26 replies to this topic

[RF Greywolf]

So I just got the basics done with the 1C and the 1N but I am unsure of what my third dragon should be. I looked at the 5N and just can't seem to get a solid build working in smurfy. Anyone have any ideas on how to make it effective, or should I go for one of the hero dragons?

Just for background my 1C is a fast moving, hit and run brawler while my 1N is a long range sniper that can move in close end game.

As always any advice is welcome.

Greywolf

[TheCrazySteve]

I ran through the 5n with this build, it was serviceable. Dragon is about as light as you can go and still mount the 2x ppc 1x guass build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aa3bc97a9cee2af

Edited by TheCrazySteve, 11 August 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[Ryokens leap]

OP don't bother with the 5n, get a Flame as ur 3rd Dragon. Don't run anything less than a 330 xl ( 98 kph) unless you do an AC20 with 300 standard build. Speed saves Dragons and don't try for huge alphas ( mine all do 30-35). Hit and run is the Dragons game.

Edited by Ryokens leap, 12 August 2013 - 08:29 AM.

[Budor]

Flame is the best dragon, its a 1C with better hardpoint distribution.

That said i rebought the 5N today (for the 3rd time) and dumped ~12m on it. First game 980dmg.

360XL, ENDO, FF, DHS, max armor.

13x DHS
2x LL
3x MG 1t of ammo
1x SRM6 2t of ammo (might switch to ASRM4)
1x AMS 1t of ammo

Edited by Budor, 13 August 2013 - 09:23 AM.

[Modo44]

A solid Dragon build is one ERPPC, one Gauss Rifle, and whatever (depending on the speed you want). It fits on every MC Dragon variant, including the 5N.

[Ryokens leap]

OP the 5n is weak because its major weapons are in the arms which come off as easily as the YLW AC20 arm. Then what are you left with, an srm4, good luck. If you are torso twisting and raising your giant arms to block shots and protect an XL they will take major damage. The Flame, 1c & 1n all can mount heavy weapons in the torso leaving them more protected. Also don't listen to people who arm mount gauss and put their gauss ammo in that arm, this does as much good as protecting an XL with CASE, put gauss ammo in side torsos. Dragons are also fast and maneuverable enough to avoid LRMs, don't waste tons and crits on AMS. Also don't fall for the 3 ballistics hard points in th 5n right arm and fill it with MGs, an LBX 10 is better, gauss and ACs are best.

[Budor]

Ryokens leap, on 13 August 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

OP the 5n is weak because its major weapons are in the arms which come off as easily as the YLW AC20 arm. Then what are you left with, an srm4, good luck. If you are torso twisting and raising your giant arms to block shots and protect an XL they will take major damage. The Flame, 1c & 1n all can mount heavy weapons in the torso leaving them more protected. Also don't listen to people who arm mount gauss and put their gauss ammo in that arm, this does as much good as protecting an XL with CASE, put gauss ammo in side torsos. Dragons are also fast and maneuverable enough to avoid LRMs, don't waste tons and crits on AMS. Also don't fall for the 3 ballistics hard points in th 5n right arm and fill it with MGs, an LBX 10 is better, gauss and ACs are best.

What would be the advantage of having gauss ammo in the side torsos? How on earth is a lbx better than 3x mg if you pack heavy energy in the other arm?

[edit] did another game in the 5N, 804dmg

Edited by Budor, 13 August 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Ryokens leap]

Budor, on 13 August 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

What would be the advantage of having gauss ammo in the side torsos? How on earth is a lbx better than 3x mg if you pack heavy energy in the other arm?

[edit] did another game in the 5N, 804dmg

The ammo has a chance to absorb crit damage instead of the XL. If you are close enough to be spamming with MGs then you are asking to get crit ct shot, exposing your self to enemy fire while doing minimal damage is foolish. The LBX will at least give a heavy shot in a hit and run strike( the bread and butter of Dragon play). I try to do max damage as a move between cover, exposing myself as little as possible, AC5s, AC2s, MGs, ect don't hit hard enough unless multiples impact enemy and this requires extra exposure time under enemy fire. As far as your monster 5n games, well, who were you up against, who was on your team, were you all coordinated, how did the rest of the team do, did your team win, a high score can be pretty subjective. I've tried many 5n configs but it just isn't on par with the other Dragons. Just passing on what I learned, seen lots of new players in Dragon with no clue about tactics and load out. If that 5n works for you then great, I would never run that. Good hunting.

