1555 replies to this topic

[Nekki Basara]

That's not fixed at all. You've gotta stop living in the imaginary future man.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Nekki Basara, on 23 October 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

.............

You have shown yourself to have no interest in listening to the potential of what is in the game (IE how Ghost Heat might NOT be as stupid as you want it to be)
You have shown yourself to have no interest in sitting down and having a civil discussion over it (or much of anything PGI has done, going by your post history.)

For that, I fear you label yourself as, at best, a malcontent, and at worst a deliberate troll.

I wish you luck finding a game you can enjoy, and welcome to further up my ignore list: I will now not see ANYTHING you post.
Feel free to rage and scream at me, call me a {Noble MechWarrior} or whatever term you wish.

Have a nice day (and I do not mean that in sarcasm)

Edit: Fun times! I learned something today.
For being the first to move that far up my ignore list, you have helped me learn that it labels where you post, so if someone is responding to you, it doesn't appear that they are talking to thin air. That is kinda neat.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 23 October 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[Chronojam]

Shar Wolf, on 23 October 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

You have shown yourself to have no interest in listening to the potential of what is in the game (IE how Ghost Heat might NOT be as stupid as you want it to be)

Players can't explain it, and the devs can't explain it, and it doesn't do what it's supposed to do and has damaging effects it's not supposed to. Furthermore, it appears the development time used on ghost heat cut into other gameplay facets. That's about as stupid as it gets.

[Nekki Basara]

Bless, so desperate to have the last word that he has to not only ignore me, but ignore me HARDER! . You keep on fightin' the good fight man, ignore that logic hard and that'll make it go away.

[Rift Hawk]

Nekki Basara, on 23 October 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

People miss your point because you are terrible at making it or it's a stupid point. If the boomjager was a problem then it would be punching above it's weight, which it wasn't. It clearly was not broken and didn't need fixing. My Jenner also didn't worry about them, for entirely different reasons and that was at a 35 ton disadvantage.

Also, guess what? There are no duels in this game.
ETA: ZING! I'd post a screenshot of my mechbay but that'd require patching and you'd accuse me of fitting a pair of AC20 on my Centurion via goonhax or some similar terrible publord logic.

As opposed to what ? Your non terrible, non publord logic ? Funny how you think talking **** about someone pubbing in a game where pubbing is the only real thing to do (other than running 12v12 with the same people time after time) is some sort of witty insult. Its not. Your also not some elite mechwarrior because you run 12v12s.

Nekki Basara, on 23 October 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Bless, so desperate to have the last word that he has to not only ignore me, but ignore me HARDER! . You keep on fightin' the good fight man, ignore that logic hard and that'll make it go away.

I've seen very little logic in any post you've put up thus far. Just a lot of "I'm mad" posts. Why exactly do you think that voicing your discontent here is going to change anything ? The devs have already said its staying. Perhaps not forever but its staying for quite some time. Live with it or go play something else. None of this is going to make it go away.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Chronojam, on 23 October 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Players can't explain it, and the devs can't explain it, and it doesn't do what it's supposed to do and has damaging effects it's not supposed to. Furthermore, it appears the development time used on ghost heat cut into other gameplay facets. That's about as stupid as it gets.

Players HAVE explained it - and so have the developers.
At that point you have a few choices.
1) You can treat it like I treat algebra: it makes sense to others and apparently does what it is supposed to (here is a hint: ghost heat is doing what it is supposed to) so the fact that I do not get it is a problem with me, not them/it.

2) You can throw a fit and act like my 3 year old niece when told she cannot have the candy bar.

Intriguing that so many people insist on the second, when that makes it even more likely that PGI will not listen to them, even when they possibly should.

