293 replies to this topic

[jakucha]

FupDup, on 11 August 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

If people really must insist that MGs are "cheesy" right now, how about let's compromise by having two different manufacturers for MGs?

Basically, one model (perhaps "Scattergun Light") would be low damage, high-crit sort of like what PGI is fixated on right now. This model would probably end up doing less direct damage than what we have now, but would be better for those who think crit seeking is useful.

The second model ("Gatling Gun 20mm" or something like that), though, would be high damage (and no CoF) and would never deal critical hits. Ever. This model is designed to suit people who like weapons that kill robots (particularly those with armor still on).

We need side-grade manufacturers for every weapon, similar to how Mechwarrior Tactics does it. Would add a lot to the game.

[D A T A]

mg are overpowered, consider a jager dd with 5 mgs, 2 ppc 1 gauss............ OVERPOWERED, 2 ac 20 suck if compared to this
laser mechs like ctf 1x suffer too much for the disgusting drawback they are doing for ppc, mg need to weight 1 and not 0.5

[Foxfire]

They are useful now.. which is a good thing.

This is a very important thing when you consider light mechs with heavy ballistic reliance.

[verybad]

FupDup, on 10 August 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Every time somebody says Battlemech Machine Guns are anti-infantry or 50 caliber, Kerensky kills a kitten.

Good.


Battlemech Machine Guns are anti-infantry or 50 caliber

Edited by verybad, 11 August 2013 - 10:31 AM.

[General Taskeen]

verybad, on 11 August 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Battlemech Machine Guns are anti-infantry or 50 caliber

Care to back that up? Yeah, you can't.

As stated before, a anti-infantry .50 caliber "MG" in Battle Tech is this: http://www.sarna.net...ort_Machine_Gun & http://www.sarna.net...Battle_Armor%29

You can't change facts, so get over it.

Edited by General Taskeen, 11 August 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[stjobe]

Mizore, on 11 August 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Pure theory craft... you have to find mechs where the torso armor is gone, you have to get within a range of ~90m and you have to uphold a constant fire.

Now take a Spider 5K and try this on the battlefield by yourself... oh and have fun getting killed despite the messed up hitboxes

You think I haven't? I've been fighting for a viable MG since closed beta, every patch that has a MG change I drop in my 5K to see if they're finally viable. And after last week's patch they are. Here's what I usually do:

If I can't find an enemy with breached armour, I use my LL to breach a location. Once that is done I stop using the LL and trigger the MGs. This has historically meant that I stop doing damage - but in the very first drop I did after the last patch, it got me three kills - all of them by MG only, all of them on targets not engaged by anyone else.

Since the patch my kills/match ratio in the 5K is sky-rocketing.

Edited by stjobe, 11 August 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

General Taskeen, on 11 August 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Care to back that up? Yeah, you can't.

As stated before, a anti-infantry .50 caliber "MG" in Battle Tech is this: http://www.sarna.net...ort_Machine_Gun & http://www.sarna.net...Battle_Armor%29

You can't change facts, so get over it.

I don't think you got the point of his post. Did you miss the giant picture of a gun pointed at a kitten?

[ManDaisy]

Machine guns are finally useful. Anything that is useful is cheese am I right? Anyways I think this recent patch finally does justice to the table top to mwo machine gun conversion.

Edited by ManDaisy, 11 August 2013 - 12:03 PM.

[Team Leader]

They should only let machine guns and flamers do this

[ManDaisy]

bad suggestion, as the new mechanic is a way of having engine and gyro criticals actually amount to something, namely the mech dying faster.

[Royalewithcheese]

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 11 August 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

mg are overpowered, consider a jager dd with 5 mgs, 2 ppc 1 gauss............ OVERPOWERED, 2 ac 20 suck if compared to this

Seems worth trying out. However, here's the issue with PPC/Gauss Jagers - they do work, but:
A ) Hip-mounted PPCs drag everything that isn't a Firebrand down because Jagermechs need to ridgehump.
B ) Cataphract 3D is better. Machine guns help a Gauss/PPC build a tiny bit, JumpJets + 5 extra tons to play with help it a lot more.

The Jagerbomb (sort of) works because it plays to two of the chassis' strengths: that it can do 80-90, and that it has high arm-mounted ballistic slots. All your guns are good in the same situation, because you generally only have two of them and they're the same gun. This lets you do things like find an Atlas and position yourself such that your arm-mounted guns can hit and its torso-mounted guns can't, or pop your head up, punish an opposing sniper for having their head up to the tune of ~30, and pop your head down.

