255 replies to this topic

[Anders]

#saveMWO Community Town Hall #2

The discussioning thread

The second thread is now live The Town Hall, The Letter, Mecha Lingua, and all things #saveMWO.

Official Links

• The Town Hall audio stream
  
• The Letter (Sign it!)
  
• The Signatures (so far!)
  
• The original thread (for reference)
  
• The second Thread (also for reference)

More Content!

• The Start of the Twitter recap by MWO ComStar

Please keep things civil and bad posts to a minimum. For the sake of the sanity of the mods, if for nothing else


UPDATE:

In addition to having more individuals signing the letter, we now have 26 groups signed up, some of them representing the largest organized groups currently playing MWO. These groups represent a little over 5000 players (I'm missing good unit counts on some of them, which I've left blank until I can confirm them. In the meantime, I've counted them based on my most recent available information):

EDIT: Unit leads, PM me if you want to be added to this list or if you have a correction/addition to your unit count.
Community Members (click to view signatures - 1045 as of 8/14/13 @ 12:12 AM EDT)
PM Anders on the MWO forums if you are a unit or community leader and want to sign on behalf of your group.

In addition, the below 26 groups have signed, representing over 5000 MWO players

• Victor Morson, on behalf of the Blazing Aces (~40 members)
  
• Miekael, on behalf of The Fallen (~10 members)
  
• Lord Ikka, on behalf of the 9th Sword of the Dragon (~100 members)
  
• Stingr4y, on behalf of FWLM (~200 members)
  
• JSArrakis, on behalf of cReddit (~200 members)
  
• Anders, on behalf of the Word of Lowtax (~1500 members)
  
• MausGMR, on behalf of Clan Smoke Jaguar - Beta Galaxy (~20 members)
  
• jrgong, on behalf of the 25th Marik Militia
  
• GaussDragon, on behalf of KaoS Legion (~50 members)
  
• Stalephreak, on behalf of Zero Fox Mercs (~10 members)
  
• Durkan and Kerbango, on behalf of Last Mech Standing (~1000 players)
  
• Protection and Hylius, on behalf of Eridani Light Pony Merc Corp (~200 members)
  
• G.L. von Bluecher, on behalf of the 1st Royal Guards (~200 members)
  
• Aylward, on behalf of the 1st HeadHunters of Davion RCT (~500 members)
  
• EndGam8968, on behalf of the Omega Defense Corps
  
• Otonashi Saya, on behalf of Ryuken-Ni-Sorei
  
• Wolfp, on behalf of ZhiZhu Merc Corps (~80 members)
  
• DV McKenna, on behalf of Clan Snow Raven
  
• DrAmnesia, on behalf of the MWO Arena League (~150 players)
  
• Wild Hog, on behalf of the 6th RCT
  
• Bluemaxx, on behalf of ARMD (~400 members)
  
• Trev Firestorm, on behalf of Thunder Mountain Forces (~10 members)
  
• GMan129, on behalf of Cerberus
  
• FileTitan, on behalf of the Ghost Warriors Brigade
  
• Drangon Lee, on behalf of the Confrerie Black Dragon (~20 members)
  
• DCM Zeus, on behalf of the Luna Wolves (~100 members)
  
• DLS, on behalf of Bnl Merc Corps
  
• Gremlich Johns, on behalf of the Blood Spirits
  
• Team Leader, on behalf of the Heavy Metal Brigade (~80 members)

As always I remain:

Robotically Yours,
Anders

Edited by Anders, 13 August 2013 - 08:28 PM.

[Deadfire]

The live stream with No Commentary: http://www.twitch.tv...remwo/c/2747798

Youtube link:




Youtube MP4 link : http://www.youtube.com/download_my_video?v=Yb1mvpog02k&t=CTdvlxPbLPlgkdovjiFgvOELaKJ8MTM3NjU0Mzc4NEAxMzc2NDU3Mzg0

Edited by Deadfire, 13 August 2013 - 09:16 PM.

[Chronojam]

Thanks to everybody who showed up to represent casual players or groups of every sort. Things went a lot more smoothly this time, and it's a shorter listen with some really great responses.

