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Sorry, Yet Another Cbill Topic - Sort Of


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#1 Larius

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 10:20 AM

This isn't just about the recent Cbill nerf, but about the current system in general. My intention is not to give PGI crap but rather give voice to my concerns as to the future of MWO - a game I wish to succeed.

Cross post from reddit:
A successful f2p game needs to be fun without the cash shop. When players have fun they tend to be more interested in pimping out their characters/heroes/mechs with real money customization options. What's fun in MWO? Ability to purchase new mechs and to adjust loadouts. Is it possible to play MWO without spending money for someone who can spend 2 hours each day at most? No. 2 hours a day = around 1.2 million cbills per day. At this speed it takes about one week to purchase a new mech and then 3-4 days to p1mp it out with upgrades. I guess with premium time it will take about one week to achieve that.

Does that sound fun? It sure as hell doesn't for me. On top of that the system that PGI created requires you to buy same mech three times in other to achieve maximum proficiency. Is forcing players to grind out money and xp for (often) same mech three times sound like fun? No it does not.

And then also come the modules, which are a huge entry level barrier for new players. To support all types of mechs you need 6 modules, of which one costs 2 milion, one 4, and four cost 6 mil. And quite honestly, the way it's bothersome to change modules around you kinda want multiple amounts of each.

To absolutely master a mech and reach maximum potential, for a new player, it takes around: 15 million for mech, another 15 million to purchase the other two variants (and grinding them out without considerable upgrades, which is not a very fun experience) and purchase three modules which I will price at 16 million (seismic + target retention + target info gathering seem like a very reasonable all-round package). In total 46 million cbills - that's how much you need to be on par with 'the big boys'. If you purchase premium time and are somewhat skilled, at 2 hours per day, it would take around 23 days to get the required cbills. (counting 2 millions per day)

And lets not forget that there is no way to test out mechs, not only in their stock version (unless you become very lucky with trial mechs, but they change only once a month) but also with the desired loadout. This very often, at least in my experience, leads to dissatisfaction with the hard earned purchase. Too often have I grinded out money for a new mech, p1mp it out only to find out that this is not what I wanted - massive amount of time wasted.

To sum it up, PGI, you're doing it wrong. Your monetization system allows only select few to have fun without investing money, and quite honestly with how overpriced the standard chassis are, it's considerable money (MC to Cbill ratio is abysmal). If you compare it to LoL: a new champion costs 5.81 euro/7.50 dollars - it's a complete package, you don't need to customize it with additional purchases and you don't need additional champions to unlock this ones full potential. Now lets compare it to MWO: new mech bay 1.38$, around 11.04$ for the mech (1.84$ per 1 million, I estimated the value at 6 million). So we're at 12.88$ and the mech can only reach basic skills, yay! So let's add two more variants, let's see how much it costs to unlock the full potential of one chassis. Another 22.08$ (grinding out on two completely stock chassis at 6 million each) plus 2.76$ for mech bays. In total 37.72$. THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE UPGRADES, MODULES AND WEAPONS that you still need cbills for (26millions, so with the previously mentioned rates - 13 days of gameplay with premium). Isn't almost 40$ a bit darn much for three versions of the same mech? I can have a full AAA title on steam for that money.

This concludes my rant, Larius - veteran founder.

*MC to dollar ratios taken from this article, because I'm a bit lazy, sorry B)
*the word "p i m p" seems to be censored, sorry, used it two or three times in this post, spelled it with 1 instead of 'i' to avoid it

Edited by Larius, 12 August 2013 - 10:33 AM.


#2 Maarve

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:39 AM

For me it makes more sence to play multiple accounts and use the cbill boost to create a few 1 mech accounts than grind out 100k per game for the next 30 - 100+ games per mech . New players cant get in to the game and experiment with build without doing this or droping ridiculous amounts of cash on the game .

I guess people with the same attitude as me will be throwing the numbers of new player's actualy playing the game in the future .

Also ive seen it mentioned that the pgi staff have played and think the new cbill is fine ?

I wonder if they were using trial mechs like a new player would , running out of ammo in every 12 vs 12 match in the badly spec'd default mechs ... I dout it .

