60 replies to this topic

[A banana in the tailpipe]

stjobe, on 19 August 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Funny, I don't see much of those matches since 12v12. It's usually a good (or several good) brawl going on, with very little sniping. Not that sniping doesn't occur, but it's not the trench warfare it was before the JJ shake and 12v12.

I agree that sniping is way down now that snipers know they could be ultra focused by 6+ players the moment they pop their heads up.

[Jzaltheral]

Kitane, on 19 August 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

If anything, bringing "Piranha ECM" to a battle should be an automatic -30k reduction of rewards.

That's a 50dkp minus!!!

[Lyoto Machida]

stjobe, on 19 August 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

If I can make 100k CB and 500 XP per match on average (which I seem to be able to currently), I will have earned 12m CB by the time I'm finished mastering one variant (roughly 120 matches), enough to purchase any 'mech in the game except the AS7-K.

The only issue is that a new player won't be able to go to Elite without having three variants to Basic, and won't be able to go to Master without three variants at Elite. They could of course just hoard the XP for as long as it takes to get the next variant of the chassis, but it's not as fun as unlocking Pilot Skills as you go along.

Yeah, but compare that to previously making 1 million in 4 wins (or maybe 8 matches)...no way you can consistently make 1 million every 4 wins nowadays.

[stjobe]

Lyoto Machida, on 19 August 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

Yeah, but compare that to previously making 1 million in 4 wins (or maybe 8 matches)...no way you can consistently make 1 million every 4 wins nowadays.

No, but do you need to? That was the point I was trying to make. I'm already leveling one 'mech, and in the course of doing so I make enough CB to buy any other 'mech in the game. What would I do with the extra 36 million?

[tigerija]

Man... CBills as whole is making this game more boring for me, and not fun.

I play this game like 1-2 hours a week.
Sometimes a lot more. But rarely.

I just wan't to play it. And CBills I see as limitation of fun. Lots of game components are restricted by CBills. And I have to play boring game to make it more fun.

That's how I see it at least.

CBills also have no effect on gameplay balance once you have it all. It just makes player who played less have less (including less variety => fun).

Dunno if all CBills components (I dont mean just equipment, but everything related to CBills) can be bought with MC.
MCs are ok I guess.

I prefer when I pay for product and I get full package. Rather than having to pay way more just to get less.
Anway, this is my way how I see it. So I don't care much on CBills. And I I dont think others should. I just play for gameplay. Not for gaining CBills.

Game should not try to make itself more fun by giving you more stuff for CBills if that stuff becomes boring very fast. Rather it should be fun enough to make you want to get more.

[krash27]

I am going to have to disagree with the OP and agree with a few of the others. I myself seem to be making a bit more per game, due to the target rich environment as another pilot has stated. Not sure if that means I play more or less than the OP, or if it means I am worse or better, member of a competitive team or a pug (myself). Realy makes me wonder how long until the same people will complain because there is nothing left to buy/master due to wanting to be able to purchase everything yesterday. Something given has no value.

Edited by krash27, 19 August 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

stjobe, on 19 August 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

If I can make 100k CB and 500 XP per match on average (which I seem to be able to currently), I will have earned 12m CB by the time I'm finished mastering one variant (roughly 120 matches), enough to purchase any 'mech in the game except the AS7-K.

The only issue is that a new player won't be able to go to Elite without having three variants to Basic, and won't be able to go to Master without three variants at Elite. They could of course just hoard the XP for as long as it takes to get the next variant of the chassis, but it's not as fun as unlocking Pilot Skills as you go along.

I consider myself an average player, and I'm seeing closer to 80k C-bills on average, more if I play assaults and less if I play lights, so the XP is faster than the C-bills can keep up. Also, you did not factor in the upgrade costs, 1.5mill for DHS, from 300k to 800k range for Endo, and then adding specific weapons and modules for that mech effectively doubles the cost of most mechs.

[Shadey99]

I've gone down just in PGI kept stats from 200k average per game to 111k... My best games now are ones I touch every enemy and get savior bonuses for almost every kill. Even so my highest post patch game is 170k with 4 kills 8 assists. More typically I'll do a 2/6 game or even a 0/8 game though and earn 100-120k due to few savior bonuses. A million cbills is more like 10 games, worse when the matchmaker hands me lemons since loses earn me 40-90k (and a 90k game is usually 4 kills 4 assists, yet a loss).

I have modules I'd love to buy, but I simply don't have enough cash. Way to much xp comparatively. Even a 2x cbill reward to go with the 2x xp rewards for first victory would go a long way to fixing the cbill:xp ratio.

I don't expect PGI to care though.. I don't think they understand how more xp will help them sell MC...

[stjobe]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 19 August 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Also, you did not factor in the upgrade costs, 1.5mill for DHS, from 300k to 800k range for Endo, and then adding specific weapons and modules for that mech effectively doubles the cost of most mechs.