[Miekael]

Thanks again to WoL for hosting the event.

[Allen Wren]

OFFICIAL AUDIO RECORDING:
http://soundcloud.co...hall-number-two

[Varrin Coursca]

Thanks for hosting this again guys. I plan to get on MechaLingua to continue the conversation if you'll have me.

[Chronojam]

Varrin Coursca, on 13 August 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

Thanks for hosting this again guys. I plan to get on MechaLingua to continue the conversation if you'll have me.

Of course. We have a few topics we'd like to follow up on.

[Sybreed]

ah, wasn't aware there was a second meeting today. If anyone has time to spare and post a general consensus on what was said, t'would be appreciated. I understand it's a lot of effort... in any case I'll try and listen to this later this week.

[Windies]

You know whats sad, I listen to this community town hall recording and literally the idea's being bounced around actually make me optimistic about the future of MW:O and game balance because it's people who actually understand WTF is going on insofar as balance in the meta. I go and read an Ask the Dev's or a twitter post of a developer and I just want to /wrists and they just depress me because it shows how far out of touch with the community PGI is and how far down the #BlackHole they are going.

I don't know what else to say except that PGI is just plain idiotic for not listening to these because this is some serious good feedback.

[101011]

I honestly didn't even know there was a second one. I'll listen to the recording when I get the time.

[Big Giant Head]

This pushed me to try MW:LL

[Deathz Jester]

its pretty pathetic that a bunch of people [us] in their free time not being paid to care about this game come up with better ideas than the company developing the game. sort of makes you question their [PGI] supposed "passion" for the IP.

Big Giant Head, on 13 August 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

This pushed me to try MW:LL

and sadly that game died due to redundancy, although alot of things done in that game could benefit this game.

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 13 August 2013 - 10:08 PM.

[Windies]

I'm up for trying MW:LL, I ended up buying crysis wars during a steam sale to give it a go but ended up never getting around to it.

Iron Harlequin, on 13 August 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

its pretty pathetic that a bunch of people [us] in their free time not being paid to care about this game come up with better ideas than the company developing the game. sort of makes you question their [PGI] supposed "passion" for the IP.




and sadly that game died due to redundancy, although alot of things done in that game could benefit this game.

Frankly, I'm firmly convinced that they really don't have a passion for Battletech or Mechwarrior, or at least the people in charge don't have a passion for Battletech/Mechwarrior. Having some miniature's on your desk is not synonymous of passion for something. Passion for something shows through your work and through your communication. What I feel is that PGI has a passion for money, saw Battletech/Mechwarrior as a cash cow IP and are now regretting ever picking it because the fanbase didn't roll over and open their wallets quite as easily as they had hoped now that it's come time for them to really deliver.

Even if that's true, they still have the ability to fix it and still make a great Mechwarrior game. The problem is that they have no effing clue how to do that, and the most blatantly obvious resource they have at their disposal that has more vested interest and more experience with Battletech is this god damned community. They need to listen to this community, not blindly implement every single suggestion, but really listen to this community and instead of cherry picking answers out of ask the Devs to disappoint us every week or two weeks, start cherry picking the best feedback out of this community and implementing that.

[Stormwolf]

Windies, on 13 August 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

Frankly, I'm firmly convinced that they really don't have a passion for Battletech or Mechwarrior, or at least the people in charge don't have a passion for Battletech/Mechwarrior.

Yeah, it's simply not there, just compare them to other games that have recently gotten funded with kickstarters:

War for the Overworld: Created by Dungeon Keeper fans for Dungeon Keeper fans, I've posted on their boards and these people nice and open for suggestions. Even Peter Molyneux has given them his blessing.

Star Citizen and Shroud of the Avatar: Created by the guys who created Wing Commander and Ultima respectively, these guys are actively asking people for designs and features they want to see. Some creature/object designs for Shroud of the Avatar are already being implemented as we speak.

You can really see the passion these people have for their games and they are really putting in a lot of effort.

I really don't get that vibe from PGI though.

