistic/liberal" adherence rating (from the Clan Honor Interpretation Table) would then be used to determine the degree of the penalty levied against each player for each infraction, as determined by the player's Clan affiliation; a player affiliated with a Clan with a "strict" adherence rating would recieve a greater penalty for a given infraction than would a player affiliated with a Clan with an "opportunistic" adherence rating, who would in turn recieve a greater penalty for the same infraction than a player affiliated with a Clan with a "liberal" adherence rating.

Such a system (or one similar to it) being hard-wired into MWO's rewards system would both encourage Clan-affiliated players to "fight like Clanners" (and thus enforce a contrast to the fighting style(s) of the IS) and serve to highlight and encourage playstyles corresponding to each Clan's particular identity and outlook - all of which would/should provide more interesting gameplay in general, on both sides.


Clans would follow the same upgrade standard that IS pilots do and are granted the same bonuses. In almost all other aspects they are treated as House Pilots to determine mech maintenance etc... The only difference would be how their reward structure actually pays out due to incurring penalties for failing to adhere to zellbrigen, the currency they use, and the behavior they are rewarded for. Clans will use K-Bills instead of C-Bills and Honor Points instead of Loyalty Points.

Clan Specific Mission Pay and Penalties




Unmarking Target after Applying Damage: -100,000 | -5 Honor
Area of Effect Weapons: -100,000 | -5 Honor
Using Multiple Unit Systems: 75,000 | -3.75 Honor
Winning a Match: 100,000 | +10 Honor
Losing a Match: 50,000 | -5 Honor
Kills: 100,000 | +10 Honor
Damage Done: +10,000 per point of damage
Damage Done To Mechs Engaged By Other Clansman: -10,000 per point of damage | -1 Honor
Capture Win: +100,000 | +10 Honor
Defense of Object: +100,000 | +10 Honor
Salvage: 1-10% | 1-10 Honor

Adherance Rating | Penalty Multiplier
Strict | 1.5
Opportunistic | 1
Liberal | .5

To be continued in Community Warfare Meta-Economy Part 2. This series would use Battletech Universe Drop Limits.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 21 August 2013 - 07:52 AM.


#2 Hotthedd

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 07:57 AM

Why do Assault mechs get a bonus over Lights? That does not seem fair to me.

#3 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 08:14 AM

View PostHotthedd, on 10 August 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Why do Assault mechs get a bonus over Lights? That does not seem fair to me.


The reason why assaults get a starting higher base pay over lights is due to they cost more to maintain. However, lights can be customized to equal the maintenance costs of a stock assault mechs.

#4 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 01:56 PM

Bump for discussion.

#5 Hotthedd

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 06:06 PM

View PostJames The Fox Dixon, on 10 August 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:



The reason why assaults get a starting higher base pay over lights is due to they cost more to maintain. However, lights can be customized to equal the maintenance costs of a stock assault mechs.

It seems to me that this would push more people towards playing Assaults, which is a problem we already have.

#6 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 05:50 AM

View PostHotthedd, on 10 August 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

It seems to me that this would push more people towards playing Assaults, which is a problem we already have.


Not really when it's combined with the BT Universe drop limits.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 11 August 2013 - 06:19 AM.


#7 B0oN

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:08 AM

Wouldn´t it be wiser to have the "all-maxed-out" builds get a lower payment multiplier in order to keep up their scarcity and increase the risk inherent in fielding all that expensive equipment and thus urging/forcing the pilots of these "uber" machines to play way smarter than stock or medium upgraded machines ?

Addendum to layout:

Rating|Payment Multiplier|Salvage|Weight Class|
A* | x3.5 | +.5% | nothing |
A | x3.0 | +.5% | nothing |
B | x2.7 | +.0% | Assault |
C | x2.4 | +.0% | Heavy |
D | x2.1 | -.5% | Medium |
F | x1.5 | -.5% | Light |

Above layout looks a bit cleaner and easier to grasp at one look, but that´s only personal.

Nice system all in all, just with the above standing question to think about incentivizing playing less maxed-out/stock builds .

#8 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:18 AM

View PostRad Hanzo, on 11 August 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

Wouldn´t it be wiser to have the "all-maxed-out" builds get a lower payment multiplier in order to keep up their scarcity and increase the risk inherent in fielding all that expensive equipment and thus urging/forcing the pilots of these "uber" machines to play way smarter than stock or medium upgraded machines ?

Addendum to layout:

Rating|Payment Multiplier|Salvage|Weight Class|
A* | x3.5 | +.5% | nothing |
A | x3.0 | +.5% | nothing |
B | x2.7 | +.0% | Assault |
C | x2.4 | +.0% | Heavy |
D | x2.1 | -.5% | Medium |
F | x1.5 | -.5% | Light |

Above layout looks a bit cleaner and easier to grasp at one look, but that´s only personal.

Nice system all in all, just with the above standing question to think about incentivizing playing less maxed-out/stock builds .


Thank you for the layout help. :) This thread works in conjunction with this one. The entire system gives incentives for playing with stock and modified mechs of all weight classes when combined with the BT Universe Drop Limits.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 11 August 2013 - 06:18 AM.


#9 El Death Smurf

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:19 AM

not that I want R&R back by any means, this may be the best way to go about it. however, I like the thought of a meta that rewards players for using lower tech levels, thus helping people work towards upgrades as well as encouraging/ incentivizing build diversity.

