42 replies to this topic

[Fishbrane]

Khobai, on 17 August 2013 - 02:38 AM, said:

Honestly all these mechs are pretty uninspired. Its more of the same old mechs we already have. PGI really needs to do something differentiate the mechs more.

How dare you...

None of these mechs have been in a mechwarrior game since Mechwarrior. The original Mechwarrior in all of its 16 color glory.

The Thunderbolt has never been in a game unless maybe Mektek built one. What, you don't get excited about the predecessor to the Thor/Summoner?

You need a hug if these mechs dont make you happy.

[Carrioncrows]

One Medic Army, on 17 August 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Sorry to say, but that's such an inefficient use of the chassis I can make near equivalent loadouts off of several lighter mechs.
The closest being http://mwo.smurfy-ne...68a66c836d1e94b
20 tons less, 67 less armor, 3.6 kph faster, 3 more DHS, and 1 less medium laser.

I only hope the battlemasters on my team don't spend so much tonnage on their engine they have the weapons of a medium mech.

Oh it completely is, and it's going to be a hoot to drive.

Save the competitive stuff for Community warfare, Pug's are meant to be wacky.

Sides nobody fears the Jager, but a 85 ton Battlemaster that even medium mechs can't get away from is so Jugger-naughty.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Khobai, on 17 August 2013 - 02:38 AM, said:

These are the canon hardpoints and locations:

Locust-3M
CT: 1 energy
RA: 2 energy
LA: 2 energy
x2 AMS

Locust-3S
CT: 1 energy
RA: 1 missile
LA: 1 missile

Shadowhawk-2D2
RA: 1 energy
LA: 1 energy
RT: 1 missile
LT: 1 ballistic
CT: 1 missile
HD: 1 missile
x3 JJ

Shadowhawk-5M
RA: x1 energy
RT: x1 missile
LT: x1 ballistic
HD: x1 missile
x5 JJ

Thunderbolt-5SS
RA: 1 energy
RT: 1 energy
LT: 3 energy + 1 missile

Thunderbolt-9SE
RA: 1 energy
LT: 3 energy + 1 missile
x4 JJ

Battlemaster-1D
RA: 2 Ballistic
LA: 1 Energy
RT: 2 Energy
LT: 2 Energy

Battlemaster-1S
RA: 1 Missile
LA: 1 Missile
RT: 2 Energy
LT: 2 Energy + 2 Missile

Honestly all these mechs are pretty uninspired. Its more of the same old mechs we already have. PGI really needs to do something differentiate the mechs more.

Your forgetting size and shape.

Size and shape can make a break a mech, just look at the Awesome. Also lets face it each mech only has 3 different types of weapons slots and 6 places to mount them, 2 of which are rather limited, the CT and the Head. Of course the hardpoint locations are going to become redundant at some point.

It all comes back to size and shape being the biggest differences between mechs. For example the Battlemaster 1S might become the premier missile boat simply because it doesn't lose its Side Torsos as easily or the T-bolt will replace the Awesome as worst mech due to being equally as wide while also having a huge tumor on its right shoulder to shoot at.

[General Taskeen]

Viktor Drake, on 17 August 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

It all comes back to size and shape being the biggest differences between mechs. For example the Battlemaster 1S might become the premier missile boat simply because it doesn't lose its Side Torsos as easily or the T-bolt will replace the Awesome as worst mech due to being equally as wide while also having a huge tumor on its right shoulder to shoot at.

True, but let's hope they play it smart with the hitboxes.

For the TBolt, they either need to A. Give the missile box portion a damage resistance to that area or B. Make hitting that portion of the Mech do 0 Damage. Same thing for the AC sticking out of the Shadowhawk.

Something like that should have been done long ago for the huge Hunch version of the Hunchbacks. While it looks cool to make Mechs look that way, it definitely hurts them in game-play where other Mechs have none of those types of unbalanced hitboxes.

[A Man In A Can]

Anybody else catch the silent time jump suggested by the Shadowhawk 2D2 and Thunderbolt 9SE variants?

The 2D2 alone means once it is released the game year becomes 3052...

Well, darn. Apparently both are 3049. False alarm then.

Edited by CYBRN4CR, 17 August 2013 - 11:09 PM.

[One Medic Army]

CYBRN4CR, on 17 August 2013 - 06:40 PM, said:

Anybody else catch the silent time jump suggested by the Shadowhawk 2D2 and Thunderbolt 9SE variants?

The 2D2 alone means once it is released the game year becomes 3052...

The 9SE is listed at 3049 in the MUL.

[Carrioncrows]

One Medic Army, on 17 August 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

The 9SE is listed at 3049 in the MUL.

We already know that Faction Specific variants are coming with Community Warfare, perhaps they are saving it for exactly that, to fill in some of those gaps.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 17 August 2013 - 07:34 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Your forgetting size and shape.

The shape of all the mechs is known though, its on the phoenix mech page. None of them really have especially well-placed hardpoints. The battlemaster isnt outdoing the stalker anytime soon. The thunderbolt is pretty much just a way worse quickdraw. The shadowhawk has potential, since its kindve like a centurion with jumpjets, but if the scaling is even the slightest bit off on it itll be about as useful as a Kintaro. And lastly I think we all agree the Locust is gonna be totally useless, especially if it cant even outrun a Jenner.

[A Man In A Can]

One Medic Army, on 17 August 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

The 9SE is listed at 3049 in the MUL.

Really? It's listed as 3051 in Solaris Skunk Werks. I'll have to double check that. At least the 2D2 then.

[One Medic Army]

CYBRN4CR, on 17 August 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Really? It's listed as 3051 in Solaris Skunk Werks. I'll have to double check that. At least the 2D2 then.