[Windies]

Stormwolf, on 14 August 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

Yeah, it's simply not there, just compare them to other games that have recently gotten funded with kickstarters:

War for the Overworld: Created by Dungeon Keeper fans for Dungeon Keeper fans, I've posted on their boards and these people nice and open for suggestions. Even Peter Molyneux has given them his blessing.

Star Citizen and Shroud of the Avatar: Created by the guys who created Wing Commander and Ultima respectively, these guys are actively asking people for designs and features they want to see. Some creature/object designs for Shroud of the Avatar are already being implemented as we speak.

You can really see the passion these people have for their games and they are really putting in a lot of effort.

I really don't get that vibe from PGI though.

Exactly. I get the feeling like this is "Just" a business to PGI, In the sense it really doesn't matter what the IP is or what game they are making it's all simply for the profit. The passion for the game, the passion for the lore and the passion for Battletech in general just seems to be gone. That was what sold a lot of people TBH during the founders time. Hell it's what sold me on an Elite founder pack early on and the lack of it heading towards open beta was what made me get a refund. I felt like these guys wanted to do the IP justice and really bring Mechwarrior back into the mainstream. Now it just feels like it's a rush to get money, switching directions to try and target the casual World of Tanks crowd and casual free 2 play base in general, and quality has completely sunk along with all the seeming passion for the game.

My feeling is that it was the plan all along. I can't in any stretch of the imagination think that a development company would actively want to sabotage their own game to the founders and fans who supported them. Yet I feel like that is what we are seeing from Our point of view. From PGI's point of view though, I see that they have probably milked all the cash out of the Mechwarrior IP and now they are focusing on gameplay that will "hopefully" rake in the cash from the casual World of Tanks crowd and games similar to that.

I just don't see it being successful because the balance of the game is a mess, the quality is nowhere near enough to pull the whales from World of Tanks away, and honestly they are such similar games at this point that unless you really really really want stompy robot combat, World of Tanks is by far a better choice and I say that completely disliking World of Tanks. Case in point, one of my friends from my multi-gaming clan and his friend were big TT battletech fans and played the Mechwarrior games and they gave MW:O a try when it went Open Beta and the one guy quit after 3 matches saying it was really boring and a copycat of WoT, and Ironically he went back to WoT, and the other guy lasted a couple weeks but finally quit citing the same exact thing.

Anyways, enough of me ranting. I really want this game to be good because I have no better memories than playing Mechwarrior 2 and Ghost Bears Legacy at my friends house on his gateway when we were in like 5th grade and playing competitive matches of Mechcommander Gold on the Zone. Would love for something to bring back that experience, but I'm just not getting it with MW:O.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Just finished listening to the soundcloud recording ... thanks again to Word of Lowtax for organizing the town hall.

I agree with most of the points brought up.

I am a ravenous consumer of almost any media associated with MW:O, including NGNG. I very much enjoyed the NGNG episode where a couple of WoL members were interviewed ... I didn't know much about "goons" before then, and appreciate your passion for the game. I think that the NGNG founders would give you an opportunity to voice some of your concerns.

As a "middle of the road" PUG gamer, a long-time fan of the IP, and a fan of the game I can be patient, but my patience running low ... I need more information from the developers to keep my outlook positive ... I hope that your "rational reasoned approach" gains some traction.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 14 August 2013 - 03:24 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

I can't believe that PGI has no passion for M:WO or Battletech. Who wrote those dev blogs then? You can't tell me that some marketing guy could come up with such a document without caring for the IP?

Maybe it was written by someone that left the company?
Or was it written by someone that didn't realize how much work, effort and skill t it would actually require, and just can't do it?

I mean I could write such a document, but I couldn't do it alone.
A three man team could write such a document, but these three couldn't pull it off.
Maybe a PGI team could write such a document, but they still can't pull it off.
Maybe you need a AAA team of hundreds of developers, artists, designers, engineers and what not pull it off?


I might even say that there are hints they are actually too passionate about things - like not being able to let go of certain design decisions. ECM, Heat, Crit Seeking... (Surprised really in this context that R&R was removed..)

[N0MAD]

Posted this in wrong thread, re posting..