Fun fact: not only are the multiple levels of "ignore" the default only blocks private messages.
You can also choose to simply ignore their Sig (or everyone sigs as a separate feature )
Also:
1) It apparently does not block you when people quote you (interesting loophole there)

2) Only a fool completely ignores people the first time they irritate them:
Me upping the ignore and letting you know was meant as a polite warning that I will no longer even be seeing your posts (which is a little counter-intuitive to me, as I would have assumed that to be one of the first functions of an ignore feature)

[Chronojam]

eh forget it.

Edited by Chronojam, 23 October 2013 - 10:00 PM.

[Nekki Basara]

Imperial X, on 23 October 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

I've seen very little logic in any post you've put up thus far. Just a lot of "I'm mad" posts.

We've tried taking the horse to water, we've tried just bringing the water to the horse.

Lookin' mighty dehydrated.

[Cimarb]

Chronojam, on 23 October 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

eh forget it.

LOL, I have felt the very same way many, many times.

I almost liked your post, actually, but I saw a Texas guy liked it, so figured the original content was horrible before your edit... That brings up an interesting point, though - if I like a post, but then the whole thing is edited, the system doesn't notify me of the edit, so all of these posts that I have been liking could, eventually, be modified to things I seriously disagree with, which stinks pretty bad...

[Wales Grey]

Shar Wolf, on 23 October 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Ghost heat is dumb. It doesn't do what it was meant to do, namely fix a non-problem.

We used up our words and patience explaining why it was bad like three months ago.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Wales Grey, on 24 October 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Ghost heat is dumb. It doesn't do what it was meant to do, namely fix a non-problem.

It IS dumb I will grant you that - but it DOES do what it was supposed to: nerf alpha striking.
It may not do it as well as other methods might have, but it does it, no?

Your posts (whatever you may have meant by them) are literally phrased as "I don't like it so it sucks - and everyone defending anything I don't like is obviously ********"

I would wish you a nice day: but you sir - you I have little doubt about your chances of that so long as you remain anywhere near this game or it's forums.
Welcome to the same level of ignorage as Nekki.
Makes me honestly wonder why Nekki was the first to reach that level.

[Wales Grey]

Shar Wolf, on 24 October 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

It IS dumb I will grant you that - but it DOES do what it was supposed to: nerf alpha striking.
It may not do it as well as other methods might have, but it does it, no?

Man, cutting off my arm to get rid of my broken finger did what it was supposed to do!

[Alaskan Nobody]

Intriguingly enough - it still informs me when people on my ignore list quote me.

I have no clue what you are saying sir Wales Gray: but it easy enough to assume it is meant as mockery.
Boy now that was easy wasn't it?

I shall now leave this topic, as it is quite unhealthy to, as they say, feed the trolls?
Have a nice life sir Wales, supposing you have one anyways.

Edit: for those of you curious, the only people on my ignore lists are people like the two above, who when attempting to discuss things, spend more time mocking the other than fighting the claims:

Nekki Basara, on 23 October 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

People miss your point because you are terrible at making it or it's a stupid point.
.......................
ETA: ZING!

Nekki Basara, on 24 October 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

We've tried taking the horse to water, we've tried just bringing the water to the horse.

Lookin' mighty dehydrated.

Neither of which is actually a counter argument - especially as the only 'leading a horse to water' you two have done is well summarized in the first quote.

Edited Edit: I would consider Ghost Heat to be about as intelligent yet more easy to understand/work with than D&D's Wizard-Magic mechanics: big difference is that D&D gets to call their limitation 'magic'

Edited by Shar Wolf, 24 October 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[Hastur Azargo]

Heffay, on 22 October 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

Conduction. Superconductors (which are also thermic superconductors strictly by definition) could provide a path for the heat from the weapon systems and engine to the heat sink.

It's kind of a moot point. It works because it works.

Fair enough. Also, you're awesome. I wish more people went and made community gems like "What does the mech say?". Kudos

Nekki Basara, on 22 October 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

They were the only thing that had the range to hit back other than more PPCs and Gauss, and the poptart arc was predictable enough that you could get a decent amount of damage onto the mech before it hit, so if you had any focus-fire ability at all you would generally hurt the poptart enough to make it possible for your lights to finish it. The previous "Rhino" style Stalker builds far out-damaged them up close but were rendered extinct by the advent of the Highlander.

