361 replies to this topic

[McBrahman]

Franklen Avignon, on 13 June 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

Nothing against the people arguing for no stats on this thread, but you are all arguing for your side for the wrong reasons.
[...]
You're arguing that because they stats make you feel bad, they shouldn't be there. Even worse, each of you are, essentially, saying the same line, "Personally, I don't care, but some people will be trolled by others for poor stats." If you don't care, then just don't care. Either learn to live with the stats the way they are, flaws and all, or just grow up and learn to ignore the trolls.

I dont care about stats, but ...

Franklen Avignon, on 13 June 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

, when you use illogical arguments to try to hammer your desires into others, I can't stand it, and it's not constructive.

[Pun Pundit]

Tobruk, on 13 June 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

I said "quite a few matches" not "no matches"
If youre going to quote me then have the decency to quote me correctly rather than twisting my words in order to take pathetic cheap shots at my character. WoT like MWO is a team game, If you have several fools on your team bickering over stats rather than concentrating on the match then it doesnt bode well for your teams chances. Would have thought that was obvious yet you try to misconstrue my comments as self serving bias.

Everyone has self-serving bias to some degree, it has nothing to do with your character, and I'm sorry if it came across as an ad hominem attack. You said you lost "quite a few matches" due to teammates flaming about stats - I am betting you won just as many due to your opponents flaming about stats. People who focus on the chat in the game instead of the gameplay will always find a way to lose matches from continually typing rather than playing, be it about stats, whether Rommel was a war criminal, or other inane things. Your comment implied that only the times this happened to your team did it affect the outcome, which was what led me to believe it was biased.

Oh, and Kettingzaag? If I ask for coherent arguments, arguments from omniscience ("everyone knows that") followed by erroneous reference to the game mechanics of World of Tanks really doesn't qualify.

[Death Mallet]

I really hope stats aren't tracked.

Stat obsession is ruining the game/community in WoT.

[WulfNine]

Franklen Avignon, on 13 June 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

You're arguing that because they stats make you feel bad, they shouldn't be there.

As I understand the argument against having public stats is that they serve no constructive purpose. I don't think anyone is against knowing where they stand vs. everyone else. I think the issue lies more in that public stats cause issues with game play. If you have people leave your game b/c they deem the rest of the players unworthy then that's a problem.

Even if you had stats and rankings where you only saw your own ranking compared to everyone else (having everyone else other than you blanked out) would work much better.

[BlindProphet]

Franklen Avignon, on 13 June 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

Anyone acquainted with ballistics will tell you that bullets never, ever travel in a straight line. I've heard the "out of the reticle" claim many times and I've personally never, ever seen it happen. I've fired hundreds of thousands of shots in that game and never once has it 'gone out of the reticle." I've had it do some funky stuff. I've had it travel through the empty 1% of a 99% filled reticle, but it's always been inside. Personally, I think the claims are a combination of people wanting to cover up bad shots they have taken and a lack of understanding of the perception differences between the gun's angle and the out-of-tank viewing angle.

I've seen it happens a few times, depends on lag ect. And remember theres the server crosshair vs the client crosshair, and that sometimes causes issues. Its not a rampant problem but it does occasionally exist.

Death Mallet, on 13 June 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

I really hope stats aren't tracked.

Stat obsession is ruining the game/community in WoT.

No its not. The community, as it is now is pretty much the same as it was before. It hasn't gotten worse, it hasn't gotten better. Its just is what it is.

[Akea]

Kettingzaag, on 13 June 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

Sure is 0 damage hits on top tier tanks, Pun.

