70 replies to this topic

[GODzillaGSPB]

I've lately noticed, especially now that 12 vs 12 is in and people are afraid of getting focused by a dozen mechs, that assaults more and more take the role of supporters, staying behind. LRMs, obviously. But also an Atlas with an ac20 and one ac2 (and nothing more). I can only pressume he spend the rest on heatsinks and ac2 ammo...

In several games, where we actually and clearly gained the upper hand those same assaults still hid in their cover while the frontline mediums (yeah...frontline mediums... ) and heavies were already pretty beaten up and had to make the last push towards victory on their own.

I usually play medium and it's really frustrating to do frontline duty. Lately I've won many of my games...dead. These assaults survived. So is that it? Is that the reason they take that role, to survive? Thanks for nothing!

Think about this, dear support assaults: When weight limits are in the game, you'll be a much smaller group. Yes, you will survive back in your trenchses, but once the frontline mediums and heavies are dealt with, you'll die surrounded and alone.

[MadMaxMKII]

true. lately I lost many games in which the assaults just stand in the last lines and shooting their Lrm20, gauss, ER-PPC and whatever. but on the frontline their meatbodies are missing.

that said, it is ok if the assault is maybe a pure lrm boat (AWS 8R, 8V), but with only one LRM20 launcher get your ***** to the front -.-

[Onmyoudo]

This has always been a problem. If there were proper incentives for sacrificing yourself for the win and taking damage to help the team then you wouldn't have as many LRM Atlai as you do. As it is, 1) having lots of armour to survive, 2) doing lots of damage and 3) relying on your teammates to take hits while you shoot people is way more profitable than actually trying to win. Hence you will see this until the fundamental reward structure changes.

[Shadey99]

Since I decided to try out Jagers I often find myself up front... I just had a match where I was in a 1v1 duel against an Atlas (thankfully with a ridge between us) and instead of the other four mechs from my team coming up to support me, they stayed over 500m away. Before I could finish the Atlas off (I'd ripped away it's CT armor) a K2 Cat got behind me and let loose with everything it had into my back. Where were the four guys behind me? Cowering behind cover still 500 m away and not even shooting the guy in the open who dropped me or the Atlas I'd battered.

[Lucian Nostra]

while its cowardice on some levels (those assaults that never push) its a 2 fold reason you see many hang back. first being that an assault that ends up in a bad situation is dead or at least going to be heavily damaged by the time it gets back out of it. so its often better to hang back till you know where you should be and if your going to actually have support when you get there.

secondly those support assaults minimize the most frustrating part of mwo, your reliance on your team. how many times in a scrap do you find your teamates running away leaving you to die when you could of won if they stayed? how about dieing when they stay, than spectating them and seeing they suck at aiming and can't even hit that altas you where engaging, or instead of pounding the enemy assault with you they're spinning around trying to gun down some spider?

[MisterFiveSeven]

We had a huge furball at theta on tourmaline. By the end of it there are four of us left and one of them.

I was brawling in my x4 medlas ac20 3D (it's terrible, I know, but it is so much fun to pilot).

As we finish the last one and all turn to chase down the last enemy spider, I notice we have an atlas buddy @ 91% (I'm at like 30-something) and I ask him, dude where were you during that brawl (I even made a cheeky face at the end to be disarming).

His reply was "**** you , you suck."

He then proceeded to pour ~1000 lrm's into a cliff face (shooting at the spider) because he couldn't seem to grasp lrm's flight path.

[Royalewithcheese]

I think it's probably an over-reaction to the tendency of the pug lottery to sometimes hand Assault pilots the "your team ran away/after a squirrel, gl fighting 12 people" card. However, the solution to that IMO is to give your Assault as much mobility as possible and pay very close attention to what your team is doing, not to hang back and shoot lurms

[Prezimonto]

I would love to see mech quirks and game rewards do the following:
bonus XP and cbills for damage taken by assaults
bonus XP and cbills for damage given by heavies
bonus XP and cbills for capping/spotting by lights
bonus XP and cbills (and a slightly lower level but higher overall) for everything by mediums

Edit:
Check out the feature suggestion I've got going if you like this idea:
http://mwomercs.com/...88#entry2660588

Edited by Prezimonto, 18 August 2013 - 05:27 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

I have lost count of how many times I have spearheaded an attack in my Atlas or Victor or other assault only to die alone. The longer we stay alive, the more damage we can do on the enemy. You should be sure that the assault pilot is in on the plan to push and then you better be sure not to abandon it on the front. Assaults cannot turn and fall back on a dime. When we commit to a maneuver, it's usually for good.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Prezimonto, on 15 August 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

I would love to see mech quirks and game rewards do the following:
bonus XP and cbills for damage taken by assaults
bonus XP and cbills for damage given by heavies
bonus XP and cbills for capping/spotting by lights
bonus XP and cbills (and a slightly lower level but higher overall) for everything by mediums

Very cool idea!!!

PS: You should go ahead and post this over in the feature suggestions.

