9 replies to this topic

[Kushko]

...you remove the horribly unoriginal, punishing and quite frankly idiotic system that is the "you need 3 variants to master the mech" system.

Every since closed beta i've quite frankly been shocked at this progress system PGI put in to their game. Every time i buy a new mech the excitement is ruined by the fact that i will be forced to buy another 2 of pretty much the exact same mech (and lets be honest only a couple mechs variants actually change the play style enough for someone to want to try them...catapult comes to mind with the K2). There's nothing fun and exciting about this system and the fact its still in the game with release being so close is just amazing.

I somewhat understood PGIs reasoning behind it when we only had a handful of mechs to play around with as it gave the game a false sense of progression without the actual content to back it up, but the number of available mechs has been growing pretty steadily and i don't think that reason is valid anymore. Besides that i assume the system was made up by PGI brilliance to entice (force) players to get more and more mechbays. But to be honest i would much prefer a mechbay costing 600MC or even 900MC instead of being forced to have 3 almost identical mechs in my mechlab.

Mechs that should feel exciting and unique to obtain, do not. The grind that should eventually feel rewarding instead feels tedious and punishing. The new economy is fine, heck you could even lower it slightly more. The poorly thought out progression system however is not.

In the end i know nothing will change because frankly PGI is the king of "we know whats best for you" even though the harsh reality is that they have proven time and time again that they haven't the slightest idea.

/rant off

*edit*
So this wont just be another rant, here are alternative ideas to the xp progression:
After removing the 3 variant travesty, they could/should add more master level skills that give each variant extra quirks. They could cost about the same as the current master skills (20-30k xp each).

For example the energy weapon focused Awsome could have:
-skill that makes it so it can alpha 3 PPCs without the ghost heat
-skill that increases the rate of fire of energy beams by 5%
-skill that increases its overall heat threshold
The missile Awsome could have missile skills (like LRM missile speed or faster lock on, etc).

Of course the bonuses should be minor for easier balance purposes and some of the variants are just too similar to have totally unique skills/quirks but in general i personally feel this kind of progression would be incomparably better and more fun than the current mess.

Edited by Kushko, 16 August 2013 - 03:44 AM.

[tuffy963]

Great observations! Totally agree with your suggestions.

[Lostdragon]

Having to buy and play 3 variants is really off putting. I would love to try a Raven 3L but I would rather not ever play it than play the other two Raven variants because they are so gimped due to their pathetic engine limits. The problem is also exacerbated in my mind because there is not much difference in variants in a lot of the recent mechs. The Quickdraw, Victor, and Kintaro variants all have pretty similar hardpoints, so when I look at them I see one that is clearly the best for how I would like to play the chassis and other variants I would probably wind up playing with almost the exact same build.

A big part of the reason for that is I know there are only a handful of weapons that are viable. The ability of a chassis to mount these few weapons in high enough numbers to be effective but not so high as to suffer from the most asinine game mechanic ever (ghost heat) along with max engine rating really limits the number of effective builds and restricts creativity needed to build variants that are sufficiently different from one another to not be boring.

Basically the devs have created a shitstorm. If you want to win and be effective you have to play a few certain types of loadouts. Currently these are sniping with a GR and PPCs, brawling with MLs, AC20, and SRMs, and missile boating with LRMs. If you equip other weapons you are voluntarily handicapping yourself and reducing your effectiveness.

When chassis variants are very similar like the Quickdraw, Victor, and Kintaro you wind up playing two variants with almost the exact same build and one with the only other build the chassis can accommodate. Sure you can play a build that uses LPLs or an LBX10 and you might have some fun with it but overall it is not going to be as effective as a build which leverages the power of the best weapons in the game.

What is perhaps most frustrating is the system which was put in place with the goal of reducing pinpoint alpha damage and shifting the meta has done nothing but reinforce a few weapons and builds as the only ones that are truly viable and competitive. The buff to SRM damage helped them but 2xPPX +GR is still the king of the battlefield and for some reaon firing more than 2 LLs or LPLs is unacceptable.

I get why PGI wants people to play three variants, but in order to make that actually be fun they need to balance weapons so that the best weapons are not orders of magnitude better than the worst weapons like we see right now. This will enable players to create unique and effective builds with each variant instead of taking one of three cookie cutter builds and tweaking it to fit the variant.

Edited by Lostdragon, 16 August 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[Kushko]

To be honest, my one true hope of a system where you only need 1 "variant" of a certain mech chassis, is with the introduction of clan OmniMechs. I just hope to god PGI in their infinite wisdom doesnt force a similar "you need 3 to master" progression on a mech that is literary designed to have its hardpoints interchangeable on a single mech.

