21 replies to this topic

[ColdHeat]

Now i'm no total newbie anymore but since the learning curve in MWO is extremely high i still feel like my thread belongs here.

I recently bought my first hero mech: the YLW. To this day i was a raven only pilot and while the start with the stock engine YLW was hard i meanwhile finally do more average damage per game as with my raven (300-600). Still my CBill income strangely hasn't changed at all.

Now i didn't bought my YLW for CBills farming only yet to me that appears to be one of the most reasonable ideas to get a hero mech. I can see that i roughly get 30.000 cbills extra every game thanks to the hero status still.. i do pretty much around the same or more cbills with an ordinary raven, while i do less damage in it. Where's the logic in that?

Am i doing something wrong or where's the sense in buying a hero mech then?

[ICUBurn]

since they nerfed teh cbills prem time and hero mech bonuses are pointless.

[Wintersdark]

ICUBurn, on 19 August 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

since they nerfed teh cbills prem time and hero mech bonuses are pointless.

This is quite an exaggeration, or you have some very serious issues with your math. You still earn 30% more cbills with a hero mech. Even though the base earnings have been lowered (by roughly 20-30%) a 30% bonus is still a 30% bonus. It's not like you can elect to go back to the old c-bill earnings.

So, make 100k in a non-hero, you could have made 130k if you were in a hero mech.

Sure, the 30% is fewer c-bills than it used to be, but that certainly doesn't make it pointless.

Hell, the match end screen helpfully(*grumbles*) tells you how many more c-bills you would have earned if you had premium time, so you can see exactly what that is. For me, that's roughly 50k per match average overall.

[Selfish]

You should keep in mind that you're probably new to the mech, and it requires a different playstyle than a raven. How are you building the mech?

[Nauht]

Remember that this game is 99% reward based - so doing not only doing damage but assists, spotting, component destruction.

In your Raven, which I bet you're very comfortable in now you performed better, whether it's more spotting bonus or more assist bonus from quick firing weapons and speed, enabling you to get a hit on any target you want.

With a slower and new mech you're probably not getting assists on as many mechs or less spotting etc... all of those little things you really don't pay attention to really do add up at the end tally.

Play to the YLW's strength - that big ac20 capable cent. When you get better in it you realise you might not get as many assists or spot bonus but you're getting more component destruction and kill shots.

I found, after playing all mechs, that PGI did a good balance for what each class of mech does - you've just got to adjust your playstyle accordingly. When I first started playing a light I was hating it cos the rewards were lower only cos I was playing like it was a heavy. Trying to get kills, components. Then I played a light how its meant to be played, harass, scout, spot and found that the cbills were on par. It's just playing differently.

[Redshift2k5]

Unfortunately if you are not performing well (damage, kills, assists, etc) as you did in your raven, your earnings will be lower overall.
Keep practicing! Every win, kill, assist earns you more than your non-hero mechs

[Krazy Kat]

With endo and possibly ferro you could drop a bigger engine in that wang. Something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b29f501934e4b24

If you feel lucky you could even drop an XL engine in for more speed:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b334ba8bbe71f8c

These are just some basic ideas.But almost all good YLW pilots put a biger engine in for more speed. It's really fun running that fast with an AC/20.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Yeah practice with that ac20 and treat it like your first born, protect it keep it safe and let it reach out and communicate (violently) with others. Learning how to time its shots when on the move, and when aiming at agile enemies is what differentiates a okay pilot and a good pilot.

Luck helps too, nothing is more fun then poping off a shot at a barely visable cicada as hes running between rocks and SPLAT down like a champ.

[Koniving]

Addressing a sour comment.

Spoiler

ICUBurn, on 19 August 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

since they nerfed teh cbills prem time and hero mech bonuses are pointless.

A typical result without bonuses. With premium that'd be over 200,000 cbills.


Falls between 136,000 as a low (for a modest game) to around 170,000 for me without the fancy mechs. You don't get as much for stealing kills or for doing insane amounts of damage. You have to actually work for your money by providing aid to your teammates, spotting for targets, using your TAG / NARC, and finding ways to destroy your enemies without destroying the torso for the huge bucks. For example: Headshots and leg-kills get the entire group a lot more money than your typical torso kills.

Addressing the main thing.. The Yen Lo Wang will take some getting used to. You're now twice as tall, and as wide from the front as your Raven was long from the side. This is going to require some very different tactics.

These may help a bit.

Spoiler

This is a general Centurion help that could help you; the style it suggests is not that different from what someone would do with a light.


This is a video I made not long after getting my first Wang. I changed the loadout to carry a Gauss rifle and a machine gun backup.

Given that your right arm carries your main weapon, you must protect that weapon by utilizing your left side as your damage-soaking side. Make use of that arm by throwing it in people's way.

I currently run an AC/2 + AC/5 combination. This is my personal Wang.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5a727094480f1bc

Since that version isn't new player friendly, I've devised one that's more cost effective.
This is fairly safe version to strive for.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e6f85bf2047ddb6

And finally this is for someone on a strict budget. Features twin AC/2s. Treat it as a long range mech.
With this rig, do not get close for any reason. Note the front to rear armor ratio.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=45&l=3690728217845842893fbe17162a9ab051601b90 <-Edit. Armor allocation didn't take. Fixed.