[DerSpecht]

All my Atlas have MAxed LRM (dual ALRM20 on mah RS and triple ALRM15 on the DDC) with Artemis and you know what? you can attack with them. Minimum range ist still 200m and you can rain doom while advancing. This works. Its fun and you deal tons of damage while charging.

Dont blame the builds blame the players.

[Lord Ikka]

It really depends on if the Assault is really a "support" Mech. The only real support Mech right now are LRM boats, as sniper build weaponry have no downside when used up close. I don't have a problem with Stalker and Awesome LRM boats sitting back and blasting away; I don't like the pilots that don't have the courage to take their 80+ ton monster into the fray when I'm in my Hunchback when they have weapons other than LRMs.

[GODzillaGSPB]

DerSpecht, on 15 August 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

All my Atlas have MAxed LRM (dual ALRM20 on mah RS and triple ALRM15 on the DDC) with Artemis and you know what? you can attack with them. Minimum range ist still 200m and you can rain doom while advancing. This works. Its fun and you deal tons of damage while charging.

Dont blame the builds blame the players.

Well...I kinda do. I'm talking to the players, don't I? ^^ And you're right of course.

[N a p e s]

This has been the case for a long time but it may have seemed to have been less of an issue when the whole meta was PPC ridge sniping because almost everyone was hunkering down.

When I lead the push (usually in a medium or one of my lighter heavies) I'll take the time to type "Push now" or something to that affect just before running in guns blazing. Its payed off on occasion but it can also turn me into a lonely pile of scrap metal.

[StonedDead]

In BT (books at least) Assaults were not meant to be the leading mechs. The majority of mechs were mediums and most of the fighting was done with them. Assaults were just too expensive to be wasted like that. (not defending pilot cowardice)

When tonnage comes into play, there just won't be that many assaults left in the game. They will become rare. They will need defending. They will be relegated to the role of support, occasionally moving up to engage another assault on the enemy team. So front-line medium is right. You're using that medium the way it was meant to be used. You should be able to count on your assaults to back you up though.

In the books, it was always described as an awesome thing when two assaults squared off, and it wasn't until the clans had been around for a while when it became more common for them to become front-line. Just think of them as playing their role. Not counting new players, players who don't know how to use their mech, and of course: cowardice. You just can't make everyone fight. Not counting the cowards, defend those players who don't seem to have the hang of their mechs. The more chance you give them to live, (hopefully) the better they will get.

[RussianWolf]

cdlord, on 15 August 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

I have lost count of how many times I have spearheaded an attack in my Atlas or Victor or other assault only to die alone. The longer we stay alive, the more damage we can do on the enemy. You should be sure that the assault pilot is in on the plan to push and then you better be sure not to abandon it on the front. Assaults cannot turn and fall back on a dime. When we commit to a maneuver, it's usually for good.

Or been left behind (An Atlas can do ~60kph at best folks) to be surrounded by lights and die the death of a thousand cuts. Happened again last night in fact. I see the team on radar off chasing one mech, I was surrounded by two spiders, a raven and a Cicada. Didn't end well for me but I took two with me.

If you leave your Assault Mechs to fend for themselves, you have no complaints to make.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

DerSpecht, on 15 August 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

All my Atlas have MAxed LRM (dual ALRM20 on mah RS and triple ALRM15 on the DDC) with Artemis and you know what? you can attack with them. Minimum range ist still 200m and you can rain doom while advancing. This works. Its fun and you deal tons of damage while charging.

Dont blame the builds blame the players.

totally right - 400m is about optimum range for LRMs these days. it also leaves you able to close quickly to use your back up weapons (MLs etc).

[Tskeet]

^^ Yes I personally think tonnage balance will be one of the greatest changes to this game's core mechanics in a seriously good way.


As for hanging back, it's just a symptom of PUGing. When I play any game with people I know, I'll trust their calls and orders because I know they know what they're doing. Thus we become more than the sum of our parts (1 + 1 = 3).

In a PUG I make basic calls which are frequently ignored; that's just how it is.

[General Taskeen]

XL Assaults basically are support Mechs, depending on their loadout, like a default Atlas-K.

[LeShadow]

In my experience, Assaults are the only 'Mechs that can peek around a corner, fire a salvo and get back behind cover alive if it turns out half the enemy team has been staring at that exact corner. I tend to lead the charge in my Stalkers, if my faster teammates don't just rush off on their own (tends to happen on larger maps). There's enough time to fall back and play fire support after you've taken some hits - and, ideally, dished out more damage than you took in the process. Bonus points if you can drag a few overconfident foes, chasing the "easy kill", back into your team's sights.

Also, "fire support" does not equal "cower behind cover doing jack ****". There's usually some angle you can attack from, even if you only scratch an arm or a leg. Take a few seconds to cool down, sure, but beyond that, every second not spent fighting you're basically dead weight, so try to minimize that time.

Now, the crucial part in all this is timig, is to know when and where to push and when to back off. Some people, I suppose, find it easier to err on the side of caution.