[Budor]

You cannot crit engines, you can only destroy them by depleting the internal hp. With the new system MG crits on gauss ammo in the shoulder would only pass some of the damage to the internals killing your engine faster, in your arm you might get lucky and the ammo gets hit while your rifle stays intact.

I would never advice someone to expose himself to shoot his machine guns, this loadout is built around the idea off a max speed dragon that finally utilizes the 3 ballistic slots, the only other option is a gauss which makes it basicalyy the same as every other dragon.

The op asked for a 3rd dragon, he has a 1C and a 1N theres only the 5N left. I allready said the Flame is the best dragon but it would make his 1C obsolete. Dumping MC on a Fang is only a good idea if you want to collect all the dragons.

Edited by Budor, 13 August 2013 - 08:18 PM.

[Ryokens leap]

Budor, on 13 August 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

You cannot crit engines, you can only destroy them by depleting the internal hp. With the new system MG crits on gauss ammo in the shoulder would only pass some of the damage to the internals killing your engine faster, in your arm you might get lucky and the ammo gets hit while your rifle stays intact.

I would never advice someone to expose himself to shoot his machine guns, this loadout is built around the idea off a max speed dragon that finally utilizes the 3 ballistic slots, the only other option is a gauss which makes it basicalyy the same as every other dragon.

The op asked for a 3rd dragon, he has a 1C and a 1N theres only the 5N left. I allready said the Flame is the best dragon but it would make his 1C obsolete. Dumping MC on a Fang is only a good idea if you want to collect all the dragons.

Hmmm, interesting ideas. Do you know if a side torso crit will calculate an empty crit and pass through or does it tag a component or engine automatically. I havnt seen anyone on the forums talk about gauss ammo in the arms saving the gun, only in side torsos. I still don't feel safe with main weapons in the arms, I've lost arms on the Flame, 1C & 1N and still continued to fight effectively. I also prefer the high weapon mount over low slung arms to minimize exposure. I've looked into the new crit mechanic and I don't feel it has enough advantages for me to alter my load outs.

[Budor]

Ryokens leap, on 14 August 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Hmmm, interesting ideas. Do you know if a side torso crit will calculate an empty crit and pass through or does it tag a component or engine automatically. I havnt seen anyone on the forums talk about gauss ammo in the arms saving the gun, only in side torsos. I still don't feel safe with main weapons in the arms, I've lost arms on the Flame, 1C & 1N and still continued to fight effectively. I also prefer the high weapon mount over low slung arms to minimize exposure. I've looked into the new crit mechanic and I don't feel it has enough advantages for me to alter my load outs.

I dont like arm mounted ballistics either (only on the wang but thatone behaves like a torso mounted weapon) the aim seems to be off with fast movement/shots. Lasers on the other hand perform extremely well on arms (Flame, 4SP,TDK, RS aso.).

The thing with machine guns, in relation to engine crits/dmg, is unclear though. Some people think that machine guns roll crits even if theres no components to crit in the section atm and thus destroy internal hp at a much faster rate than their base dps.

http://mwomercs.com/...-the-top-aug-5/

PGI is really not very good at relaying game mechanics to us, i hope stuff changes with ui 2.0.

[Modo44]

It's not "the aim", it's your aim. It takes low mouse sensitivity and a lot of practice, but you can put the damage in. Plus, you're in a Dragon, so you don't want to be seen -- or facing in one direction -- for more than a second anyway.

[RF Greywolf]

Thanks for the tips guys!!

ATM I'm leaning towards the Fang but still have some ideas for the 5N. I'll be playing around on smurfy with them to figure out a good build. My one and only issue with the 5N is the fact that all but one weapon is on the arms. My first mech was a Cent so I learned very quickly how to use those arms for shields in a brawl and I don't like the idea of being left with a single missile hardpoint.

I agree that they could have been a lot more detailed on the crit change.

Once again thanks for the help plus any additional help that is yet to come.

Greywolf

[Gevurah]

My two favorite dragons are my 5n and my Flame.