This is another budget rig. Features Gauss Rifle. Much more damage per shot, but nowhere near as forgiving if you miss as the build above. MPLs make up for being slow. Left side is made for carrying in a brawl. Right side is armored with the belief that you will snipe until the right shoulder or arm is gone or until your ammo is gone. Either way after that point that arm is sacrificial. A case protects you from the crippling explosion that'd occur if your Gauss Rifle detonated on you.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4121716411a7515

Edit: One of the budget rigs did not reflect the armor allocation specific for the design.

Edited by Koniving, 20 August 2013 - 08:18 AM.

[vettie]

The YLW is one of my most fav mechs, Period.

One thing to think about when using it, and I pretty much use it as standard build, AC20, 2 Med Lasers, Std Eng. Endo Steel.
is that it is a hit a run bruiser in this config.

Altho fast, it is not as fast as many others. You can not really play the mech like a light. Works best with other mediums or following some of the bigger mechs and cleaning up their victims. Learn to use that torso twist speed and protect that gun arm until it is gone or out of ammo. Then Zombie you way around the enemies and take em out.

Once you get speed tweak, you will notice a significant difference in the way the mech responds. Take time to learn the mech and how it responds and what it does best. It will grow on you.

[New Day]

Wintersdark, on 19 August 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

This is quite an exaggeration, or you have some very serious issues with your math. You still earn 30% more cbills with a hero mech. Even though the base earnings have been lowered (by roughly 20-30%) a 30% bonus is still a 30% bonus. It's not like you can elect to go back to the old c-bill earnings.

So, make 100k in a non-hero, you could have made 130k if you were in a hero mech.

Sure, the 30% is fewer c-bills than it used to be, but that certainly doesn't make it pointless.

Hell, the match end screen helpfully(*grumbles*) tells you how many more c-bills you would have earned if you had premium time, so you can see exactly what that is. For me, that's roughly 50k per match average overall.

If you get 30% percent more in a hero, and they lower the rewards by 30% you won't even break the previous non hero rewards.

[ColdHeat]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm fairly happy with my YLW now. I got an 295XL engine in it (yeah i know, it decreases the survivability but the standart engine speed just didn't fit my playstyle) + DHS + 35 Shots of AC20 Ammo in it and it seem to work.

I was simply wondering because in average Raven matches i roughly make around 150k, while at the time i had wrote this i just had a match with my YLW with the highest damage score i ever had in any match and was thinking "so now let's see how much cbills that's worth. It must be enormeous" ... and it was even less reward then what i get for my average game raven score. Around 145k only. I guess you'll see my disappointment of high hopes and little outcome in the end.

Yet you are possibly correct. Maybe less assists in it, less spotting, component destruction and so on.

Edited by ColdHeat, 19 August 2013 - 11:55 PM.

[Cole Allard]

Euhm...just inserting pics wont work if you dont uplad em first.

And the Wang is a great mech. You might wanna get 2 more cents to master the skills of the Wang, you wont regret it, at Elite it doubles all your skills, with an XL Engine, the Wang becomes an agile beast. Dont forget to use your left arm as your shield. Some people just dont get it and loose their maingun in the first two minutes of the match and become 50 tons with 2 med lasers...you dont wanna do that to your team.

[Johnny Marek Summers]

While salvage seems to be a major part of the C-Bill nerf, I think it has to do with a lot of kills due to coring the opponent. While destroying the CT is a good way to kill someone it makes the salvage prospects... bleak. Try double legging your opponents or cockpit kills if you're really, really almost god-like prescient accurate with your weapons (tiny hit box and wonky hit registration in the netcode), as these provide the best salvage bonus.

Please note: the only way you get the salvage bonus is if you WIN. So focus on winning first, and then worry about how you are killing your enemy.

Salvage is one aspect of the C-Bill earnings. Kills, kill assists, and savior kills are also good ways to earn more.

Kill means being the final shot that takes down a mech.

Kill assist is earned if you do damage (possibly significant damage?) to a mech which is later killed.

Savior kill is earned if you do damage to a mech who hit a friendly who's internals are showing once the opponent is killed.

Should you leave a match before the actual win/loss you will get everything you have earned up to the point you left. Which means you can lose out on kill assists and savior kills if the mechs you hit are not killed before you leave. I have heard you will get the win or loss depending on the outcome of the match because whatever you did contributed to the outcome, but I'm not absolutely certain of this.

Edited by Johnny Marek Summers, 20 August 2013 - 01:22 AM.

[Kushko]

Koniving, on 19 August 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

Addressing ignorance.

I respect you as a person and all the good you do on the new player forums, but i have to point out that ignorance goes both ways. Implying the new economy is fine is just as ignorant as all the doomsayers calling it the end of the world.

As for the OP, like others have already mentioned, on a new mech you will usually earn less until you get used to it and your performance goes back to where it was on a mech you were already comfortable with. Also we are expecting some buffs to medium mech performance in todays patch and while noone knows what the buffs will be it should have a positive impact on the YLW.

