63 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

One Medic Army, on 13 August 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

In battletech you're either in an RPG setting, where your GM's job is partially to prevent you from getting 1-shot, or you're playing an entire side where it doesn't matter if a single 1 of your mechs dies in 1shot.

In BattleTech you are nowhere near RPGing. Often part of a team v team match, may or may not have more than one Mech. An the GM does not try to get you out of being Head capped i he is worth his salt.

Back in the day (12 years ago) I entered into a Bloodname tournament. One of the participants was a 11-12 year old boy. First turn first shot, Gauss to the Head. He put his stuff away an watched the remainder of the Match. My daughter won the Kerensky name that day... also by Head Shot!

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 13 August 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

This isnt tabletop... you dont need a 10+ to hit a light mech with an AC/20 in the first place and then have maybe a 1/3 chance of hitting one of the locations that will instakill it.(1)

In MWO you can automatically hit wherever you want if your aim is good. Precise aiming makes weapons considerably more lethal, which is why pinpoint alphas are such a huge problem.(2) Although if we had a proper respawn gamemode then it wouldnt be nearly as much of a problem.(3)



Not if your mech stays locked in the match for 10 minutes after you die. Thats not fun for new players. Thats why we should just have respawns. That keeps everyone involved in the game and there is no real downside to it since we could still have hardcore mode for players who want to play without respawns.

I just have to disagree with all of this.
1)I don't waste my AC20 ammo on a to hit over 8.

2)Those are the breaks of playing a real time shooter AFAIK. Accept it or move on.

3)Respawn is for chumps. If you cannot deal with dying in a game, you should not be playing. All my decades of gaming I have used respawn exactly twice. During Neverwinter Online cause I wanted to see what it was. It was the dumbest mechanic I ever experienced. Totally Chuck E Cheese level gaming.

[Braggart]

pinpoint, or instant pinpoint?

2 different things that make a huge difference.

the ability to delivery XX damage instantly to a spot will always be superior to delivering same or near same amount of damage to a spot over a second, which will most likely end up spread over a mech.

PGI did the right thing by giving lasers a duration, but they failed to realize that it would simply shift the meta to other instant damage weapons. Which they should have realized.

Autocannons should be burst fire. burst duration is .4 seconds, and it has a minor randomness, but not enough to cause shots to miss, just spread perhaps to another spot at longer ranges. and PPCs should be mostly splashing damage around.

Alpha warrior is the worst thing about this game, and that is simply because pinpoint instant damage is far superior to any other kind of combat in this game.

Edited by Braggart, 14 August 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[Training Instructor]

Heh, anyone who has played even a couple of 8 or 12 mans knows how frakkin terrified teams are of being the first guy around a corner, due to being...ding, ding, ding, insta-gibbed by accurate insta-converged focus fire from Gauss/PPC/AC20.

As far as talking about lore and stuff goes: having read a ton of the battletech novels, and played tabletop quite extensively, there were plenty of scenarios of focused fire, but very, very few scenarios of a company worth of mechs loaded out with ppcs, gauss, and ac20s waiting in a firing line and CT coring every guy who dared to show up to the fight.

[Trauglodyte]

3rdworld, on 13 August 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

Heres a fun fact.

A Battletech AC/20 would do 20 damage with non buffed armor values.

The same AC/20 to do the same amount of damage would need to hit for 40 in MWO.

I agree. BUT, if you're going to bring TT into the discussion here, then you need to acknowledge that, under certain circumstances, landing that AC20 was damned near impossible. In TT, you got penalized for:

• your movement
  
• your target's range of movement
  
• your range to target
  
• terrain between you and your target
  
• pilot skill
  
• damage done to the pilot
  
• current heat levels

In MW:O, you put your cross hairs on a target and pull the trigger. One is not like the other.

[Braggart]

Trauglodyte, on 14 August 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

I agree. BUT, if you're going to bring TT into the discussion here, then you need to acknowledge that, under certain circumstances, landing that AC20 was damned near impossible. In TT, you got penalized for:

• your movement
  
• your target's range of movement
  
• your range to target
  
• terrain between you and your target
  
• pilot skill
  
• damage done to the pilot
  
• current heat levels

In MW:O, you put your cross hairs on a target and pull the trigger. One is not like the other.

lets not forget that you can fire more often in MWO than you got to fire in TT.

[3rdworld]

Trauglodyte, on 14 August 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

I agree. BUT, if you're going to bring TT into the discussion here, then you need to acknowledge that, under certain circumstances, landing that AC20 was damned near impossible. In TT, you got penalized for:

• your movement
  
• your target's range of movement
  
• your range to target
  
• terrain between you and your target
  
• pilot skill
  
• damage done to the pilot
  
• current heat levels

In MW:O, you put your cross hairs on a target and pull the trigger. One is not like the other.