Also, regarding the P2W trend in games these days, having cash items that influence gameplay in a major way, ie armour and munitions from a cash shop, sure sounds like a game based around skill.
Stats in a game with a cash shop are often times pretty funny. Do you remember APB?

that 0 dmg hits in WoT is a bugged module damage hit that the devs there wont bother fixing since now they are hard pressed to getting more content into the game moast likely due to MWO getting closer to launch or because the game hasnt evolved in 2 years.

and since u apparantly don understand the WoT economy mechanics ill explain
Normal bullets are decent, Gold bullets are Superior, ppl want the best stuff, the only way to get it is by buying it for GOLD which you can only achive in 2 ways 1 buying it with RL money 2 participate in territorial war (good luck without a tier 10 and gold ammo)
basicly WoT concepts a desire to have an edge, the only REAL edge in that game is gold ammo (gold tanks are good but they arent as good as the other tanks the same tier, and usually comes with a horrible driver ime)

But lets go back to MWO

[Sharkath]

I really like having stats, like said previously it gives players a chance to see where they need to improve and can give some indication of how well a player does. Though with that being said I would much rather have no stats than just having a win/lose/draw and/or kill/death. I think those alone prove more of a problem when you've got players acting selfishly (especially kill/death) and with the win/loss you need a decent amount of matches to really get an accurate reading.

For win/loss I really like Starcraft 2's take on it where you have x number of practice matches you can use before you actually start getting ranked. Allows for those opening losses due to newbie status to have a smaller effect on players.

I'd really like to see individual Mech stats and then an overall general stat board (Like pilot stats). Mech stats including things like wins/loss, accuracy, damage given, damage taken, ASSISTS, Team kills (assists that you and one or more others contributed 20% or more to), mechs spotted, backside shots, etc....

Thoughts?

[Captain Lockstep]

I personally find Win Rate stats annoying and/or pointless. Hit percentages and survival percentages could be very useful though. At least those can help you see where improvement is needed.

[Flagellum]

Stats are everything. If you have bad stats (i.e., below 48% win), you don't deserve a BattleMech.

[Reinholt]

Ian, on 12 June 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Average win rate in WoT is 46 percent.

Woot!!!! I'm average.

[Der Kopfsammler]

If the Kill/Death ratio had some logic on those MMO's just like on Combat Arms, then it would be taken some sense into it... But its not actually your fault when some hackers comes by and kills you 100 times in a match with codes...

But i know what you mean here. The Victory/Loss ratio is a bit faulty in WoT... its not our fault that some people decides to leave before the battle starts or if they play they let you as "food" for the enemy... This is preety much the reason why the average in WoT is low... ( plus match making... )

But like we all know now.. in MW:O the Mechs wont be divided by tiers or something... Every Mech is useful if you know what to do with it. So a large part of the fault if we screw up somewhere will be ours... we let ourselves down for trowing ourselves without any plan in front of enemy blasts... and we let the rest of the team down because every mech in this game was evenly balanced to have a set of "roles", on wich it will decide the success of the team.

So in all this, im not against K/D Ratios in MW:O, but if some people feel confortable with it i guess they must give people an option wich allows people to hide those stats (if they ever put those in game).

Edited by Der Kopfsammler, 13 June 2012 - 06:00 AM.

[Roland]

Win rate doesn't really matter much for an individual pilot, as whether or not you win is dependent upon your team, not any single person playing.

For instance, if I play with a bunch of randoms, I may not really expect to win. There's only so much any one pilot can do if the rest of the team is just running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

But for my actual unit, then the win rate starts to matter. If we lose, it's because we screwed up as a unit. So then it becomes a stat worth tracking.

[Flagellum]

Reinholt, on 13 June 2012 - 05:58 AM, said:

Woot!!!! I'm average.

No it's not 46%. Ave. win rate in WoT is around 48%-49% with 2% draws.

[akaChrisHimself]

I don't mind stat tracking as it gives you something to look at/do while you're at work, away from home etc... and not playing. Though it does always seem to decay into ******* contests when people lay too much importance on it.

EDIT: I meant the stats being accessible from the browser and not in game obviously...like BF3.

Edited by BaneReIIiK, 13 June 2012 - 06:06 AM.

[FaustianQ]

RedHairDave, on 13 June 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

/hurt feelings

Sorry that your skin is thin. I am professedly amazingly bad at BF3, doesn't hurt my feelings knowing that I have lots of room to improve or know little in comparison to someone who is actually good at the game. My opinion on balance for a game I am poor at =! someones opinion on said game where they are good at.

RedHairDave, on 13 June 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

well if you are winning alot, something you should be able to notice, then you are fine. if you arent then change your plan. you dont need stats to know that. there are lots of games without public stats and people do just fine.

