27 replies to this topic

[Chainfist]

I'm trying to get some long range firepower on my (not yet bought) HBK 4P

HBK 4P

could this build be useful or is the heat buildup a problem.

Any useful advice is welcome.

Edited by Chainfist, 14 August 2013 - 06:46 AM.

[DONTOR]

Well I wouldnt have thought 2 LL a PPC an 2 SML would give you that good of a heat efficiency given it only has 11 DHS. Since it does though i say go ahead it looks fun! I actually bought my first 4P yesterday and put in 3 PPC and am having alot of fun with it. (make sure you stay well away from the fighting btw) Oh ya and i have only lost my laser hump once in 10 games. and that game i had 750 damage and 2 kills. So if your very careful with it it can last the whole game.

[ZeProme]

From my observation, heat will be a big problem.

Interesting to say the least but I prefer the standard all ML laser with STD 260 engine.

[scJazz]

The Small lasers have to go, replace them with another DSHS. Heat will still be tricky but less so.

[Chainfist]

Thx for the tips maybe i'll ditch the two sl's and add another DHS as scJazz suggested.

I'll have to save up a few millon cbills anyway so i still have time to consider my options .

[Modo44]

I like it simple, so I put 2 PPCs on the arms, and some backup lasers in the torso. You think double pepsi lights are a pain in the ***? Try this thing.

Edited by Modo44, 14 August 2013 - 07:32 AM.

[aniviron]

Take out the AMS and a quarter ton of armor from each arm, add two more DHS. A mech that relies on energy weapons that heavily lives and dies on its cooling ability, and as a longtime 4P pilot, every single HS counts. You won't really need the AMS anyway- you'll mostly be engaging at longer ranges and peeking given your weapons loadout, and you should be more than fast enough to get to cover with a 250 engine unless you're doing something foolish. The AMS doesn't give you much, so take it out for the DHS, which give you a lot.

[Senordos13]

aniviron, on 14 August 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Take out the AMS and a quarter ton of armor from each arm, add two more DHS. A mech that relies on energy weapons that heavily lives and dies on its cooling ability, and as a longtime 4P pilot, every single HS counts. You won't really need the AMS anyway- you'll mostly be engaging at longer ranges and peeking given your weapons loadout, and you should be more than fast enough to get to cover with a 250 engine unless you're doing something foolish. The AMS doesn't give you much, so take it out for the DHS, which give you a lot.

This is exactly what I came here to say. AMS is nice, but stick close to buddies to have them cover you. As a medium you have to keep your fire going to make yourself useful. Cooling is your number one concern.

[scJazz]

Senordos13, on 14 August 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

This is exactly what I came here to say. AMS is nice, but stick close to buddies to have them cover you. As a medium you have to keep your fire going to make yourself useful. Cooling is your number one concern.

You know the problem with this AMS advice is that everyone takes it. Then there are no buddies who have it. Be your own buddy, bring the AMS!

[Unnatural Growth]

I would encourage you to run AMS, at least for a while. It's up to the individual pilot to make adjustments to suit his playstyle. I run 1 ERLL and 7 ML's in my P. I'm also running 17 Dual Heatsinks. This thing runs hot. The all energy P is a hot box, so watch your firing rate for heat buildup.

I keybind one mouse button for the ERLL, one mouse button for 4 ML's, one mouse button for 3 ML's, and the fourth mouse button will alpha strike. I can fire the ERLL endlessly, the 3 ML endlessly, the 4 ML's for 6 or 7 in a row, or alpha strike all weapons twice in a row without shutdown.

The very first thing you need is the DHS upgrade!

I'm running the STD 200 engine, since as an assault support, I only have to keep up with the really slow mechs anyway. Frees up extra tonnage for DHS's.

[luigi256]

The 4P is a good mech but if you are still working on getting it why not consider the 4SP if you are not going to use all the energy points? Here is a look at a 4SP I made with an ER PPC

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...40c0fa45486b19b

If you want to you can use the 4SP for its srm. If you think down the line you may want 9 medium lasers instead stick to the 4P.

Edit: I also created a build right now for you exact same weapon loadout that you have except it is a 4SP.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2cab716862f55f1

The difference is that the hardpoints are in the arms more so than in the torso.

Edited by luigi256, 14 August 2013 - 01:50 PM.

[Roosterfish]

I ran 2 PPC's in my 4P in the hunch with MLas back up for awhile, I put them in the hunch for sniping, with them in the hunch they always hit together. It wasn't bad but it ran hotter than the 9 MLas standard before the heat patch. Now it might be different.

My recommendation is that if you get a 4P run it with the 9 MLas standard before you change out weapons. You just might be surprised how much you like the 9 MLas setup.

Right now my 4P is running 6 MLas in the hunch and 3 SPLas in the arms and head. I've got a ways to go before I've got the fire discipline to run with all 9 MLas.

PS- Heat will always be problem on an all energy mech if you run larger than Small lasers.

