228 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

MischiefSC, on 15 August 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Griffin! FTW!

That's a good point. Mediums almost never did PPCs.

Oh Griffin. *sniff*


You make my cooling suit fit funny.

Vindicator!
Clint-2-3U

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 August 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[IronChance]

Geminus, on 15 August 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

I did not say take aim out of the game. read the post. Like Clancy introduced in rainbow six, the point of aim is not the same as point of impact due to variables. In fact, every Clancy FPS has this. For this it would just need to be "opened up" some more. Moving causes the aiming reticule to open up due to the inaccuracy caused by moving. standing still causes it to shrink. These mechs do not have complex targeting computers. I am saying that their should be like this: imagine that the reticle is not the tiny pinpoint accurate cross hair hat you see. Imagine it is a ring about the size of a dime on a 20 inch monitor. your shots will be placed randomly inside that dime. The dime will be bigger or smaller in size depending on whether you are moving, running, jumping or standing still. You do not see the dime, you see the standard cross hair. This accurately replicates the table top, books and all btech cannon. It allows the "fix" to all weapons simultaneously, as they are still direct fire, you can still aim them, they just are not as accurate. Heat build up would also cause the "dime" to open up.

And like I said in my first post. This is like putting one TV on CNN and another On fox news, setting the TVs in front of each other and seeing which one talks the other in to changing their mind first. So I am signing out of this.

Yeah, I'm totally with you about the CNN/FOX thing and I was just reading this thread for fun, but when I saw your post I had to respond. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you've really thought it through. If every shot is placed down a cone, then you have everyone shooting at CT and never bothering to line up a shot. There won't be any aimed component destruction shots. I won't even try to shoot a victor's arms off or hit a 3D in the torso because the odds would be so greatly diminished. That's not fair. I know those mechs. I know how to fight them. I should be rewarded for having that knowledge and the skill to aim correctly.

Look, I want the meta to change as much as anybody because I want to use other weapon loadouts without getting destroyed, but taking precise aiming out is just too far. I hope that explains why no one else considered your idea before, as you mentioned.

[Joseph Mallan]

IronChance, on 15 August 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Yeah, I'm totally with you about the CNN/FOX thing and I was just reading this thread for fun, but when I saw your post I had to respond. I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you've really thought it through. If every shot is placed down a cone, then you have everyone shooting at CT and never bothering to line up a shot. There won't be any aimed component destruction shots. I won't even try to shoot a victor's arms off or hit a 3D in the torso because the odds would be so greatly diminished. That's not fair. I know those mechs. I know how to fight them. I should be rewarded for having that knowledge and the skill to aim correctly.

Look, I want the meta to change as much as anybody because I want to use other weapon loadouts without getting destroyed, but taking precise aiming out is just too far. I hope that explains why no one else considered your idea before, as you mentioned.

I think you may be missing the point. I believe hat the idea to a a CoF is only for those of us who like to Alpha strike hard and often. So if you are chain firing you would not get the CoF and your skillz will be preserved.

After watching U-Tube of Warthogs and Abrams firing...
...
...
Recoil could be looked at (Abrams) and Accuracy (Warthog) should be looked at! How accurate can a weapon be if it starts firing 1/4 mile before he target!

[Tincan Nightmare]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 August 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

The question was how long does it take to replace X with Y. I answered that question with a hard game Mechanics answer. You countered with Rule book Fluff explanation. BattleTech Master Rules Page 91 Repair and Replacement Table.

Joseph Mallan, on 15 August 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Samuel "Shorty" Sneede. Rifleman,Phoenix Hawk, Warhammer Thing!


Marcus GeoAvanti, Swapped out his Gauss, PPC for Clan equivalents in the Mechbay of the Head of a Pin Fortress class dropship. I am sure there are other notable Upgrades that did not happen in a Factory. I will agree that a Endo swap would need one, but who says we didn't use a factory/train tech to get the upgrade done???

Oh an 1800 minutes (1,800/60=30) 30 hours or 4 8 hour days. Again doable between missions thanks to Handwavium. And I seem to remember someone switching out an engine for an XL in the fiction...

