103 replies to this topic

[StandingCow]

Someone on the last #savemwo session had a fantastic idea of letting a player take whatever they wanted out, they could even build the mech, but it would call this a "simulation mode"... you would earn no XP or Cbills, but you could try something out before you purchased it.

The way things are now, players (Especially new players) can easily "waste" money on a mech they end up not enjoying at all, so why not let them try before they buy?

[KingCobra]

Like I have said many times MWO is just a shallow FPS of what MechWarrior games were most people on these forums have no idea what incarnations the MechWarrior/BT IP's have gone through since MW1-MW4 Mercenaries or the PC battletech games. PGI in my opinion did not know the MechWarrior/BT IP and because of there lack of knowledge and experience with MechWarrior took a known game model WOT and thought hey there making money why not make MechWarrior like this. Money they have made fans and long term players I think they have failed and the end result will be a dead game IP like Duke Nukum unless they change some of the game model back to a older MechWarrior style. As far as this thread and group I will not be a part of this I have had my own company and know as a company owner how hard it is to keep the company personnel paid knowing it was me they relied on to feed cloth and house there family's. Extortion of funds from a company to further your agenda is wrong your also hurting the good people that work hard to bring you a great game and enjoyment from said game.

Edited by KingCobra, 20 August 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Zephyr Charge]

KingCobra, on 20 August 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Like I have said many times MWO is just a shallow FPS of what MechWarrior games were most people on these forums have no idea what incarnations the MechWarrior/BT IP's have gone through since MW1-MW4 Mercenaries or the PC battletech games. PGI in my opinion did not know the MechWarrior/BT IP and because of there lack of knowledge and experience with MechWarrior took a known game model WOT and thought hey there making money why not make MechWarrior like this. Money they have made fans and long term players I think they have failed and the end result will be a dead game IP like Duke Nukum unless they change some of the game model back to a older MechWarrior style. As far as this thread and group I will not be a part of this I have had my own company and know as a company owner how hard it is to keep the company personnel paid knowing it was me they relied on to feed cloth and house there family's. Extortion of funds from a company to further your agenda is wrong your also hurting the good people that work hard to bring you a great game and enjoyment from said game.

Firstly; Im fairly certain the exact opposite of your idea of extortion is actually happening.
Most of the people in the group are saying that things like boycotts and not paying them is a bad idea.
The natural progression of people choosing not to pay them on te other hand is just that. a natural progression. Unless you think people should be paying them money to play a free to play game whether or not they like the current iteration of said game?
Secondly; what gives? Your picture wasnt a game

[KingCobra]

Zephyr Charge, on 20 August 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

Firstly; Im fairly certain the exact opposite of your idea of extortion is actually happening.
Most of the people in the group are saying that things like boycotts and not paying them is a bad idea.
The natural progression of people choosing not to pay them on te other hand is just that. a natural progression. Unless you think people should be paying them money to play a free to play game whether or not they like the current iteration of said game?
Secondly; what gives? Your picture wasnt a game

I will answer you out of courtesy Zepher first of all this group through this thread have asked multiple times and possibly influenced players and groups to get refunds to further this groups agenda to me personally this is extortion of this company's funds to sustain itself and its employees. As to the picture well it just shows my point of most MWO players and fans don't know the history of TT=Tabletop-BT=BattleTech=or MechWarrior=Macross=ETC at one time they(company's) all worked together for the betterment of the IP's and fans/players. I could go into a 20 page history tutorials about how everything interacted from PC games to cartoon series and fan memorabilia.

[Lazy Eye]

Zephyr Charge, on 20 August 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

Firstly; Im fairly certain the exact opposite of your idea of extortion is actually happening.
Most of the people in the group are saying that things like boycotts and not paying them is a bad idea.
The natural progression of people choosing not to pay them on te other hand is just that. a natural progression. Unless you think people should be paying them money to play a free to play game whether or not they like the current iteration of said game?
Secondly; what gives? Your picture wasnt a game

Yeah. Certainly, KingCobra, a lot of people HAVE talked about getting refunds and boycotts, but you have to remember, that there are a LOT of people who've been playing this game for over a year and seen very little progress on the core issues of communication and game balance and are extremely frustrated, because they, like you, know just how good MWO could be. And this was occurring in the context of how to get PGI/IGPs attention.


I understand why you say you would prefer not to get involved, but surely, your experience is exactly why you should get involved? You have that perspective that many of us lack (I've never owned my own business). You know what it's like to run a business... how important it is to keep your customers happy... how much easier and cheaper it is to keep existing customers than to recruit new ones?


No doubt, if ANY of your customers started asking for refunds - let alone a hundred at a time - you'd want to know why? You'd want to talk to your customers and say "Where did we screw-up? What can we do to get you to come back to us?"


Sure, you can't please everybody, but it doesn't hurt to try, does it? For the most part, this is the point #saveMWO is at: we just want PGI/IGP to act like they care about their customers.

To which I will add what my dad always says to me: "You may be from Yorkshire, but you can at least pretend to be civilised."

[Lazy Eye]

KingCobra, on 20 August 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

I will answer you out of courtesy Zepher first of all this group through this thread have asked multiple times and possibly influenced players and groups to get refunds to further this groups agenda to me personally this is extortion of this company's funds...

Whoa! It's MY money, I am the customer.

If I'm not getting the service I expect, I have a moral, if not legal, right to ask for MY money back.

I'm not asking for anyone else's money. I'm not asking for "compensation" and I'm pretty sure no one else has.

What keeps getting lost in this, is that, fundamentally, this is a commercial, consumer transaction. I don't owe PGI anything and PGI doesn't owe me anything. BUT if PGI want to me to put MY money into them through this game, they have to give me something of value in return. I am ("we" are) saying that, right now, PGI is failing to demonstrate that value relative to the competition and my ("our") expectations.