Edited by Roosterfish, 14 August 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[Koniving]

I've deluxed your build, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0a50043653f1424
Most importantly is the firing rate you are capable of when it counts for close-up situations and lights. Also though it says it is hotter, when enemies are closer than 90 meters you would stop using those PPCs, and the heat efficiency would rise significantly.

In MWO your current firing rate is PPCs at 4 seconds apart, large lasers at 4.25 seconds apart. Someone only has to twist when you fire, and will have all the damage you dealt on their arm, while they did all their damage to your head.

Meanwhile... In the build I've provided, you do have some risk it's true. The armor allocation in the right torso actually minimizes this risk (that "rear right torso" is a tiny strip just above your leg that no one really hits anyway; the "right front torso" is your entire hunch, far right side, and right abdomen). However you can fire every 3 seconds minimum with the cluster of smalls with less 'focus' time, too. Fire even faster with fast-fire.

Keep in mind this assumes you are fighting in or near cover.

You can, of course, go with other builds. A 2 PPC and 2 LL combination isn't bad, but as Jazz said you would need to drop the small lasers as the heat is just too much if you fire them together.

Edited by Koniving, 14 August 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[Roosterfish]

Koniving, I really like that Deluxed build you posted. If I go back to PPC's in my 4P I will run that one.

PPC's fire to 90m then switch over to the SLas, just 2 less damage than the big guns. Even less heat with the SLas array.

Decent speed, upped the armor, and even better it has AMS.

[Koniving]

Thank you. You just made my day.

But remember it has an XL engine, this is normally bad in a Hunchback. (Forgot I made it work without, lol.) What makes your hunchback last and I must emphasize this which I hate doing as I hate saying "you have to do this" but... You. Must. Do. 46 Minimum Front Right Torso Armor to make that build work.
^Super Important!

Here's why. Note that "orange" are Side Front Torsos.

See how it covers your Hunch on all sides, 360 degrees around? That's why if you do not put a minimum of 46 armor to right front torso, you will absolutely hate the build (if it had an XL engine). Actually you will hate Hunchbacks in general unless you allocate that right front torso armor to 46 minimum (your hunch will last a LOT longer if you do it). It is crucial.

Good luck!

Edited by Koniving, 14 August 2013 - 05:27 PM.

[Mr Friday]

Now that everyone has been nice, helpful and sensible I feel the need to bring back some stupidity.

Ignore heat, aquire lasors!

Edited by Mr Friday, 14 August 2013 - 04:56 PM.

[Chainfist]

I already have a 4SP and a 4H HBK the 4p is going to be my third. As the other two variants are more brawler builds i wanted something a little bit more long ranged.
The build with the small lasers looks interesting too but a bit experimental for a rookie like me.

Maybe i will try something like this: Konvinig's variant slightly changed
I dont want to spend the cbills for a std240 engine. It has to be either the std 200 or thr 250.
Looks like you are really seroius with the armor on the right torso. Why 46 exactly 2 in the back really does not seem like much.

And btw quite a helpful and active community here. I started two days ago and the learning curve is a steep one but i'm enjoying myself tremendously so far .

Edited by Chainfist, 14 August 2013 - 05:11 PM.

[Koniving]

Mr Friday, on 14 August 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Now that everyone has been nice, helpful and sensible I feel the need to bring back some stupidity.

Ignore heat, aquire lasors!

In the name of non-sense. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0765b4ddefd7aca Demonstrated here pre-PPC firing speed reduction (one PPC fires every 2 or 3 seconds).

Chainfist, on 14 August 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

I already have a 4SP and a 4H HBK the 4p is going to be my third. As the other two variants are more brawler builds i wanted something a little bit more long ranged.
The build with the small lasers looks interesting too but a bit experimental for a rookie like me.

Maybe i will try something like this: Konvinig's variant slightly changed
I dont want to spend the cbills for a std240 engine. It has to be either the std 200 or thr 250.
Looks like you are really seroius with the armor on the right torso. Why 46 exactly 2 in the back really does not seem like much.

And btw quite a helpful and active community here. I started two days ago and the learning curve is a steep one but i'm enjoying myself tremendously so far .

Looks like it could work. Which made me go back and edit something; my build did not have an XL engine. I'm thinking my triple AC/2 build, lol.

[Roosterfish]

XL is a no-no in a Hunchie for me most of the time.

The only one I'd even consider an XL in is my 4J, being a lrm based build it has a lot of tonnage devoted to its lrm's. I'm thinking of going with an XL in it to up it's ammo tonnage and to add BAP.

Chainfist, I like your take on the Deluxed build by Koniving. Dropping 1 SLas and some armor is a decent trade off for the larger engine. I'm glad to see you didn't drop the AMS to do it.

[Koniving]

Roosterfish, on 14 August 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

XL is a no-no in a Hunchie for me most of the time.

You'd barely notice with the armor allocation I had for the Right Torso.

Spoiler

Score.

Build.


Demonstration (<--time skipped to the match) after spending most of my ammo just demonstrating a hidden penalty (which is now much worse).
What happened when I finally lost the hunch on a non-XL engine Hunchback.