On the other hand, some sort of Gauss/MG/PPC build runs into issues where some guns want it to be at long range, some guns want it to be short range, some guns want it to be alpha-twisting, other guns want it to be DPSing, some guns want it to be hull-down, other guns want it to be hull-up, and so on. Most of the builds that get called "OP" have synergies that this one doesn't have.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 11 August 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[BlackIronTarkus]

This thread is an aberation.

MGs used to be useless. Now they have a role which is to quickly destroy a armor stipped enemy. The enemy mech need two attain two critera to be destroyed from MGs, first one is that they need to be stripped of armor and second one is that need to be close to the MG.

Thats perfectly balanced.

Plus the OP used 4 MGs in his video, not many mechs are capable of fielding that many MGs, its not like its rampant unlike PPCs before the heat nerf.

Instead of making MGs do just as every other weapons do in this game, the developers decided to make them fill a role that had yet to be filled, and now you cry?

[verybad]

General Taskeen, on 11 August 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Care to back that up? Yeah, you can't.

As stated before, a anti-infantry .50 caliber "MG" in Battle Tech is this: http://www.sarna.net...ort_Machine_Gun & http://www.sarna.net...Battle_Armor%29

You can't change facts, so get over it.

ORLY?
"Machine GunsThough rarely carried by BattleMechs, the high rate of fire produced by machine guns makes them excellent anti-infantry weapons. There are Heavy and Light machine guns."
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=197
Mine is better than Sarna also.

Edited by verybad, 11 August 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[Team Leader]

ManDaisy, on 11 August 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

bad suggestion, as the new mechanic is a way of having engine and gyro criticals actually amount to something, namely the mech dying faster.

was this directed to me? it must be because i was the only poster between your posts. if this only effected the engine that would be one thing but it effects every internal section of the mech does it not? These are not gyro engine or actuator crits that change anything it is just you dying quicker which is... bad

[Mizore]

verybad, on 11 August 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

ORLY?
"Machine GunsThough rarely carried by BattleMechs, the high rate of fire produced by machine guns makes them excellent anti-infantry weapons. There are Heavy and Light machine guns."
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=197
Mine is better than Sarna also.

Yo Bro, that doesn't mean that MGs suck against Battlemechs... there's stated that they're also good against Infantery, not that they are only good against Infantery!

[Pinselborste]

they are fine currently, but sometimes it seems the new crit system bugs out, killed people with full internals on ct with single medlaser hits and so on.

when i think about the bt machinegun, i think about something like this:

http://youtu.be/CCARe8Kn4_c?t=1m19s


[color=#333333][/color][color=#333333]PS:To oppose us is blasphemy [/color]

[Devils Advocate]

General Taskeen, on 10 August 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

OP.

Nobody EVER asked for a CRIT buff to the MG.

Maybe you haven't been lurking as long as I have but people have been asking for a crit bonus since crits were introduced to the game. Machineguns were used in tabletop more often for chances to score critical hits than for raw damage against other mechs and a large portion of the community wanted to reflect this rather than to just make machineguns a ballistic laser. Now we've got it and it's definitely not the close-range AC2 they had in tabletop but it's not a small laser like the rest of the community wanted either.

[Foxfire]

Crit seeking is exactly what people have been asking for with MG's..

That is the entire practical point of the weapon.

[verybad]

Mizore, on 11 August 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Yo Bro, that doesn't mean that MGs suck against Battlemechs... there's stated that they're also good against Infantery, not that they are only good against Infantery!

They do suck against mechs in Battletech also. Sure, if you have ten or more they can do some damage, but SRMs are way better ton for ton in any case. They far better against infantry than mechs in btech.. You can invent whatever size for them you want, but fact of the matter is that in btech, they're not good against mechs because 1. their range, and 2 their low damage, (and 3 their ammo bomb) Can you use them in battletech? Sure, you can also use squirt guns (fluid gun) to shot acid at mechs. Doesn't mean they're effect.

I'm fine with them as they are, but people seem to like inventing their own background for machine guns based on real life, and battletech isn't real life, or anywhere close. Machine guns in battletech don't have the effectiveness against armor that the GAU-8 Avenger has in modern times. Doesn't matter that it weighs 0.5 tons, It's by far an anti-infantry gun with some (low) capabilities against armored units.

[One Medic Army]

1SRM2: 2 2dmg projectiles
2MGs: 2 2dmg projectiles

SRM ammo: 100 per ton
MG ammo: 400 per ton

SRM heat: 1 per 2tubes+1
MG heat: 0

SRM range: 3/6/9
MG range: 1/2/3

SRM vs infantry: 1 per missile
MG per infantry: 2d6 per MG

It's not like SRMs completely outclass MGs, they're roughly equivalent to an equivalent number of SRM tubes trading off range for heat/ammo capacity/anti-infantry bonus

Edited by One Medic Army, 11 August 2013 - 04:56 PM.