[Lostdragon]

Kushko, on 16 August 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

To be honest, my one true hope of a system where you only need 1 "variant" of a certain mech chassis, is with the introduction of clan OmniMechs. I just hope to god PGI in their infinite wisdom doesnt force a similar "you need 3 to master" progression on a mech that is literary designed to have its hardpoints interchangeable on a single mech.

If it does work like that I'm sure omnimechs will be 3 times as expensive as their IS counterparts and take longer to get maxed out efficiencies. At least you wouldn't have to waste time playing variants you don't like though.

[Kushko]

Lostdragon, on 16 August 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

If it does work like that I'm sure omnimechs will be 3 times as expensive as their IS counterparts and take longer to get maxed out efficiencies. At least you wouldn't have to waste time playing variants you don't like though.

Im actually ok with that. I dont mind hard work, as long as it doesnt feel pointless and punishing.

[Cybermech]

Don't get the main issue.
What your looking for is a non f2p game.
This is not and thus has to take on roles of pushing things on people.
I know some don't have all the time to grind and they get hurt the most out of this system.
There normally nothing wrong with grinding out 3 mechs, think raven is the worst though.
1 of the dragons too me extra time but most mechs are fine to grind out 3 mechs.

You should try EVE, that thing is just work even if your pew pewing all day long

[M0rpHeu5]

Kushko, on 16 August 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

...you remove the horribly unoriginal, punishing and quite frankly idiotic system that is the "you need 3 variants to master the mech" system.

Yes a thousant times yes to that but i have to disapoint you.
When i made a similar thread a developer came in and said that this system is here to stay. He said that "this system is awesome becouse it helps people apreciate variants they woulden't though buying" (not that exactly but that's the point.)
What gives me some hope is that when i looked for that post o found out that he deleted it so, cross fingers.

Kushko, on 16 August 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Im actually ok with that. I dont mind hard work, as long as it doesnt feel pointless and punishing.

There is the answer to PGI, people see their game as "Hard Work" when a game should be fun to play

Edited by M0rpHeu5, 16 August 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[Kushko]

M0rpHeu5, on 16 August 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Yes a thousant times yes to that but i have to disapoint you.
When i made a similar thread a developer came in and said that this system is here to stay. He said that "this system is awesome becouse it helps people apreciate variants they woulden't though buying" (not that exactly but that's the point.)
What gives me some hope is that when i looked for that post o found out that he deleted it so, cross fingers.

I actually remember that. Well maybe not your post per say but i remember PGI going on how wonderful their 3 variant system is as it brings happiness and joy to the world and lets people find new and wonderful variants to play. Maybe i agree with that to some extent but the upside that actually brings is so much smaller than the downside of the system its almost not worth mentioning.

Cybermech, on 16 August 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

Don't get the main issue.
What your looking for is a non f2p game.
This is not and thus has to take on roles of pushing things on people.
I know some don't have all the time to grind and they get hurt the most out of this system.
There normally nothing wrong with grinding out 3 mechs, think raven is the worst though.
1 of the dragons too me extra time but most mechs are fine to grind out 3 mechs.

You should try EVE, that thing is just work even if your pew pewing all day long

Pushing things on people is not what F2P is about. The F2P titles that made you think that failed miserably and are most likely hurting because of it. F2P games should aspire to making you want to spend money on their game not making you have to spend it. And to get back on track i think the MWO F2P aspect is doing pretty good and the only really bad part of it is really this 3 variant system. Premium is fine, hero mechs are fine, early access to new mechs for MC only for a week or 2 was a fantastic idea. The cockpit items might be a bit on the overpriced side and as such for me personally not really worth buying. And last but not least the Phoenix pack was just brilliant, good for PGI and good for us...everybody wins and that is what F2P should strive for.

On a side note, i did play EvE for 6 years and i still remember getting my first Armageddon battleship back in the first months of EvE when battleships were a big deal. I farmed like crazy for weeks and when i finally got it it was like christmas morning. And if someone came and told me i need to farm 2 more of the same battleship just to have the chance to optimize the first one i would have told them to stick it where the sun dont shine. The issue with the 3 variant system is not the hard work or the amount of work required, its that the work comes from a pointless and arbitrary task which does in no way feel rewarding upon completion.

Edited by Kushko, 17 August 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[Balsover]

I would have no problem with 3 times the XP required to master a mech. As it is now, I second guess every new mech I want to buy because I know if i commit to one, i pretty much have to commit to 3. then I say screw it and don't buy anything. make me spend money on mech bays, not decide its not worth it/will take too long.

So far I'm finding War Thunder has a pretty good system, and I've already spent more money there then on MWO.