While i listened to todays Townhall, overwhelmingly i listend to people talking about game balance and while i think that it has its merits, its something i believe is a work in progress and nothing that can be fixed outright quickly. While some will say that this tweek or that change will fix things that will always be debatable.Obviously some small things will help the balance but a developing game will NEED to be tweeked on an ongoing basis. No amount of pressure will hasten the progress in any real or longlasting effect as the process needs to be ongoing. As others have mentioned even established games with a lot of years behind them still have calls for balancing.
The point of trying to open a communication line to PGI has merit, good luck with it.
One comment i think worth mentioning made by Stalker, made me think. He stated the game had lost alot of its fun. Here i need to ask, if the game was balanced to a point most would say "ok this is playable" would it really be fun again and if so for how long?
How long before playing random drops without any real end game result would it still stay fun?
OK so some will say and of course PGI will say we have CW coming, your point is mute. But i think alot of us will say that from the litle communication we have had about it, its not what alot of us want/need.
This leads me to ask, what kept the MW2-3-4 community alive and active for a decade? GAME LOBY.
Until MWO has one it will never be fun to a whole generation of MW fans. It will never be truly competitive, think about that.
As a Smoke Jaguar i want to drop vs a Team of IS scum say in a 200 mech vs 200 battle, weight limited, spanning multiple drops and players and beat the crap out of them. I want to go up against Goons, Kaos, SJR in controlled organised battles.
Until i have this, balanced or not the game will just be drop after drop, same old, boring.
Seems im in a small group of people thou as the main focus seems to be in whether 2xppc 1xgaus, or ghost something is killing the game ( balance) rather than Features.
Just my opinion thou.
GL

[RG Notch]

Chronojam, on 13 August 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

Thanks to everybody who showed up to represent casual players or groups of every sort. Things went a lot more smoothly this time, and it's a shorter listen with some really great responses.

It's shocking and illuminating that you guys honestly think that the people at that meeting represent a genuine cross section of the community as a whole. This is one of the core problems this movement has. It was basically representative of the "competitive" community and their concerns. You can talk about trickle down voodoo balancing all you want but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who see this as just representing a small slice of the player base.
You seem to be under the impression that being more vocal will cancel out the minority part of vocal minority. You can say the meeting was open to all, but ask yourself honestly who spoke? Was there a fair representation of anything but a handful of units? This allows players to feel that it's only for them and for PGI to dismiss it as just a small piece of the entire community. Again all the talk about inviting everyone falls flat if no one but the "competitive" community shows up to speak it's not representative. Counting the signatures is just as silly. It's easy for people to sign this but keep on playing and paying as they have and again what message does that send to PGI? They may conclude it's just a lot of talk.
Folks here keep insisting people have quit in droves, they are playing and paying less, and the numbers are impressive. Well if that is all true why isn't IGP/PGI taking any notice? Could it be that enough new players are replacing them, that people are still paying and playing at numbers PGI/IGP consider good, and/or the numbers aren't really that big a part of the playerbase?
I'm not saying those things are true, but no one here seems to even be considering them. They just seem to think IGP/PGI are morons who are going to run the game into the ground. Could it be that IGp?PGI has numbers that show they can safely ignore this movement?
I am not saying these beliefs are true, but if you don't consider them, you won't change anything if that is where management is coming from. Getting all the "competitive" community on one page may not matter if that isn't where PGI/IGP thinks the money is. Saying everyone is invited isn't enough. Plus the amount of condescension in some of the speakers attitude is going to turn some people off.
Anyways, you can say you are representing lots of groups but it doesn't appear so from that audio.

[Royalewithcheese]

RG Notch, on 14 August 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

It's shocking and illuminating that you guys honestly think that the people at that meeting represent a genuine cross section of the community as a whole. This is one of the core problems this movement has. It was basically representative of the "competitive" community and their concerns. You can talk about trickle down voodoo balancing all you want but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who see this as just representing a small slice of the player base.

I'm a casual, I felt represented. It's not like the folks speaking at the event pulled their opinions out of the ether - they're playing the same game we are and participating in the same discussions we are (example: this thread.)