Edited by El Death Smurf, 11 August 2013 - 06:20 AM.


#10 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:27 AM

View PostEl Death Smurf, on 11 August 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

not that I want R&R back by any means, this may be the best way to go about it. however, I like the thought of a meta that rewards players for using lower tech levels, thus helping people work towards upgrades as well as encouraging/ incentivizing build diversity.


I'm glad that you like it. Have you checked out the economy part 2 and drop limits threads? The links to them are in the first post.

#11 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:41 AM

Added back in the Mercenary Unit base pay section.

#12 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 18 August 2013 - 06:08 AM

Bump to keep this from getting buried and to generate discussion.

#13 Johnny Z

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:55 PM

Well thought out and each of the topics addressed make sense, if a little to complicated when taken with everything else the game as a whole will be dealing with.

#14 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:05 PM

View PostJohnny Z, on 19 August 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Well thought out and each of the topics addressed make sense, if a little to complicated when taken with everything else the game as a whole will be dealing with.


Community Warfare will be complex and complicated. The system proposed is something a player will never see, except their totals at the reward screen.

#15 Spirit of the Wolf

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:14 PM

Hmm....

Me gusta.

At first, I was thinking 'that's WAY too much cash!', but then I realized that the only ones who truly get a ton of money will be the Lone Wolves, and there's an inherent risk in doing that. I'm okay with this.

#16 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 06:48 AM

Bump since I added in the Clans and Strum's write up on how to handle Zellbrigen.

#17 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:02 AM

Updated the rewards and penalties for Clan players while altering the names of C-Bills to K-Bills and Loyalty Points to Honor Points for Clan Players.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 21 August 2013 - 07:12 AM.


#18 focuspark

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:35 AM

View PostRad Hanzo, on 11 August 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

Wouldn´t it be wiser to have the "all-maxed-out" builds get a lower payment multiplier in order to keep up their scarcity and increase the risk inherent in fielding all that expensive equipment and thus urging/forcing the pilots of these "uber" machines to play way smarter than stock or medium upgraded machines ?

Addendum to layout:

Rating|Payment Multiplier|Salvage|Weight Class|
A* | x3.5 | +.5% | nothing |
A | x3.0 | +.5% | nothing |
B | x2.7 | +.0% | Assault |
C | x2.4 | +.0% | Heavy |
D | x2.1 | -.5% | Medium |
F | x1.5 | -.5% | Light |

Above layout looks a bit cleaner and easier to grasp at one look, but that´s only personal.

Nice system all in all, just with the above standing question to think about incentivizing playing less maxed-out/stock builds .

No, because that's not fun. Some people like to min-max their loadouts and my guess is it's the same people who dump cash into the dev's coffers. Take away their fun, they take away their money. Take away the money and the game is gone.

Penalizing people for playing the upgrade metagame is extremely unwise.

That said, MW:O doesn't need an economy. So long as there's no way to destroy capital, it'll always be unbalanced. It's a fool's errand to attempt to balance an economy with only durable goods and no resource limitations. Inflation will be uncontrollable and in very short order the barrier to entry for new players will be too high.

#19 focuspark

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:39 AM

View PostJames The Fox Dixon, on 21 August 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

Updated the rewards and penalties for Clan players while altering the names of C-Bills to K-Bills and Loyalty Points to Honor Points for Clan Players.

Clans don't use money. They earn and "spend" honor. Honor is derived from proper combat success and used to acquire better weapons and 'mechs.

Honor can be lost for unhonorable actions as well. Actions such as double teaming an opponent, shooting an ally should cost Clanners honor, potentially driving their honor reward into the negative if they're really stupid.

This honor requirement is only advantage IS pilots have. They can and should gang up on a single target to eliminate it quickly. Clan cannot use this very simple and powerful tactic.

To treat Clan like IS, royally screws-over IS pilots.

#20 James The Fox Dixon

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 07:55 AM

View Postfocuspark, on 21 August 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

Clans don't use money. They earn and "spend" honor. Honor is derived from proper combat success and used to acquire better weapons and 'mechs.

Honor can be lost for unhonorable actions as well. Actions such as double teaming an opponent, shooting an ally should cost Clanners honor, potentially driving their honor reward into the negative if they're really stupid.

This honor requirement is only advantage IS pilots have. They can and should gang up on a single target to eliminate it quickly. Clan cannot use this very simple and powerful tactic.

To treat Clan like IS, royally screws-over IS pilots.


The Clans do have a monetary system. Internal within a single Clan they use work credits and trade with the those outside of their Clan they use the KE (K-Bill).

Quote



For transactions between different Clans the merchant caste makes use of a form of currency known as the Kerensky (KE). This "macro-currency" allows financial institutions to operate and for the smooth transfer of goods without having to barter materials. Largely electronic, physical forms of Kerenskies do exist for limited use: small coins two centimeters across represent denominations of 1, 5, 10 and 20 KE, while larger two-by-four centimeter rectangular blocks represent larger values of 100, 1,000, 100,000 and 1,000,000. Both coins and blocks are minted in gold and contain ID chips and chemical compounds to prevent forgery.
http://www.sarna.net...i/Clans#Economy

Added in the Honor points to the rewards and penalties. Thank you for catching that.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 21 August 2013 - 07:57 AM.






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