Other than damage done to pilot and heat levels the rest apply to MWO as well.

[Lightfoot]

Been Beta Testing for 14 months. Never asked for any Nerf. I did ask why MWO's mechs were so weak compared to previous MechWarrior games that had DHS 2.0 and no Heat Scale penalty and unlimited group-fire. That's what you should be asking too.

Nerf Inner Sphere tech any more and no one will play the faction when the Clan Invasion starts. I can think of several Clan tech builds that will work just fine with all the present nerfs while packing 50-60 damage group-fire and 100 point alpha-strikes. IS Mechs need to toughen up. Better start working on it. Time is short.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lightfoot, on 14 August 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Been Beta Testing for 14 months. Never asked for any Nerf. I did ask why MWO's mechs were so weak compared to previous MechWarrior games that had DHS 2.0 and no Heat Scale penalty and unlimited group-fire. That's what you should be asking too.

Nerf Inner Sphere tech any more and no one will play the faction when the Clan Invasion starts. I can think of several Clan tech builds that will work just fine with all the present nerfs while packing 50-60 damage group-fire and 100 point alpha-strikes. IS Mechs need to toughen up. Better start working on it. Time is short.

Thank goodness someone else gets it! I don't want to be throwing pillows at the Clans, I need effective weapons.

[Braggart]

Lightfoot, on 14 August 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Been Beta Testing for 14 months. Never asked for any Nerf. I did ask why MWO's mechs were so weak compared to previous MechWarrior games that had DHS 2.0 and no Heat Scale penalty and unlimited group-fire. That's what you should be asking too.

Nerf Inner Sphere tech any more and no one will play the faction when the Clan Invasion starts. I can think of several Clan tech builds that will work just fine with all the present nerfs while packing 50-60 damage group-fire and 100 point alpha-strikes. IS Mechs need to toughen up. Better start working on it. Time is short.

you mean back in netmech and mercs where you had to lead your targets by 2-4 mech lengths to hit and had 0 convergence. How about mw3 where the game was you took a shadow cat and 16 small lasers and first one to manage a leg shot beat the opponent? How about mw4, where it was all about maximum damage.

Convergence ruined mw3, and mw4. MW4 was saved by stock mode though, because it allowed mechs to have various roles and play to them. Mechs havent been durable since mw2.

[One Medic Army]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 August 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Thank goodness someone else gets it! I don't want to be throwing pillows at the Clans, I need effective weapons.

A: We don't even know how PGI is going to match IS vs Clan, is it going to be 12v10? Is it going to be 8v5? Is the IS going to get a tonnage boost?

B: Clans are kinda shafted by the current weapon mechanics, they only get ER and Pulse laser weapons (the crappy versions) and they only get LBX and Ultra autocannons (Either crap or jam-tastic). The only weapons they get which will currently not be meh at best are their ERPPCs and Gauss rifles (Yeah.........)

C: Don't forget that Clans run at much higher heat values, and are also going to be shafted more than IS by "double" heatsinks being 1.4s

D: Then there's the hitboxes and weapon placement on clan mechs. Lots of them are going to have bad hitboxes, and more of them will be entirely reliant on arm weapons which can be shot off relatively easily (and limited arm crits will limit boating of the largest weapons).

[Joseph Mallan]

Braggart, on 14 August 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

you mean back in netmech and mercs where you had to lead your targets by 2-4 mech lengths to hit and had 0 convergence. How about mw3 where the game was you took a shadow cat and 16 small lasers and first one to manage a leg shot beat the opponent? How about mw4, where it was all about maximum damage.

Convergence ruined mw3, and mw4. MW4 was saved by stock mode though, because it allowed mechs to have various roles and play to them. Mechs havent been durable since mw2.

Mechs haven't been durable ever. 10 Turns would be less than 2 minutes in MWO. Perception is everything.

[Braggart]

One Medic Army, on 14 August 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

A: We don't even know how PGI is going to match IS vs Clan, is it going to be 12v10? Is it going to be 8v5? Is the IS going to get a tonnage boost?

B: Clans are kinda shafted by the current weapon mechanics, they only get ER and Pulse laser weapons (the crappy versions) and they only get LBX and Ultra autocannons (Either crap or jam-tastic). The only weapons they get which will currently not be meh at best are their ERPPCs and Gauss rifles (Yeah.........)