Apparently MUL also lists the 2D2 as 3049.

Yeah, I used the Skunkwerks as my basic reference as well.

[A Man In A Can]

One Medic Army, on 17 August 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Apparently MUL also lists the 2D2 as 3049.

Yeah, I used the Skunkwerks as my basic reference as well.

Dang. That one too? Sheesh.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Khobai, on 17 August 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

The shape of all the mechs is known though, its on the phoenix mech page. None of them really have especially well-placed hardpoints. The battlemaster isnt outdoing the stalker anytime soon. The thunderbolt is pretty much just a way worse quickdraw. The shadowhawk has potential, since its kindve like a centurion with jumpjets, but if the scaling is even the slightest bit off on it itll be about as useful as a Kintaro. And lastly I think we all agree the Locust is gonna be totally useless, especially if it cant even outrun a Jenner.

Yes we can look at the mechs but we all know that the concept art and the in game model alot of times don't look quite the same. Also while we can generalize what we think the hitboxes are going to be like, we don't know for sure. Lastly, it isn't until you get them into a match that you really know how they will perform. Take the Quickdraw for example, just by looking at it you would think that it has fairly vulnerable side torsos making it hard to run a XL on it. However for whatever reason, I have only had my side torso blown out like half a dozen times in over 200 matches. Another example is the skinny torso on the Centurion combined with the damage model for the arms which work to protect the side and center torso even after the arm is destroyed.

These sort of factors can't be accounted for until actual field testing and can have a huge effect on if a mech is good or not. This is why I say it might be possible for the missile variant of the Battlemaster to take a Stalkers place. It is the same weight, has about the same amount and type of hardpoints without the huge side torsos that make using an XL sucide in a Stalker. It also has fully articulated arms and will likely have a better torso twist range eliminating one of the most major weaknesses that a Stalker has.

Picture a Battlemaster running Quad SRM6s + Artemis, Dual ER PPCs and Dual MLs + 16 DHS + mounting a big XL capable of getting speeds up into the 70-75 KPH range without it being sucide and I think you have a contender as a replacement for a Stalker.

Anyway, we just won't know how good or bad these mechs will be till we get them into matches and aside from a few cases, hardpoints aren't going to be what makes or breaks them, size and shape is.

[Angel of Annihilation]

One Medic Army, on 17 August 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

I only hope the battlemasters on my team don't spend so much tonnage on their engine they have the weapons of a medium mech.

Look at this beastly Battlemaster

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0c71f474d78c3f5

400XL running it at almost 84 kph,
1 LPL, 6 ML, 1 SRM6, 2 MGs
52.80 Alpha Damage
20 DHS
526 Armor (maximum amount)

I think it is pretty safe to say that you can actually have a massive engine plus have plenty of weapons too. I think this might even be my starting build for this mech though I am not looking forward to saving 6 million for that engine.

[One Medic Army]

Viktor Drake, on 18 August 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

Look at this beastly Battlemaster

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0c71f474d78c3f5

400XL running it at almost 84 kph,
1 LPL, 6 ML, 1 SRM6, 2 MGs
52.80 Alpha Damage
20 DHS
526 Armor (maximum amount)

I think it is pretty safe to say that you can actually have a massive engine plus have plenty of weapons too. I think this might even be my starting build for this mech though I am not looking forward to saving 6 million for that engine.

The difference is you used an XL engine.
He used a 375standard which is waaaaay past the efficient range for an 85tonner of 325-340.

Heck, here's my build which uses a 370xl, and could definitely be up-engined by anyone who doesn't like AC/5s as much as me.

Edited by One Medic Army, 18 August 2013 - 12:59 AM.

[OneEyed Jack]

I find it somewhat odd they neglected to include one of the dual-cockpit Battlemasters. Maybe they'll put one in after they find a use for Command Modules?

I'm rather disappointed it doesn't carry a pistol-like PPC. I was kinda hoping there would be a Red Corsair hero with dual pistols, but this design would make it kinda.... meh.

[Grey Ghost]

Viktor Drake, on 18 August 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

Look at this beastly Battlemaster

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0c71f474d78c3f5

400XL running it at almost 84 kph,
1 LPL, 6 ML, 1 SRM6, 2 MGs
52.80 Alpha Damage
20 DHS
526 Armor (maximum amount)

If I was going to go full on 400XL I'd drop 1 heatsink, add an AMS +1ton ammo, and change the LPL to a ER-PPC, because it would be nice to have at least one long range weapon.

[MaxStr]

Why are the Pheonix mechs more than twice as large as the standard variants, we will get cored so fast PGI!

On a serious note, I was sort of expecting actual information on hardpoints, layouts, and stock equipment, bit of a misleading 'release'. Glad to see one Battlemaster variant will probably have an interesting loadout, though its basically going to be a humanoid stalker. Not sure if if I think thats lame or awesome.

[James The Fox Dixon]

It's a shame that PGI didn't make one of the Shadowhawk variants to be the 5S. The 5S carries 1 LL, 1 MPL, 4 ML, BAP, TAG, and ECM. That would be the ultimate Shadowhawk variant due to the electronics suite.

[ShadowbaneX]

James The Fox Dixon, on 18 August 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

It's a shame that PGI didn't make one of the Shadowhawk variants to be the 5S. The 5S carries 1 LL, 1 MPL, 4 ML, BAP, TAG, and ECM. That would be the ultimate Shadowhawk variant due to the electronics suite.

The 5S was only released in a magazine and isn't entirely cannon.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ShadowbaneX, on 18 August 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

The 5S was only released in a magazine and isn't entirely cannon.

It's apocryphal which is sad, but it still wouldn't prevent PGI from putting it in.