29 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Look, this isn't a "I died in X, therefore it's broken" rant. Hell, none of my commonly used mechs are affected by these issues at all (mind you, I may use other mechs if they didn't have such issues, but that's another matter). I don't even own any of them, despite having 24 mechs currently.

Size directly impacts balance. It's not nearly as important as relative hitbox sizes, though.

To argue otherwise is just silly - A larger mech is easier to hit, a smaller mech is harder to hit. This is pretty damn obvious stuff. A larger mech means larger hitboxes, which lead to it being easier to focus damage over time to a single location. Heavier mechs ought to be larger, of course - this is part of the inherent disadvantage in trundling around in an assault mech. But a Medium in particular should absolutely not be enormous. If it is, why bother with the medium at all? Just get into a Heavy - they typically sport the same speeds and firepower with more armor.

A huuuuuge center torso (Awesome, Kitaro) means a greater volume of "random" (read: either poorly aimed or simply fired roughly center mass) fire hitting your center torso, which translates directly into a shorter time to kill. This is why you'll see very, very few of both of these in high level play. They are objectively worse mechs to pilot than others.

Yes, pilot skill is important. I'd happily even argue that pilot skill is by far the single most important factor in performance, no doubt at all. By a landslide. But assuming equal pilot skill, a mech with better hitboxes simply wins.

Now, I'm all for different mechs having different strengths and weaknesses. Absolutely. But when your mechs "Special Weakness" is "Killed rapidly by any random fire", you need a pretty ******* good advantage to counter that.

[Wintersdark]

My personal opinion? When I see Awesome's and Kitaro's on the opposing team, I'm happy, and (assuming it's tactically viable) focus on them first because they are quite simply the easiest kills. It's not a wasted opportunity, either, as both have decent firepower (though no more than others of their tonnage) so it's simply efficient to cut them down first.

[MisterFiveSeven]

I don't lose because of silly hitboxes.

I just pilot a stalker instead.

[Wintersdark]

Tennex, on 15 August 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

shadow hawk is gunna be huge

Just getting this in now:

I bet the Locust is as big as a Jenner, the Shadow Hawk slightly larger than(or maaaaybe the same size as) a Quickdraw, the Thunderbolt will make an Awesome look tiny, and the Battlemaster will be smaller than a Kitaro.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Arete, on 15 August 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

PGI has replied numerous times about the scaling. Their point of view is that the scaling is about right since they've taken density into account. If they are right or not is up for debate (*cough*stalker*cough*), but saying they don't care is a bit harsch.

Yeah, like they talked about a catapult is as big as a stalker because most of the 65 tons in in the catapult body, while the ears take up lots of volume, they are not very heavy.

So it seems like they’re taking internal structure into consideration, but they’re not taking into consideration that when the armor is blown off of the mech, the internal structure is still the same size. An armorless leg is no smaller than a fully armored one and just as easy to hit.

They insist that Volume =/= Density, and Density = Internal Structure. However, if they don’t account for a different size when the Internal Structure is exposed then their whole logic process goes to poo. The component model is not that dynamic to make up for that type of reasoning, as their reasoning lies in the Internal Structure which we never see or shoot at – we always are hitting the bigger, bulkier areas, regardless of how much mass is inside.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 15 August 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[Anjian]

Looking at the artwork, I get the feeling of despair the Shadowhawk might be as big and torsoey as a Kintaro, the Battlemaster might be an Awesome II, and the Thunderbolt, another Quickdraw. Well, Quickdraw ain't so bad but again its a bit torsoey. Just hoping there is enough time for PGI to learn from their mistakes and do things right by October.

PGI need to use the test client and servers as a testing ground for new mechs, even at the cost of revealing such a mech to the player base. And they should do this to the maps as well, so we don't have the foot traps like in Terra Therma. I understand PGI is trying their best with their limited resources but for heaven's sake, get some quality control! The fibs done on the Kintaro and Terra Therma has once again shaken my faith on PGI in executing content in the proper fashion.

[Tennex]

BlueVisionWarrior Online, on 15 August 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

"Scaling" is a crutch for bads to complain about losing. Come at me, bro.

saying "scaling is a crutch" is a crutch for people who cant use logic to figure out how size would impact balance.

Edited by Tennex, 15 August 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[Faithsfall]

This is one of my biggest fears now especially for the shadowhawk as this is described as a nimble mech that has been in production for hundreds of years.

from sarna

A recon and strike BattleMech developed during the Golden Age, the Shadow Hawk is a powerful fusion of maneuverability and firepower. With long-range missiles and class-5 autocannon for ranged combat, and SRMs and lasers for close in work, the Shadow Hawk outguns many BattleMechs in its weight class. Jump Jets enhance an already speedy BattleMechs ability to bring its guns to bear and keep better-armed enemies at range. A superior BattleMech for commanding a reconnaissance company or serving as a spotter for heavy and assault lances, the Shadow Hawk is a proven and capable design that has served with distinction for more than five centuries.

Though in the battletech universe if PGI was in charge of production it would have been fielded for all of 5 days before the factory did a recall.

[Sephlock]

Here's some leaked footage of a Shadow Hawk.

[Roosterfish]

The Project Pheonix Mechs torsos will be so large you will rent them out for use as drive in movie screens when they are not in a drop.