C: Don't forget that Clans run at much higher heat values, and are also going to be shafted more than IS by "double" heatsinks being 1.4s

D: Then there's the hitboxes and weapon placement on clan mechs. Lots of them are going to have bad hitboxes, and more of them will be entirely reliant on arm weapons which can be shot off relatively easily (and limited arm crits will limit boating of the largest weapons).

a clan medium ER laser is equal to a inner sphere large laser.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Large_laser
Heat 8
Damage 8
Short Range 1-5
Medium Range 6-10
Long Range 11-15
Tons 5
Critical Slots 2
http://www.sarna.net...ER_Medium_Laser
Heat 5
Damage Clan = 7
Short Range Clan = 1-5
Medium Range Clan = 6-10
Long Range Clan = 11-15
Tons 1
Critical Slots 1

Edited by Braggart, 14 August 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Braggart, on 14 August 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

a clan medium ER laser is equal to a inner sphere large laser.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Large_laser
Heat 8 Damage 8 Minimum Range n/a Short Range 1-5 Medium Range 6-10 Long Range 11-15 Tons 5 Critical Slots 2
http://www.sarna.net...ER_Medium_Laser Heat 5 Damage Clan = 7
IS = 5 Minimum Range n/a Short Range Clan = 1-5
IS = 1-4 Medium Range Clan = 6-10
IS = 5-8 Long Range Clan = 11-15
IS = 9-12 Tons 1 Critical Slots 1

So a Clan ERML is going to be 7damage, probably 6-7 heat, and 1crit/1ton with LargeLaser ranges.

I am so not scared at all.

[Joseph Mallan]

One Medic Army, on 14 August 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

A: We don't even know how PGI is going to match IS vs Clan, is it going to be 12v10? Is it going to be 8v5? Is the IS going to get a tonnage boost?

B: Clans are kinda shafted by the current weapon mechanics, they only get ER and Pulse laser weapons (the crappy versions) and they only get LBX and Ultra autocannons (Either crap or jam-tastic). The only weapons they get which will currently not be meh at best are their ERPPCs and Gauss rifles (Yeah.........)

C: Don't forget that Clans run at much higher heat values, and are also going to be shafted more than IS by "double" heatsinks being 1.4s

D: Then there's the hitboxes and weapon placement on clan mechs. Lots of them are going to have bad hitboxes, and more of them will be entirely reliant on arm weapons which can be shot off relatively easily (and limited arm crits will limit boating of the largest weapons).

Don't forget those are only if Clanners run Stock Omnis... I don't see that happening. Clan Large Pulse are as powerful as a IS PPC. Medium Pulse as good as a Large laser. LB-X Cannons are crap thanks to nobody giving them slugs as the were meant to have. Ultra5s are an OK weapon to my observation, imagine Ultra 10s or worse Ultra 20s OUCH!!

LRMs with no Minimum range and half as heavy... Yeah... playing a clanner will so suck

[One Medic Army]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 August 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Don't forget those are only if Clanners run Stock Omnis... I don't see that happening. Clan Large Pulse are as powerful as a IS PPC. Medium Pulse as good as a Large laser. LB-X Cannons are crap thanks to nobody giving them slugs as the were meant to have. Ultra5s are an OK weapon to my observation, imagine Ultra 10s or worse Ultra 20s OUCH!!

LRMs with no Minimum range and half as heavy... Yeah... playing a clanner will so suck

I seem to recall Clan mechs not getting Artemis.
Yes, that LRM20 will suddenly become a sandblaster, rather than a CT-coring machine.
(Don't get me started on how stupid the current LRM mechanics are...)

[Braggart]

One Medic Army, on 14 August 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

I seem to recall Clan mechs not getting Artemis.
Yes, that LRM20 will suddenly become a sandblaster, rather than a CT-coring machine.
(Don't get me started on how stupid the current LRM mechanics are...)

how do you miss with 120 lrms from 90 meters?

[Joseph Mallan]

Braggart, on 14 August 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

how do you miss with 120 lrms from 90 meters?

Missiles On-Board tracking system has not engaged???

[One Medic Army]

Braggart, on 14 August 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

how do you miss with 120 lrms from 90 meters?

The patterning on LRM20s, without artemis or TAG, is so large that it will hit every location on an atlas rather than seeking CT (at least last I checked).
Last I checked, the name of the game is maximum CT damage, not sandblast all their armor off.

[Joseph Mallan]

One Medic Army, on 14 August 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

I seem to recall Clan mechs not getting Artemis.
Yes, that LRM20 will suddenly become a sandblaster, rather than a CT-coring machine.
(Don't get me started on how stupid the current LRM mechanics are...)

I think I could match you gripe for gripe on LRMs