At mere 450m effective, LLs had the range to counter the poptarts? Hurt it so your lights could finish it, while enemy lights were sleeping on the couch? I'm sorry, I have to disagree. I didn't see any poptarts run away from 6LL Stalkers, nor people taking 6LL Stalkers to counter poptarts. What I've seen though was poptarts and 6LL/4-6PPC Stalkers eliminate all mediums and heavies, and then proceed to bludgeon each other in a game of whack-a-mole with bazookas.

Nekki Basara, on 22 October 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

4 PPC builds were moderately inconvenienced and are still alive and well. 6 PPC builds were always a joke build. If you regularly died to them then you are a terrible pilot.

For indignity of appearing in their sights long enough for them to aim and fire once, I assume? And the experience of being stuck in a medium with a red side-torso after taking just one hit is the sufficient punishment, eh? Makes sense.

Nekki Basara, on 23 October 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Have you not seen the dual AC-20 + Meds to taste Jaegers? BOOM to dent and then use the lasers to try finish drilling through once the damage is on the paperdoll. TBH the AC-20 builds weren't a problem anyway, when I saw them in my Stalker I knew they had sacrificed either armour or speed to get those in there and I could out-damage them anyway while rolling the torso.

Of course, because 40 points of instant pinpoint damage wasn't enough, and the poor, barely viable Jager had to be able to put 10 more points of damage into that same target for a grand effect of killing it over a course of 1 second. That, or it's a joke build. Of course, it wasn't a problem for Stalkers and Jenners, so it's not worth even talking about. Other chassis? What other chassis?

Chronojam, on 23 October 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Players can't explain it, and the devs can't explain it, and it doesn't do what it's supposed to do and has damaging effects it's not supposed to. Furthermore, it appears the development time used on ghost heat cut into other gameplay facets. That's about as stupid as it gets.

I feel kinda bad as I'm having to say this about a fellow human being, but here Chronojam is experiencing some sort of a reality warp. Because Devs did explain it, and to some players it did make sense (without delving into percentages, which none of us have). GH does do what it was supposed to do, namely, prevents players from firing too many weapons at once, serving along PGI's stated goal of increasing time-to-kill on all mechs. Also, in a way of hurting other builds (I'm still at a loss of thinking of too many setups that were rendered completely unplayable), it didn't do much either. You want to play your 4LPL setup, fine, just fire the pairs with 0.5 sec interval. Not that I'd consider a 42.4 point alpha build devoid of stench of cheese, but that's just me.

Finally, the dev time comparison is also out of place. Once PGI deemed GH necessary, it wouldn't make sense to postpone it until after CW, either because it was tiny in comparison and could have been done quickly, or because after CW came and matches meant more, players would have an even harder time adapting to GH. Assuming you see it as evil, wouldn't you rather have it now and decide what you're gonna do about MWO now, rather than after CW came?

Nekki Basara, on 24 October 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

We've tried taking the horse to water, we've tried just bringing the water to the horse.

Lookin' mighty dehydrated.

And herein lies the problem. You guys trust your own impressions more than some priests believe in God. You don't try to understand what others are saying, past the fact that they feel differently and disagree with you. You just take your impressions, form an opinion and run with it. And you leave nobody else any breathing space, and branding anyone who disagrees "publords" and "terrible pilots" doesn't help either.

Did you realize that explanation on GH that would satisfy you doesn't exist, simply because you liked the bursty high-dps meta so much that anything that removed it would make you discontent? Can you pause for a moment and realize that the world is a big place, and your perception of it, while possibly clever and extensive, would still be vastly incomplete? Did you tolerate a thought that the fact the horse still looks mighty dehydrated to you, doesn't mean that it's thirsty, or actually dehydrated, or even that it's a horse? Don't trust your own feelings and impressions too much. If what you have is an alligator, you're just gonna torture yourself by trying to ride it like a horse, and the longer you do that, the worse it's gonna feel, for both you and actual alligator enthusiasts.

