13 replies to this topic

[Xasti]

Is reaching over 80 kph in an assault, specifically a victor, something to be feared or laughed due to poor weapon loadout to compensate? Id rather not buy a 360xl engine if the build is complete rubbish.

Vtr-9a
3 mplas
Srm 4&6
Lbx-ac/10
BAP
6/6 JJ
Full armor
Biggest engine I can stuff in.

Two paths for the engine, xl for speed or std for survivability. 360xl and 320 std are about the same weight. I've found victors are mostly xl friendly, dying to ct hits more than sides. That being said, an xl increases twist speed and the build is rather cool on paper, with either engine.
My goal is to make an assault that eats lights and mediums. The lbx is to take advantage of the crits and lessen dependency on accuracy vs fast Mecha. The BAP is to target shutdowns and acquire info for weak spots faster. It can be removed for an ams or to save weight/slots.


Tl;Dr: can assault Mecha do well with faster than average engines or should they focus on weapon loadout and surviving?

[Nauht]

For a Victor, if you want to wring every ounce of performance out of it, XL350 minimum and 3JJ minimum IMO.
Once you learn how to pilot that setup effectively you're gonna be spoilt.

Otherwise go for a heavier weapon platform such as any other assault (except the Awesome).

[Cold Cash]

Ive found i prefer 300xl 66kph with tweak and the tonnage allows for better/harder hitting loadouts.

[The Platypus]

I'd stick with a minimum of a 350XL. Vics are a bit too squishy to be slow, imho. I think the whole point of getting a Victor is speed. Otherwise, I'd just pilot my Highlanders instead.

[Modo44]

Ditto for taking an XL350 on a Victor.

If you prefer to be scary rather than quick, a Highlander makes more sense than a Victor. The builds are similar, but with more armor and firepower.

[Flyto]

What others have said seems to make sense - that if you don't want to go fast, you may as well swap your Victor for its big brother the Highlander... but with that said, there's probalby quite a lot of middle ground between the ~64kph that you can reasonably get out of a Highlander (with an XL), and the 80+ that you're talking about, and it might be worth exploring Victor builds that fit in that gap.

But in a more general sense, my experience of 80+kph assualts is with an Awesome 9M. Based on that,

- Yes, you have to sacrifice weapons loadout to get speed. And as a "light" assault you have somewhat less armour than the big guys (an effect amplified in the AWS by its profile)

- As such, it plays very differently to a highlander/stalker/atlas, or even to the heavier heavies. It is *not* about positioning yourself and trading heavy hits, but it's about flanking, backstabbing, hit & run. You can provide support where it's needed when it's needed, and even (in this current heavy & assault meta) be the person to rush back to base to deal with the Jenner that's capping. I find that playing the -9M has more in common with playing my Hunckbacks than it has with playing my Highlanders.

[TyrEol]

I run an XL360 in my Victor 9B with speed tweak I just break 80kph, I chose this as I wanted to run something different to my other builds with mostly close range weapons (LBX, 2xMGs, SRMs, + some lasers) and being too slow would have meant getting shredded before I can close to weapons range.

The XL350 and up allow you to put 4 heat sinks in the engine saving you vital critical slots

I liked the XL360 because it was only .5 of a ton over the XL355 but still gave me the same speed increment as the XL355 over the XL350. But when I picked my engine I had 80KPH in my head as what I wanted to do.

Having said that I also run a 325 (which I bought for my CTF-3D) in my Victor 9S I think it doesn 72kph and allows me to pack double UAC5s for some really nice mid range firepower.

As already mentioned if I wanted to run slower with more weapons I'd just use my highlanders.

ps I held onto at least one of the Victor stock STD320 engines, they're quite nice for my highlanders

Edited by TyrEol, 23 August 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[ShadowbaneX]

Xasti, on 22 August 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

Vtr-9a
3 mplas
Srm 4&6
Lbx-ac/10
BAP
6/6 JJ
Full armor

Personally I'd drop the LB-10/X, a couple of JJs and the Beagle, go down to 61/68 armour on the legs, switch from MPLs to ML, and drop the Engine down to a 350. With the weight savings upgrade to a Gauss Rifle with 4 tons of ammo and add in Artemis for the SRMs. The number of times those 2.2 kph are going to be truly worthwhile are limited. Swapping the MPLs for MLs gives you much better heat control and having the Gauss means you've got a weapon that can damage armour, rather than just scratch paint.

My Victors share an XL350 (I've got a lot of c-bills, but why drop an extra 11.5 million c-bills for extra engines when it takes me 30 seconds to swap 'em out?). My -S runs AC/20 with 2 MPLs, triple streaks with 2 tons of ammo and Beagle. It's more of the Light Hunter. My -B also runs with AC/20 these days, backed up with SRM6 & 4 + Artemis and 2 MLs. In the past I tried it with a trio of AC/2s and paired uAC/5s, but I find that movement is life for the Victor, and that includes torso twist.

If you're staring at a target, DPS'ing it, you'll find that the return fire always seems to hit the side torso. This happened so often early on (my first Victor ran paired uAC/5s) that I nearly gave up on the Victor before getting it's basics done. Something like 18 out of 19 deaths with the thing were all from the STs getting blown out. Next time I try the DPS builds I'll probably put put in a Standard 280 which weighs the same as the XL 350, but that's nowhere near the 80 kph you want, so I'll leave that for another thread.

So, yeah, as others have said, XL350. I find that if you put in more you're sacrificing too much tonnage for speed.