How can I notice if I have nothing to measure it with besides cognitive bias. All it does is let D-K kids think they are hot ****.

RedHairDave, on 13 June 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

the only reason for public stats is to feel superior to someone else.

remember, your not special, neither am i, neither is anyone else.

Only reason not to have public stats is hurt feelings for those that can't pull their weight or have thin skin. If someone is legitimately better at the game then you, they don't need to feel superior, they are. Hurt feeling come out when someone somehow equates their value as a person to their value as player in a game - don't be those people.

Kettingzaag, on 13 June 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

http://wiki.worldoft...om/Gold_Economy
Refined core mechanics.

Like I said, you don't seem to understand WoT or you'd find the only thing that can be bought with gold to have any influence is also prohibitively expensive except for use in UC.

McBrahman, on 13 June 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

You missed the point. The math is easy and no doubt: it is rigth. The average from 4 and 6 is 5. But (and thats the point) what does it tells you? And as you can see in here it tells you what you want it to. Its more a religious thing than an scientific. And i am sure that no respectable scientist will judge a complex thing like "skill" (how ever to define) by a hand full of numbers.

The number 12.56% wont help you to get better. But the insight that you should fire short rounds instead of full clips will.

Not, it's actual math, not some faith based ideology. If someone is winning 60% of the time, and the objective is to win, then in comparison to someone with 40% wins, they are better at the objective of the game, they are more skilled. Trying to deny that results indicate capability is denying that a more productive employee is healthier for a company. Now, what that 60% player is doing to win more, you won't know until you look at he rest of the stats, which is why I advocate for even more stats then BF3/WoT gives. The more stats I have the more I can dissect my playing decisions and focus on improvement.

And I have you know my avg H/R is 14% in BF3

[Salakonir]

Coming from a clan in WoT that always looks at stats and such before adding them or even letting them in a tank company, I souly love the idea of not showing stats or give the player the option to keep them private, makes the game so much funner and you dont have to worry about that guy with 60% win rate acting like he's a god.

Edited by Salakonir, 13 June 2012 - 06:12 AM.

[Scarlett Avignon]

WulfNine, on 13 June 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

As I understand the argument against having public stats is that they serve no constructive purpose. I don't think anyone is against knowing where they stand vs. everyone else. I think the issue lies more in that public stats cause issues with game play. If you have people leave your game b/c they deem the rest of the players unworthy then that's a problem.

Even if you had stats and rankings where you only saw your own ranking compared to everyone else (having everyone else other than you blanked out) would work much better.

I 100% agree that if the stat recording program is so bad it's causing people to leave the game, it should be removed and reworked. I just don't want to see stats removed because people aren't capable of taking them in context and get butt-hurt.

[Xendojo]

I think the real problem outlined here is people who contribute less to a team in battle to make personal stats better( stat whores ), or people who use stats for griefing/flaming. Stats themselves don't do anything other than convey information, what people extrapolate from that info will be different depending on intent.

Some of my WoT stats out of about 7,200 battles :
49% win rate (in my best tank T110e5 its 52% in about 500 battles)
78% hit rate( in my T110e5 its 86%)

Just a small example here, but most people who look at my stats(XVM scrubs) will only see my overall stats which include all my grinding and sui-scout days. They will have no idea that i am one of the best T110 drivers out there, BESIDES the fact that i am a team player and don't pay attention to stats while i'm in battle. I'll eat bad stats any day to secure a win for my team, but sadly i am in a minority there.

I say YES to stats!! With the option to make them public in the players hands.

[WulfNine]

Franklen Avignon, on 13 June 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

Anyone acquainted with ballistics will tell you that bullets never, ever travel in a straight line. I've heard the "out of the reticle" claim many times and I've personally never, ever seen it happen.

Now you have

Edited by WulfNine, 13 June 2012 - 06:14 AM.

[SmackZ]

I dont care if they post stats or not, I'll shoot you no matter what ur stats say. I wont be getting christmas cards from any of you so I will still leg you. You can be the highest on the boards,but if I catch you unawares.......stats mean nothing "in the zone" so to me stats are just more browsing content. Honestly guys do you really care about the opinions of someone you dont even know or will never meet?