You know, I don't doubt about your fair intentions in making everyone see the "truth", nor do I mind your seemingly bad temper, because, as a recent article on themittani described, general (normal and common) player behavior lead CCP to make player characters be represented in EVE lore as immortal uncaring evil psychotics. This is the internet, after all.

However you take it all to the next level when you speak without adding "IMO", and when everything you feel is right is treated like historical truth. Beceause of this, PGI's course of shifting this game towards a different meta of longer life expectancy on the battlefield, away from CoD-esque instagibbing, with which some players agree and some don't, is treated by you like heresy, sacrilege, and general worship of evil.

And while I appreciate the constructive input the Goons have had on so many games, your particular input here is one of discontent about arguable, but still valid course a game company is taking with their game. I'm sorry that it killed the game for you, but this simply isn't the Mechwarrior you're looking for.

Should PGI be swayed by you after all and bring back the bursty meta, I'll probably quit it quietly, despite having cosmic confidence in the wrongness of PGI's decision, and I won't mind if you come back and enjoy it then. I'd actually be happy to know that someone out there is finally riding the horse they were waiting for.

Edited by Azargo, 25 October 2013 - 04:36 AM.

[Heffay]

Azargo, on 25 October 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

Also, you're awesome.

Most correct thing ever said in this thread. And thank you!

Azargo, on 25 October 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

And herein lies the problem. You guys trust your own impressions more than some priests believe in God.

They were having fun running 4 Stalker 3F drops. PGI took that fun away from them and that is the source of their anger. It has nothing to do with mock outrage over ghost heat.

It's similar to when Blizzard nerfs mages (aka the Drama QQueens of Azeroth). "Dammit Blizzard, you have no idea what you're doing! Mages are hard mode and should be buffed! Waaah!"

[3Xtr3m3]

Azargo, on 25 October 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

Fair enough. Also, you're awesome. I wish more people went and made community gems like "What does the mech say?". Kudos



At mere 450m effective, LLs had the range to counter the poptarts? Hurt it so your lights could finish it, while enemy lights were sleeping on the couch? I'm sorry, I have to disagree. I didn't see any poptarts run away from 6LL Stalkers, nor people taking 6LL Stalkers to counter poptarts. What I've seen though was poptarts and 6LL/4-6PPC Stalkers eliminate all mediums and heavies, and then proceed to bludgeon each other in a game of whack-a-mole with bazookas.




For indignity of appearing in their sights long enough for them to aim and fire once, I assume? And the experience of being stuck in a medium with a red side-torso after taking just one hit is the sufficient punishment, eh? Makes sense.




Of course, because 40 points of instant pinpoint damage wasn't enough, and the poor, barely viable Jager had to be able to put 10 more points of damage into that same target for a grand effect of killing it over a course of 1 second. That, or it's a joke build. Of course, it wasn't a problem for Stalkers and Jenners, so it's not worth even talking about. Other chassis? What other chassis?



I feel kinda bad as I'm having to say this about a fellow human being, but here Chronojam is experiencing some sort of a reality warp. Because Devs did explain it, and to some players it did make sense (without delving into percentages, which none of us have). GH does do what it was supposed to do, namely, prevents players from firing too many weapons at once, serving along PGI's stated goal of increasing time-to-kill on all mechs. Also, in a way of hurting other builds (I'm still at a loss of thinking of too many setups that were rendered completely unplayable), it didn't do much either. You want to play your 4LPL setup, fine, just fire the pairs with 0.5 sec interval. Not that I'd consider a 42.4 point alpha build devoid of stench of cheese, but that's just me.