Sure, if one only wanted to play the heaviest of the Assault 'mechs, that might be an issue. But the Awesome is "only" 7 million, and if you're crazy like me and want to pilot a light 'mech, the most expensive one you'll be able to find is the RVN-3L at 5.8 million - and it comes complete with XL engine and FF armour.

[DemonRaziel]

stjobe, on 19 August 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Sure, if one only wanted to play the heaviest of the Assault 'mechs, that might be an issue. But the Awesome is "only" 7 million, and if you're crazy like me and want to pilot a light 'mech, the most expensive one you'll be able to find is the RVN-3L at 5.8 million - and it comes complete with XL engine and FF armour.

But that stock engine is just XL210... might come in handy if you're planning on running Commies, too. Or maaaaybe Spiders.

Let's face it, pretty much for every Light you're gonna have to cough up 3-5 more mils. for a decent XL engine, on top of the base cost. And unless you're running a Trollmando, an extra 1.5 mil for DHSs is also a mandatory expense.

[MuonNeutrino]

stjobe, on 19 August 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Sure, if one only wanted to play the heaviest of the Assault 'mechs, that might be an issue. But the Awesome is "only" 7 million, and if you're crazy like me and want to pilot a light 'mech, the most expensive one you'll be able to find is the RVN-3L at 5.8 million - and it comes complete with XL engine and FF armour.

Um, those upgrade costs are pretty constant. DHS is always the same, endo doesn't vary by much more than half a million, XL engines are expensive no matter what, etc. You can tack on at *least* two million cbills to the cost of every single mech you buy, and another 3+ mil if you want an XL engine. Most mechs are going to end up costing 7-10 million by the time you're done + XL engines - it's quite the tax. You'll just barely break even in terms of 'getting enough money to buy the next mech once you master the previous one' if you average 100k cbills and 500 xp per match, but that assumes no expenditures on anything else.

Edited by MuonNeutrino, 19 August 2013 - 04:51 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

jakucha, on 18 August 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

You can earn about as much as before if you play well though. Of course, this leaves out most newer players. The c-bill earnings should probably be raised, but at the same time it should be understood that there's not very much to buy in this game with c-bills and they can end up stacking up in dust anyway. Basically three mechs and you're good in terms of mastering, unless you want to collect it all, but then you'd need MC anyway for slots.

See this is a problem. This is saying, "You can earn the same you did before if you play alot harder and have an exceptional game". I just got to ask, you don't see the issue with this?

Also even with an exceptional game with alot of kills and assists, I have yet to see rewards like I saw before.

Here is a prime example of the issue:

12 vs 12 rewards - QKD-4H:
3 kills
5 assists
6 component destruction
680 damage
5 spotting assists

Reward: 167,307 C-bills w/Premium

8 vs 8 - QKD-4H:
3 kills
5 assists
6 component destruction
434 damage
1 spotting assists

Reward: 241,317 C-bills.

Virtually identical matches yet I made 74,010 C-bills less.

I mean just how much harder do I have to work to make up 74,010 C-bills? Double my kills and/or assists? Is that reasonable?

Also where are you getting that there isn't much to buy in this game?

We have 93 release variants not including hero mechs. At the end of the Phoenix Package we should have be up to around 110 or more with them and the mech per month release.

The release variants along would cost someone over 400 million C-bills to buy and expect another 90 million for the unreleased but announced stuff. This does not include the cost to upgrade to DHS which almost everyone will do. This is another 140 million C-bills give or take. Then how about Endo, that is another 40 million. Lets add in XL engines to most of them, that is another what....300-400 million C-bills. How about weapon upgradess? I can't even guess the cost.

So as far as stuff we can buy with C-bills, why we could theoretical spend over ONE BILLION C-bills in this game as it stands right now based on only the released or announced content.

Or course there is more on the way. The Wolverine, Griffin, other mechs. How about the Clan mechs that sell for 10-30 million a pop.

ONE BILLION C-bills worth of stuff is not a minor amount of things to buy, not by a long shot and not when your averaging only 100k a match.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 19 August 2013 - 07:23 PM.

[Khobai]

Eh the whole thing makes no sense.

PGI claimed kill assists were worth too much in 12v12. So instead of just making kill assists worth 2/3rds as much, they just decreased c-bils flat out.

So either:

1) PGI is incompetent
2) PGI was looking for an excuse to lower cbills, and did so in an underhanded way, without being honest about it.

Personally im leaning more towards #1.

[Homeless Bill]

I think the "fix" for C-Bills happened last patch =P

Carry harder and be a god among mere peasants.

[Deathlike]

Khobai, on 19 August 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

Eh the whole thing makes no sense.

PGI claimed kill assists were worth too much in 12v12. So instead of just making kill assists worth 2/3rds as much, they just decreased c-bils flat out.

PGI is actually "correct" that assists are worth too much in 12v12. I've been collecting on that fact alone.

Quote

So either:

1) PGI is incompetent

That goes w/o saying.

Quote

2) PGI was looking for an excuse to lower cbills, and did so in an underhanded way, without being honest about it.