Lol this is getting funny now, as you first state me quoting from a rule book was using 'fluff' which doesn't apply, but then use that same 'fluff' to prove your point. Its even more ridiculous that we are going back and forth about the BT customization rules that neither of us want in MWO. Yes, the great travel times in the BT universe (days in a dropship to a jumppoint, then maybe weeks to months popping between stars on a jumpship) would give a tech time to 'tinker' with a design. But, as the rules state, at the risk of damaging the design or hurting its performance. Yes, there were plenty of 'shorty' one off designs that mechwarriors and techs cobbled together, but this is a rarity not the norm. As mischiefSC points out, it would be just way to expensive for the typical mechwarrior to attempt, and depending on what they wanted to change, may require facilities not available to them (such as a factory to change a standard engine for an XL). And even more importantly, when such 'custom' jobs were done to mechs, they were not done over and over again. There is a big difference between an Omnimech and a standard Battlemech, and even Omni's couldn't swap out armor, internal structure, or engine types. They could change weapons and amount of heat sinks, but couldn't even change the type of heat sink. I am not saying a standard mech couldn't be customized, heck the ELH had their own model of T-bolt with JJ's (but were one of the biggest and richest mercs units around) it was just a great rarity, and as the complexity of the refit increased (from basics such as changing weapons up to XL and Endo upgrades) required better facilities. Thankfully we don't have that in MWO, for which I am dully grateful, but the mechlab bares little resemblance to BT lore.

Edited by Tincan Nightmare, 15 August 2013 - 07:49 PM.

[IronChance]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 August 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

I think you may be missing the point. I believe hat the idea to a a CoF is only for those of us who like to Alpha strike hard and often. So if you are chain firing you would not get the CoF and your skillz will be preserved.

After watching U-Tube of Warthogs and Abrams firing...
...
...
Recoil could be looked at (Abrams) and Accuracy (Warthog) should be looked at! How accurate can a weapon be if it starts firing 1/4 mile before he target!

Yep. I totally missed the point.

Especially since no where in his post did he ever mention what you're talking about.

Still, it's not an uninteresting idea, if totally arbitrary. Although, the current heat rules are certainly pretty arbitrary...

[Joseph Mallan]

Point but many of the folks asking for the cone are asking for it on Alpha Strikes. I for one am fine with sacrificing a bit of accuracy for the hammer to fall and fall hard. As for Arbitrary... +24 heat on Dual AC20s. Certain Chassis getting more JJ than they have movement points for but not others... Arbitrary and PGI sleep together a lot!

[idle crow]

I always find these threads amusing because when a brawling weapon does everything a PPC can but from 270m or less. No red flags, that's perfectly ok because the aging MWO community of blind old men can hit at that range.

They may as well have buff every weapon in the game to hit as hard as SRM did with full splash and limited them all to 270m. Problem solved.

[MrZakalwe]

idle crow, on 16 August 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

I always find these threads amusing because when a brawling weapon does everything a PPC can but from 270m or less. No red flags, that's perfectly ok because the aging MWO community of blind old men can hit at that range.

They may as well have buff every weapon in the game to hit as hard as SRM did with full splash and limited them all to 270m. Problem solved.

PPCs dont seem to be getting the proper damage dropoff right now- they seem to be a pretty effective brawling tool

[Geminus]

IronChance, on 15 August 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

Yep. I totally missed the point.

Especially since no where in his post did he ever mention what you're talking about.

Still, it's not an uninteresting idea, if totally arbitrary. Although, the current heat rules are certainly pretty arbitrary...

Damn you fox and cnn!
You did not miss the point, I did not adequately express myself. Joseph saw what I was thinking. And thank you for using Cone of fire, I have used this term before and had people not know what I was talking about.

I would say that right now, we have what I would call, 1 pixel point of aim/ point of impact. (poa/poi).
what your little dot of a cross hair is aimed at, your weapon will hit.
My proposed concept is that by cannon, these machines are inaccurate unless they have installed targeting computers that take up crits and tonnage.
So by default, open up the cross hair to be say, 2 pixels witdh on a cold machine that is standing still.
If a machine is moving, poa/poi opens up more, say 4 pixels on a moving machine.
Firing a balistic weapons or missile weapons causes recoil, recoil cause the poa/poi to open up another pixel per weapon fired. after firing there is a small reset in which it shrinks back to default, unless your moving, hot or jumping.
Energy weapons generate heat when fired, that spike in heat effects targeting, open up the poa/poi again.
This is a universal application to all weapons that allows all weapons to function as intended, fits better in to btech cannon, makes more sense than applying duplicate and tertiary heat scales.
Of course, as your mech heats up from standard use this also affect poa/poi and spreads out the cone of fire, like the TT heat scale has always had, as you heat up their are negatives to hit.