Finally, the dev time comparison is also out of place. Once PGI deemed GH necessary, it wouldn't make sense to postpone it until after CW, either because it was tiny in comparison and could have been done quickly, or because after CW came and matches meant more, players would have an even harder time adapting to GH. Assuming you see it as evil, wouldn't you rather have it now and decide what you're gonna do about MWO now, rather than after CW came?



And herein lies the problem. You guys trust your own impressions more than some priests believe in God. You don't try to understand what others are saying, past the fact that they feel differently and disagree with you. You just take your impressions, form an opinion and run with it. And you leave nobody else any breathing space, and branding anyone who disagrees "publords" and "terrible pilots" doesn't help either.

Did you realize that explanation on GH that would satisfy you doesn't exist, simply because you liked the bursty high-dps meta so much that anything that removed it would make you discontent? Can you pause for a moment and realize that the world is a big place, and your perception of it, while possibly clever and extensive, would still be vastly incomplete? Did you tolerate a thought that the fact the horse still looks mighty dehydrated to you, doesn't mean that it's thirsty, or actually dehydrated, or even that it's a horse? Don't trust your own feelings and impressions too much. If what you have is an alligator, you're just gonna torture yourself by trying to ride it like a horse, and the longer you do that, the worse it's gonna feel, for both you and actual alligator enthusiasts.

You know, I don't doubt about your fair intentions in making everyone see the "truth", nor do I mind your seemingly bad temper, because, as a recent article on themittani described, general (normal and common) player behavior lead CCP to make player characters be represented in EVE lore as immortal uncaring evil psychotics. This is the internet, after all.

However you take it all to the next level when you speak without adding "IMO", and when everything you feel is right is treated like historical truth. Beceause of this, PGI's course of shifting this game towards a different meta of longer life expectancy on the battlefield, away from CoD-esque instagibbing, with which some players agree and some don't, is treated by you like heresy, sacrilege, and general worship of evil.

And while I appreciate the constructive input the Goons have had on so many games, your particular input here is one of discontent about arguable, but still valid course a game company is taking with their game. I'm sorry that it killed the game for you, but this simply isn't the Mechwarrior you're looking for.

Should PGI be swayed by you after all and bring back the bursty meta, I'll probably quit it quietly, despite having cosmic confidence in the wrongness of PGI's decision, and I won't mind if you come back and enjoy it then. I'd actually be happy to know that someone out there is finally riding the horse they were waiting for.

You, I like.

[CeeKay Boques]

Please move Phoenix colors to the "Unlocked" area thank you~!

[Nekki Basara]

Azargo, on 25 October 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

Lots of stuff.

I'm not going to quote you point by point because you posted a lot and made a few assumptions, so I'll just condense a bit:

You seem to like piloting mediums or at least be aware that they are suffering in the high-alpha metagame. The current situation they occupy is a bad one, since the mech scaling makes them a proportionally easier target than they should be, as easy to hit as heavies without any of the durability. The solution to this would be to increase durability across the board, so the first mistake stops being lethal for them, as has been suggested elsewhere a number of times. The game I want is the one where my mech clomps around taking sustained fire for minutes before falling over, not the current step out of cover and get cored meta that exists now and which Ghost Heat did very little to address.

Now, the other tweaks to weapon fire have worked far better to at least inconvenience the previously dominant meta by requiring better timing and skill, but we are still left with nonsensical crippling of canon builds functioning as newbie traps and the oddness of chain-firing AC2s shutting you down faster than doing the same with ERPPCs.

[William Knight]

Since ghost heat was introduced my HBK-4G is doing o.k, so it must be doing something right.

[Vaderman]

Technoviking, on 25 October 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Please move Phoenix colors to the "Unlocked" area thank you~!

I'm assuming you mean in the mechlab? They are already listed in the unlocked paint's, at least in my game.

Or are you saying unlocked for people who didn't purchase a Phoenix package?