Personally im leaning more towards #1.

#2 is true to the extent that they didn't actually add any bonuses in compensation... which is less than honest. Even if it were honest, it was poorly thought out and ill-planned (it took them a while before they admitted to it). To be a respectable company, at least announce what you are doing in preparation... not AFTER the fact where everyone will whine about the results to the nth degree. Had an announcement had been previously made before this would go down, there would be whining, but at least you were informed in advance at would "prepare" for the change. PGI keeps saying they are "communicating" but they are not doing this well OR correctly.

[Sephlock]

It's already "fixed" as far as they are concerned, aside from the future re-implementation of R&R.

[Angel of Annihilation]

stjobe, on 19 August 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

If I can make 100k CB and 500 XP per match on average (which I seem to be able to currently), I will have earned 12m CB by the time I'm finished mastering one variant (roughly 120 matches), enough to purchase any 'mech in the game except the AS7-K.

The only issue is that a new player won't be able to go to Elite without having three variants to Basic, and won't be able to go to Master without three variants at Elite. They could of course just hoard the XP for as long as it takes to get the next variant of the chassis, but it's not as fun as unlocking Pilot Skills as you go along.

Ok but you nailed the issue with your last statement.

I bought an Atlas and outfitted it for 12 million C-bills. Within 20 matchs I have unlocked all basic skills. At 100k per match I have earned a whooping 2 million C-bills. However at that point I am stuck because to Master my new Atlas, I have to purchase and outfit 2 other Atlases at 12 million each so I can unlock basic on both of them. Whoops, I am at a hard stop right now becaue I am still 10 million short of buying my second Altas, let alone the 3rd one.

Sure I can horded XP for when I can finally get the C-bills for the other two variants but it isn't alot of fun being unable to progress your mech for weeks and weeks especially if your like me and run only about 20 matches a day.

This is why I am so pissed about the economy, because I think I represent more of an average player and as an average player, the economy change really makes us suffer.

Right now I am wanting to try out the new Kintaros that will be out later today, plus I have to buy my 3rd JagerMech, plus my second and third Altas, plus my second and third Stalker, plus pay for double heatsinks, Endo, maybe a few XL engines or Artemis, plus maybe a few new weapons if I don't have enough laying around. Oh and this is all before release which will have the Orion coming out.

This is roughly 75-80 million worth of stuff, not including the Orions. I have 5 million saved. I am so sick of feeling that nothing I can do will get me caught up and I am getting bored with the constant grinding required to try because I can't even remotely keep up with the content. I couldn't before with the old rewards which is why I bought premium. Now I am making as much with premium as I used to without it so I am back to the same old grind.

God I hope they adjust it back.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 20 August 2013 - 01:02 AM.

[Takony]

What boggles the mind is that PGI in its infinite wisdom totally overlooked the point that if people can buy more stuff with cbills the are likely to spend more $$ as well: mechbays paint camo statues xp conversion for gxp module and skill unlocks etcetera. They are shooting themselves in the feet and toting total bull excrement about it. Fascinating.

[Stoicblitzer]

Viktor Drake, on 18 August 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

This sucks because on the other hand I am really looking forward to the Overload Pack I bought.

Et tu, Victor? smfh

[Angel of Annihilation]

krash27, on 19 August 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

I am going to have to disagree with the OP and agree with a few of the others. I myself seem to be making a bit more per game, due to the target rich environment as another pilot has stated. Not sure if that means I play more or less than the OP, or if it means I am worse or better, member of a competitive team or a pug (myself). Realy makes me wonder how long until the same people will complain because there is nothing left to buy/master due to wanting to be able to purchase everything yesterday. Something given has no value.

I don't see how your making a bit more per match. I consider myself a decent player and in general I get as many if not more assists and kills in each match, and my damage is up but my rewards are pretty consistantly 40k less on a match per match basis. I have even been keeping a data base of sorts where I compare screen shots of rewards before the patch to those after the patch and have nearly identical matches netting significantly less rewards. I even had one where the preformance was exactly the same except for the fact I did more damage in the 12 vs 12 version and the difference in reward was over 74k C-bills lower under the new system.

This isn't even considering the per hour reductions due to matches taking longer.

Takony, on 20 August 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

What boggles the mind is that PGI in its infinite wisdom totally overlooked the point that if people can buy more stuff with cbills the are likely to spend more $$ as well: mechbays paint camo statues xp conversion for gxp module and skill unlocks etcetera. They are shooting themselves in the feet and toting total bull excrement about it. Fascinating.

Yeah I was thinking this myself. Each time I buy a new mech I find myself keeping at least one of them, sometimes 2-4 of them and each time I keep a new variant, I have to add a mechbay slot. Slow down my ability to get new mechs and you slow down the rate at which I am purchasing new mechbays.

Also I have been seriously considering the one time use camo patterns at 75 MC each. If I ever break down and start buying these, it just behooves PGI to also insure I have lots of mechs that I want to add camo to.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 20 August 2013 - 07:19 AM.