293 replies to this topic

[Mazzyplz]

Gremlich Johns, on 16 August 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

At 90m

which is a problem in frozen city for example.

[Burpitup]

MG's are still useless. once you are stripped of your armor you are not long for this world anyway. Who cares that MG's crit like crazy on non armored targets. I think small lazers are crap too but they are way better than a MG.

[DeaconW]

Mazzyplz, on 16 August 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

which is a problem in frozen city for example.

And by "problem", you mean "any mech that has the audacity to kill me", right?

[Gallowglas]

Burpitup, on 16 August 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

MG's are still useless. once you are stripped of your armor you are not long for this world anyway. Who cares that MG's crit like crazy on non armored targets. I think small lazers are crap too but they are way better than a MG.

You are on some serious drugs if you think they're useless. Alarmingly mind-altering drugs.

[Lukoi Banacek]

rdmx, on 10 August 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

- stuff mixing multiple variables (apples, oranges, pears) in order to make his point

Just curious. Is it MG's, teamwork or spiders with borked hitboxes that you're actually advocating a tweak to?

[Mazzyplz]

DeaconW, on 16 August 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

And by "problem", you mean "any mech that has the audacity to kill me", right?

if by audacity you mean kill me faster than any other jagermech build by boating machineguns then yes einstein. i don't think that's intended at all

[M0rpHeu5]

When i tested this they destroy a mech part a bit fater than the small laser and a lot slower that the medium laser so they seem ok to me.

[Rippthrough]

Mazzyplz, on 16 August 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

if by audacity you mean kill me faster than any other jagermech build by boating machineguns then yes einstein. i don't think that's intended at all

If you regularly find yourself fighting mechs optimised for short range combat at <90m on frozen, try some new tactics.

[Hotthedd]

Rippthrough, on 17 August 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

If you regularly find yourself fighting mechs optimised for short range combat at &lt;90m on frozen, try some new tactics.

A simple remedy except for 2 things. MG range has been buffed to 240m, and unfortunately people do not always get to dictate the terms of engagement.

[Mazzyplz]

except for the fact frozen city is the smallest map, and sniping is almost impossible on it.

seriously, do you hear yourself? what's that idea you have, that the game is perfect as it is? what is it you're smoking??! that's absurd.

it's ludicrous to tell players to switch up their playstyle because of a bug or bad implementation, rub your two neurons together please. the game is always changing and pgi have made about one hundred and twenty bad desicions, they had to backtrack on the lrm, the ppc. the TRIPLE nerf to SRM; YOU NAME IT.

then why when people come and ask for a little bit better balance these white knight ermagherds come out of the woodwork to tell you NO, the game is perfect. LMAO!

a whole bunch of weapons need rebalancing and i do believe machineguns are one of them.
a lot of people are quitting the game, check out mack's corner on youtube, he said he wouldn't play this game until they fixed it, and he's got some of the most epic MWO videos around-

if you want to worship pgi and the game why do you even patch the game every month, isn't it just right???
you make me laugh, kid

[DeaconW]

Mazz,

I am no white knight defending PGI (check my posts). Neither is the nerf bat my primary weapon (nor am I particularly fond of the MG)...but the MG was essentially useless before. Now it is simply viable. That's all. And all weapons having a viable role is only good for the game. It certainly isn't a problem like jedi-spider mechs, perfect convergence, jumpsniping, and the heat scale debacle. MG's are one of the things PGI seems to have done right IMO.

[Rippthrough]

Hotthedd, on 17 August 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

A simple remedy except for 2 things. MG range has been buffed to 240m, and unfortunately people do not always get to dictate the terms of engagement.

Yes, it's doing nothing at 240m, it only does full damage at 120m, and if they do not dictate the engagement, then they would loose even if you gave them 24 x ERPPC's

Mazzyplz, on 17 August 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

except for the fact frozen city is the smallest map, and sniping is almost impossible on it.

You must be really, really bad.
Frozen city is the map where when I have a sniper, and see it pop up, there's a great big neon sign in my head that goes 'WOOOHOO'

And as for this crap:

Quote

if you want to worship pgi and the game why do you even patch the game every month, isn't it just right???
you make me laugh, kid

I'm laughing my arse off here, me, a white knight? ****, are you colour blind?

Edited by Rippthrough, 17 August 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[DeaconW]

Mazzyplz, on 16 August 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

if by audacity you mean kill me faster than any other jagermech build by boating machineguns then yes einstein. i don't think that's intended at all

Nice condescension, but I'll play your silly little game. At longer range I am sure an AC40, 2xUAC5 2xAC2, or dual Gauss Jag will kill you much faster than 6xMG assuming you are starting with the same armor. It's all about tradeoffs.

[DeaconW]

Rippthrough, on 17 August 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

I'm laughing my arse off here, me, a white knight? ****, are you colour blind?

He must have signatures turned off...