[Azkor]

I run mine with an Xl380, 2 jets, 2 medium lasers , srm 4 srm 6 and an ac20, it is a total beast, Victors really do not die that easily and this machine runs at 85 kph with speed tweak. Torso twisting is really your strength as well as knowing how to use your jets properly in a brawl. it excels at hit and run tactics and with a 50 point alpha can really shred enemies. with a DS run that with 3 mediums and gauss with srm 4,6. I have really tried to minmax the {Scrap} out of this build, but it runs at max armor, (be sure to take some out of the back to buff the front torsos) what happens with a lot of other builds is sure, you can bring more firepower but can you really handle the heat? and the answer is no you really can't, especially on the hot maps more often than not is your lasers aren't being used or its not worth using the SRMs, the medium lasers bring great balance in this aspect because they do build less heat and you really can alpha with it a lot but also it has great dps to bring to the fight.

If you want help understanding this build, feel free to add me in game, and shoot me a message, I'll send a smurfy your way for it, the idea is you use your maneuverability to always end up behind larger enemies, firing the srms before you fly up, hit them with the 20 and the meds when you are over their heads, and then alpha in the back once you land. Reason you fly is most enemy assaults have limited reach above their heads, and most of their deadly weapons are located on the torso, jump on a brawler atlas and you negate his ac20 completely and his srms, on a close range highlander his lasers and srms and so on. When fighting enemy victors I always aim for the left torso, it houses the SRMs and the lasers attached to the arms, shoot those out and the mech is either left with just a cannon or the mech dies from XL explosion.

Edit: Run the same build with my Victor 9b

Dragon slayer and the K run a gauss rifle instead of the 20

Edit: I wouldn't run BAP if you don't have a weapon system that doesn't need it.

Edited by Azkor, 23 August 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Xasti]

I don't reuse builds from one chassiss to another. Why by a variant if you build it exactly like another model. Aside from xp grinding.

The VTR-9K is the only model with 6 jumpjet slots and the only one with 3 laser hard points. Its a shame to leave jj on the table when you can fit more.

At 80+ kph and 6 jj, its a fast, mobile brawler, not long range. The idea is to run with heavies and slower mediums or to hunt lights. The lbx and pulse definately help vs lights.i

The BAP is an odd choice. More meant for finding weak spots faster. Not to mention, in pugs, 80+kph can be considered scout speed.

Anyways it looks like high engine Victors is the general wisdom. Now to see what mechs i can fit a 350 or 360 xl on aside from victors.

[ShadowbaneX]

Xasti, on 24 August 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

I don't reuse builds from one chassiss to another. Why by a variant if you build it exactly like another model. Aside from xp grinding.

The VTR-9K is the only model with 6 jumpjet slots and the only one with 3 laser hard points. Its a shame to leave jj on the table when you can fit more.

Anyways it looks like high engine Victors is the general wisdom. Now to see what mechs i can fit a 350 or 360 xl on aside from victors.

I'll agree with that. Only reason why I run similar builds is for XP grinding.

I also definitely agree about the Jump Jets. Mechs with Jump Jets are better than those without. I kinda wish the 9S had the 6 JJ option. Like I said, I run MPLs there just because I had the extra tonnage. If I could have just gone with 6 JJs and gone with MLs instead I would have. That would make for a very fun mech to pilot.

Well, it's the conventional wisdom for single strike mechs. If you've got a DPS weapons like conventional lasers, or high cycle autocannons, then you're probably better with a slower standard engine.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 24 August 2013 - 10:01 PM.

[Bront]

I <3 my Victors with an XL360. Mobile, save HS space, and can still pack a good set of weapons.

I've run a 9K with Gaus and 4 tons of ammo, SRM 6 and 4 with 2 tons of ammo, 3 MLs, AMS, and 2 JJs and I think 480 points of armor. It's mobile, fast, and deadly without being super squishy. In PUGs, I would often follow lights around supporting when they'd cap, and it was kinda fun to see little mechs running scared when a Victor crests the hill rather than a Cent.

I ran an odd 2 ERPPC/AC20 9S for a while that was fun as well for the 40 pt Alpha, but that was pre-ERPPC heat increase, and it ran a little hot at times (at least for my liking), but it was a mobile death machine. Doesn't deal with lights very well unless you're really good at leading them, up close it's murder.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

A sweet spot for the victor seems to be the 340XL, still good speed and avoids that massive tonnage curve that hits the +350XL

Although, if you find yourself needing the extra HS slot... I guess you could go for it. But you really want the victor to move as quickly as possible without gimping its weapon loadout.

Speed + Mass (weapons) = Power. A 2xPPC Jenner going 138kph has just as much power as a Heavy Metal with 2xppc+Gauss going 64kph.

But for a more relevant comparison, you can make a sniper Phract go 86kph. You can make a Hlander go 64. The Victor needs its sweet spot right in the middle going ~70+ kph for it to be worth the +-10 tons.

[TyrEol]

I agree with the idea of not running identical builds on different variants

I like this on my vtr-9b, because I wanted something different to the dual UAC5 I was running on my vtr9-s and I'd seen some MG/LBX Jaggers that looked fun.

I think if you're going to run dual UAC5 or AC20 on a B you might as well use an S and have the extra missile point.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...058ada1bc739542

I'm sure it can be optimised at this point I'm using what I have, if you weren't set at 80kph then a 350 engine could give you more options such as this, which has the same alpha but better heat efficiency more SRM ammo and a few less kph

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6616b93722e188d