Again, I understand your position and perspective and why it would make you feel uneasy, but please, do be careful with heavily loaded words like "extortion" (which is a criminal offence - I believe a Federal offence in the US - in almost all legal systems).

I want MWO to succeed, but PGI isn't a charity and they should not be expecting me or anyone else to part with their cash "just" because we're fans of the franchise.

(Edited to fix whitespace).

Edited by Lazy Eye, 20 August 2013 - 08:18 AM.

[Zephyr Charge]

KingCobra, on 20 August 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

I will answer you out of courtesy Zepher first of all this group through this thread have asked multiple times and possibly influenced players and groups to get refunds to further this groups agenda to me personally this is extortion of this company's funds to sustain itself and its employees. As to the picture well it just shows my point of most MWO players and fans don't know the history of TT=Tabletop-BT=BattleTech=or MechWarrior=Macross=ETC at one time they(company's) all worked together for the betterment of the IP's and fans/players. I could go into a 20 page history tutorials about how everything interacted from PC games to cartoon series and fan memorabilia.

Im sorry but if someone gets a refund, THEY likely think they deserve said refund. I significantly doubt someone's gonna get a refund on an item they really want JUST because the #savemwo ppl commanded it.

#independant thought

[Nekki Basara]

Zephyr Charge, on 20 August 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

Secondly; what gives? Your picture wasnt a game

Man you don't even want to know. That comic was awful. Truly awful.

[BFett]

Hello everyone, I just wanted to pop in here and let you all know of this thread because I think it might relate to this conversation.

[Gwaihir]

That's a lot of words to read, but they're pretty good words, and I agree with them.

[DeathofSelf]

I wish you guys luck, but after reading the patch notes today, I'm out. They are quite obviously going to do whatever they want and what ever they feel will get them the most money in the shortest amount of time.

Edited by DeathofSelf, 20 August 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[Gwaihir]

Third person view being on by default, with no minimap, and NO INGAME INDICATION THAT IT CAN BE CHANGED without first going in to controls is

~AMAAAZZZINNGGGG~

[Team Leader]

BFett, on 20 August 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

Hello everyone, I just wanted to pop in here and let you all know of this thread because I think it might relate to this conversation.

Annnnd it got moved to feedback archive with no mod explanation. Watch yourselves, thread posters. They're not giving much leeway to dissidence these past couple weeks.

[Gwaihir]

Damn. Not even ktown. It's like they don't even know how to manage interactions with a community to avoid stirring things up even worse than they already are.

Edited by Gwaihir, 20 August 2013 - 10:05 AM.

[Nekki Basara]

Gwaihir, on 20 August 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Third person view being on by default, with no minimap, and NO INGAME INDICATION THAT IT CAN BE CHANGED without first going in to controls is

~AMAAAZZZINNGGGG~

[sokitumi]

What are you guys hoping to achieve? The game is to be released in 28 days. They're prob working 16 hour days over there with the hail-mary method of development cramming wonderful things into the game at the last minute. We needed #savemwo a year ago, right around the time MWO went open beta. But sadly, there was still a majority of baseless optimists at that time.

Look at these balances for today for ex.: LBX spread near halved, MG crits near halved, UAC jam near halved, SSRM dmg near doubled. How can they even get metrics with numbers like this with the amount of time left to release...

You want people to be mature and adult about this in an effort to start a dialogue with mgmt over there, and while that's an honorable pursuit, let me assure you - no matter how soft your words are or how totally right or obvious your criticism is, it wont reach open ears. Reference the #savethisthread derailing of the last thread.

[BFett]

I'm at my wits end... I will not be playing any more games until next patch. I think an emergency #savemwo meeting is in order.

If something isn't done quickly this could get very toxic. I'm going to send the linked message to Bryan, Russ, and Paul. The time for action is now!

[ObsidianSpectre]

Lazy Eye, on 20 August 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

Perception is important, I agree, which is why I believe the name is appropriate at this point in time.

#saveMWO is an expression of the depth of the concern "we" currently have with respect to the future of the game.

...

I hope, very much, that we will change to #improveMWO as quickly as possible, but right now, we're still in #saveMWO territory.

A point is often brought up in these meetings that we don't want to be confrontational with the developers. The #saveMWO tag is a bit confrontational, since it implies that the game needs to be saved from them. #helpMWO or #improveMWO would be better suited to this groups goals, as it's clearer that we'd rather this be a collaborative effort with the developers instead of a confrontational one.

You mention that the current name better expresses the depth of the concerns, and this is true, but you have to ask - is it more important that people know how you feel, or that you accomplish your goals?

[Lazy Eye]

ObsidianSpectre, on 20 August 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

A point is often brought up in these meetings that we don't want to be confrontational with the developers. The #saveMWO tag is a bit confrontational, since it implies that the game needs to be saved from them. #helpMWO or #improveMWO would be better suited to this groups goals, as it's clearer that we'd rather this be a collaborative effort with the developers instead of a confrontational one.

You mention that the current name better expresses the depth of the concerns, and this is true, but you have to ask - is it more important that people know how you feel, or that you accomplish your goals?

This is an excellent point, well made; I cannot deny your logic.

I think, however, it is moot, as changing the name at this point would probably not make any difference - in a sense, the "damage" is already done

And given the last patch, I can VERY well imagine it becoming #ohwellwetriedMWO; the patch feedback thread is page after page of confusion, anger and disappointment with barely a "it's still beta" or die-hard PGI-supporter to be seen...

[Chronojam]

While we appreciate everybody's enthusiasm, please try to keep posts constructive and free of worthless crap that simply takes up space.