[Caboose30]

I honestly believe that DHS should be buffed to keep up with MGs. Because right now with MGs you can have the only heat neutral build in the entire game. And that's what makes them just a little too much. You can only counter them with MGs, because anything else makes you overheat and then you just die faster.

[Gremlich Johns]

Even without heat, the MGs should have the chance of jamming, like any MG will during heavy usage. Right now, there is no real downside to them (taking into space and heat) other than being annoying.

[DeaconW]

Gremlich Johns, on 18 August 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Even without heat, the MGs should have the chance of jamming, like any MG will during heavy usage. Right now, there is no real downside to them (taking into space and heat) other than being annoying.

Other downsides? Let's see..

Very short range.
Stream firing (spreads out damage)
Weak damage against armor.

And being annoying is one of their virtues...especially if your opponent has a location with no armor...

[stjobe]

JuiceCaboose, on 18 August 2013 - 09:02 AM, said:

I honestly believe that DHS should be buffed to keep up with MGs. Because right now with MGs you can have the only heat neutral build in the entire game. And that's what makes them just a little too much. You can only counter them with MGs, because anything else makes you overheat and then you just die faster.

Oh come on... Another "heat neutrality is teh debul!" argument? Because the 2xPPC, 1xGR builds are really threatened by the heat-neutral MG 'mechs, right?

Gremlich Johns, on 18 August 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Even without heat, the MGs should have the chance of jamming, like any MG will during heavy usage. Right now, there is no real downside to them (taking into space and heat) other than being annoying.

No real downside? Are you mad?
* Ammo dependency, with accompanying risk of ammo explosion
* Knife-fighting range
* Spread
* 100% time-on-target requirement means you cannot twist or maneuver
* Needs armour to be breached before being really effective

Isn't that enough disadvantages already? For crying out loud, some people...

Edited by stjobe, 18 August 2013 - 09:30 AM.

[Hotthedd]

stjobe, on 18 August 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

No real downside? Are you mad?
* Ammo dependency, with accompanying risk of ammo explosion
* Knife-fighting range
* Spread
* 100% time-on-target requirement means you cannot twist or maneuver
* Needs armour to be breached before being really effective

Isn't that enough disadvantages already? For crying out loud, some people...

* ALL ballistic and missile builds need ammo. The fact that MGs need ammo is a Red Herring. But, while we are on the subject, MGs get 1000 rounds per ton. One ton of ammo can easily satisfy 2 MGs for an entire match.
* 240 meter max range (120m ideal). This makes MGs the same as EVERY OTHER light short range weapon in the game. Put this on a fast mech, and it does not even matter.
* Spread. LOL. At optimal range, the spread is minimal. (BTW, crit-seekers are SUPPOSED to have spread to increase the odds of a crit) Again, no disadvantage.
* 100% time on target. Let's see, ALL lasers NEED 100% time on target for full efficiency, however MGs can RELEASE THE TRIGGER when not on target. You only have to be on target while pulling the trigger. Need to twist/evade? No big deal, take your finger off the trigger, and no ammo will be wasted. No cooldown means you can resume firing only when the target is in the crosshairs. Nope, no disadvantage here, as a matter of fact I would call this a major advantage.
* MGs are incredibly effective at removing armor, especially in groups. 2 DPS per MG -- but wait, there is more! Since they can be continuously fired, they can do 20 DPS per MG per 10 seconds. And THAT is vs. ARMOR! Against internals it is staggeringly better.

Battletech already has several balancing factors for weapons. Tonnage, Heat, Critical slots, and Range. The MG does this damage with 0.5 tons per MG, ZERO Heat, ONE Critical space, and the Range has been buffed by a factor of 2.5!

When you see regularly MG Jagers with 5 kills and 700+ damage in a match, one can argue that MGs are "a little over the top" right now.

[Gremlich Johns]

DeaconW, on 18 August 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Other downsides? Let's see..

Very short range.
Stream firing (spreads out damage)
Weak damage against armor.

And being annoying is one of their virtues...especially if your opponent has a location with no armor...

Having fired real weapons from BBs up to 152mm gun/launchers, I'd like to expand on what you wrote. All points I do not personally consider downsides. (I eschew MG whenever possible. Which is 99% of the time.)

Very short range. Yes, too bad, we cannot have a no-heat AC/2.

Stream firing (spreads out damage) the nature of a machine gun - they are an area effect weapon, not a rifle. Ever shoot anything like that? Ever seen a .50 cal M2, 5.56mm or 7.62mm chain/mini-gun or 20mm phalanx fire? Even a video game has to have relation to real-life physics sometimes.

Weak damage against armor. Shooting MGs against an armored vehicle, besides being a waste of bullets, just serves to annoy those within said vehicle. The GAU-8 on the A-10 can chew through a certain amount of armor (usually from an overhead firing angle), helped to some degree by the nature of DU projectiles. The MW videogame MG is NOT a GAU-8.

I still think jamming should be instituted for the MGs.