[Ewigan]

I skipped most of the thread, cause i read Krazy Kats Post and instantly felt the need to rant ^^

I will skip the Rant, but just to let you know COldHeat:

Run an AK20, 2 Med lasers, 3-4 Tons of Ammo and a STD Engine on the Wang.

You WILL want to go Zombie (meaning you only have your Legs, CT and head left) with this mech, so XLs are pointless.
AND NEVER EVER put Ammo in your torso, unless you love to blow up

THis Build works really well:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e2193d0b638b6c7

YOu COULD try to put in an AMS, i didn't play my Wang that much since 12 vs 12...

[ColdHeat]

I see. I thought about maybe getting a C.A.S.E. for my 5 ammo in the left torso but maybe that's also only a waste of 0.5 tons. Unfortunately it's still 1 ammo more than i could pack into the legs. Surprisingly the XL engine works better then expected i had a black knight moment yesterday where both arms were off, then my left leg and i finally got out of the game when the right one was blown off as well. Also the speed of the 295 really is awesome. It gives me somewhat back that scout hit & run feeling i liked about the raven yet i'll definitely will give your standart engine build a try.

[Bront]

ColdHeat, on 20 August 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

I see. I thought about maybe getting a C.A.S.E. for my 5 ammo in the left torso but maybe that's also only a waste of 0.5 tons. Unfortunately it's still 1 ammo more than i could pack into the legs. Surprisingly the XL engine works better then expected i had a black knight moment yesterday where both arms were off, then my left leg and i finally got out of the game when the right one was blown off as well. Also the speed of the 295 really is awesome. It gives me somewhat back that scout hit & run feeling i liked about the raven yet i'll definitely will give your standart engine build a try.

CASE won't help if it's in the torso with an XL engine. 99% of the time, case is useless.

[Angel of Annihilation]

It honestly could be timing. They just recently added 12 vs 12 and with adding 12 vs 12 came about a 30% reduction in earnnigs. Therefore because you played your Raven mostly under the 8 vs 8 reward system and now you just go the Wang on the new system, the results would be roughly the same which makes it appear like you didn't really gain anything with your purchase.

I know for a fact that on a per hour basis, Premium new is like non-premium was back then and where I would easily break 200k in probably 40% of my matches, now I feel a good match is one where I make 150k.

The whole economy thing is pretty much total BS now. PGI really screwed us.

[Koniving]

Kushko, on 20 August 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

I respect you as a person and all the good you do on the new player forums, but i have to point out that ignorance goes both ways. Implying the new economy is fine is just as ignorant as all the doomsayers calling it the end of the world.

As for the OP, like others have already mentioned, on a new mech you will usually earn less until you get used to it and your performance goes back to where it was on a mech you were already comfortable with. Also we are expecting some buffs to medium mech performance in todays patch and while noone knows what the buffs will be it should have a positive impact on the YLW.

Oh it's a bit far from fine. But... The new system rewards teamwork more and solo play less. If you help your team you actually won't even notice a difference in income. Since we at Zhizhu usually help our team, we simply haven't. In fact some of us have noticed superior returns.

In example: Some bonuses which were one time pay buffs actually reward you over and over again at certain intervals. For instance a spot bonus now rewards me from the same LRM guy, against an identical target, every 3 to 5 seconds. Spot assist + tag/narc. Spot assist + tag/narc. I keep getting paid for helping my team. That's good, it promotes teamwork and pays a scout for being a scout.

That isn't to say it's fine all around: one of our players, who plays quite selfishly, has noticed a 50,000 (Edit: missing word: "average") decrease in his earnings. He's the sort that steals all of our kills that we worked so hard on, who stat pads himself like crazy making every match harder on us, and has a 5.something kdr while the rest of us are around 0.5 to 2.0 kdrs.

To me, that's an acceptable change. The current cbill earnings from what we've seen punishes the lack of teamwork exhibited by selfish players, and is rewarding players that actively go out of their way to help teammates. Add to that we are supposed to be getting more rewards for lights and mediums who perform their roles (spotting, combat support, savior kills, defensive kills, following orders given by team commanders, etc. are all supposed to reward you for teamwork).

Genuinely give helping your team a try. I made 210,000 cbills last night without premium (I'm refusing to buy it until we get our heat capacity reduced for the betterment of the game and to stop this alpha warrior b.s.) and I was using a Blackjack with a tag and 7 small pulse lasers.

Edit: Word was missing.
Edit 2: Defined "Superior returns."

There are other things you can do to improve your income as well. Kill by headshot or legging. If the engine is intact everyone makes more on the salvage. The fewer parts you strip, the higher the salvage income. As a medium, hang around an assault and shoot what they shoot. You'll notice some interesting cash bonuses. All in all, don't be so selfish and help those around you. My earnings have been improving and of the three people I played with last night, 2 of them also noticed increased earnings and 1 of them...was miserable with his pay because he was selfish the whole way through.

Edited by Koniving, 20 August 2013 - 07:22 AM.