#3 M0rpHeu5

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:27 PM

You are absolutly right, A F2P game HAVE TO be fun for the free players.
Take me for example, when they removed the repair and rearm i felt like making CB, so I bought MC to buy mech bays and store my new mechs.
I've been playing more since then and i bought more MCs

Edited by M0rpHeu5, 12 August 2013 - 01:28 PM.


#4 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:37 PM

There is but one answer to use which will inform PGI that they are not cutting it

Boycott the game for 2 weeks. This will affect their revenue stream and they WILL notice that. Since PGi tends to not really read the forums in depth, coordinating a boycott will be easy to accomplish.

#5 mafian911

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:18 PM

OP, you hit the nail on the head. Very well said. I don't mind spending money on this game, I WANT to spend money. But before I can do that, I want the game to be fun before I open up my wallet. I want the game to be fun without me having to spend extra cash. Only then will I want to enhance that fun by spending additional dollars.

The grind is miserable. It's not fun. And like you said, spending all that cash only to discover a mech you don't really like is very defeating and frustrating. I've done that twice. C-Bills and MC wasted. The feeling you are left with after that makes it hard to open up the game again the next day.

If I could play a new mech more often and actually be competitive with it, or be able to progress with it, it would be a different story. If the amount of time it took to try out new mechs with different loadouts (this being the important bit you dont get with trial mechs) were reduced, then the grind wouldn't feel so miserable. The game would be fun again. I've been playing Jenners for as long as I can remember now. I really want to try something different, but it takes WEEKs to buy another chassis along with the upgrades. And yes, you have to get the upgrades. You wont know if you will fully enjoy the mech until it is sufficiently upgraded. Discovering you don't like the playstyle of that mech after all that makes me want to bang my head on my keyboard.

Another point I agree with is that buying mechs for cash is TOO EXPENSIVE. I count every $60 as a triple-A title purchase, and $60 barely gets you anywhere when it comes to mastering a new mech. How many mechs are in this game? A crap ton. Like OP said, if I want 3 mechs so I can progress past basic skills, I'm quickly approaching the price of another full triple-A title. That is plumb ridiculous.

#6 Lunatic_Asylum

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:54 PM

The recent change is fun! I like it.

#7 Masterrix

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:45 AM

completely agree !

+1 topic

PGI's price model is sucking hard

Edited by Masterrix, 13 August 2013 - 12:47 AM.


#8 JeffGoldblum

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:50 AM

View Postlunticasylum, on 12 August 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

The recent change is fun! I like it.


And how is it fun exactly? I fail to see how making less C-bills is fun, unless you are a ********* of course.

#9 M0rpHeu5

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:50 AM

View Postlunticasylum, on 12 August 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

The recent change is fun! I like it.

FUN????? I undertand that some people say that it feels right and the hardcore BT funs who beleave that every other moon eclipse night you must see an atlas but FUN??REALLY??

Edited by M0rpHeu5, 13 August 2013 - 12:51 AM.


#10 JeffGoldblum

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:51 AM

View PostJeffGoldblum, on 13 August 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:


And how is it fun exactly? I fail to see how making less C-bills is fun, unless you are a ********* of course.


Mass-oh-chist

#11 Josef Koba

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 11:59 AM

Couldn't agree more. I've spent plenty of real cash on F2P games that are fun. I am loathe to count up the money I've spent on SWTOR, for example. And until recently, I was dropping a pretty impressive stream of cash on this game, even purchasing the $80 Phoenix package. I'm slowly thinking that I might regret that purchase. The state of the game has migrated and I don't enjoy it as much. Some fixes were necessary whereas others seem arbitrary. Meh, Rome 2 comes out in a couple of weeks, and that will monopolize the heck out of my time.

#12 Karl Split

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:12 PM

You can reuse the engines and weapons between mechs to try and reduce the grind, but yes I find the grind in mwo very, very tedious and I tend to take breaks for a few weeks every so often because lvling some mechs up is like torture.

#13 Mad Elf

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:39 PM

Reusing weapons, engines and modules would be a lot easier (more fun) if there was some mechanism to save builds and rebuild them with a couple of clicks.

But then you wouldn't need to spend money on copies of modules etc., so PGI won't give you that interface...





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