My 5N: 340XL
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1a30f08bc0f6e88

Highlights:
15 DHS to run cool... FOREVER. We have a lot of hot maps. This makes up for it.
2 ERLL - long range shooting, with the recent buff, is very viable.
1 srm6 for a little up close damage
and 3 machine guns for up close pew pew.
101 KPH top speed.

This thing relies on doing lots of running, firing at long to intermediate range, and dakka'ing the heck out of everything with massive non stop alphas up close. It's surprisingly potent and high damage/kill games in 12v12 are easy to pull off.

The flame is:
XL340, AC 10, 4 ML's, and either SRMs or in my current case an LRM10. I use it as a command mech so mostly I try to keep at range and stay alive until the end, when I can use my remaining AC10 ammo and 4 ML's to finish off wounded opponents. The AC10 on the shoulder is a huge boon and allows for some really easy long range pokes at enemies. Think of it as a low heat, slow velocity PPC.

[Tremendous Upside]

Ryokens leap, on 14 August 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Hmmm, interesting ideas. Do you know if a side torso crit will calculate an empty crit and pass through or does it tag a component or engine automatically. I havnt seen anyone on the forums talk about gauss ammo in the arms saving the gun, only in side torsos. I still don't feel safe with main weapons in the arms, I've lost arms on the Flame, 1C & 1N and still continued to fight effectively. I also prefer the high weapon mount over low slung arms to minimize exposure. I've looked into the new crit mechanic and I don't feel it has enough advantages for me to alter my load outs.

Every time I run my Victors and DRGs and hear "gauss ammo destroyed" and my rifle's still there? It makes me glad I packed it into the arm instead of elsewhere... It also keeps the explosion from passing along to the rest of the mech by absorbing the damage when the rifle does go.

My 2 cents? Buy a Flame and try the STD300/AC20 + 4ML build. It'll give u a whole new outlook on what dragons are capable of. That loadout absolutely rocks.

[Ryokens leap]

Okay I guess I'll have to dust off my 5N and play it with an MG build. Still not convinced about gauss ammo in the arm. So the ammo gets taken out and you have a huge gun with little or no ammo.

[Gevurah]

Ryokens leap, on 14 August 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Okay I guess I'll have to dust off my 5N and play it with an MG build. Still not convinced about gauss ammo in the arm. So the ammo gets taken out and you have a huge gun with little or no ammo.

Have it it. I highly recommend adjusting armor values so you have like 10 armor in the back though, because Dragons get CT'd *A EFFING LOT*. So make it like 65-70 front armor for the CT.

Also I'll give you guys the best advise I ever got as a new dragon pilot way back:

"Dragons whole point is speed. What's the point of running a dragon if you can do it better on a catapult?". Play to the strength of your mech. Basically anything below a 300 engine is wasting your time. Sure, you can run it, but your armor and mobility suffers.

Rather, play a 300, 325, 340. The 360 can be done but it's prohibitively expensive.

XL's are generally the best choice, though in rare cases (AC20 flame, for example) a STD is necessary. Remember... dragons are about speed. They're basically really heavy mediums, or really light heavies. Once you play like that, you'll start getting good #'s.

[Budor]

Ryokens leap, on 14 August 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Okay I guess I'll have to dust off my 5N and play it with an MG build. Still not convinced about gauss ammo in the arm. So the ammo gets taken out and you have a huge gun with little or no ammo.

Gauss has 3 hitpoints and 90% chance to blow up. If you lose the ammo first you should be thankfull because most of the time a lot of those 20 points of damage from the gauss explosion transfer directly to your side-torso.

The only Dragon i run a gauss in is the Flame. (dont have a Fang)

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

I don't know where you guys have been but 3x MG is OP on the 5N.
Take LL or PPC on your left arm and snipe/poke early game.
Late game go in with the MGs and start shredding exposed internals.

5N is easily the strongest variant right now.

[Ryokens leap]

Asian Tupac, on 15 August 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

I don't know where you guys have been but 3x MG is OP on the 5N.
Take LL or PPC on your left arm and snipe/poke early game.
Late game go in with the MGs and start shredding exposed internals.

5N is easily the strongest variant right now.

Do you have a build link for the 5n you would like to share. Thanks.