Giving Up On Lrms
#1
Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:43 AM
Played in several matches last night, trying to work my Atlases for a change. The options for an Atlas almost all involve some form of either LRM or SRM loadout.
And then I had an epiphany. I realized: PGI never wants anyone to use LRMs. Ever.
Without exception, the teams I faced were 50% or higher ECM variant mechs. Atlas-D-DDCs, Commando with ECM, Spider with ECM, Raven with ECM, Cicada with ECM. The "Assault" groups were always a set of mechs huddled around an Atlas-D-DDC. The scout groups were ECM'ed to high heaven.
It made a mockery of LRMs. Why even bother carrying them? Sure, I could load on a TAG. But by the time my TAG hits something, and I hold it for long enough to get lock, the enemy has already poptarted or sniped and gone back behind cover. Even when a friendly had both TAG and their own ECM, hoping for a counter+lock to hold for LRM flight times was ridiculous.
Snipe an enemy with PPC, then hit them while their ECM is down? Sure. Except they're still covered by friendly ECMs, and 4 seconds is not long enough for the lock to hold through flight times.
ECM's overpowered nature is what is causing the snipe meta in the game, more than anything else. The ability to carry a riding "off button" for an entire class of weapons is just stupid.
Make it double the lock-on times, or something. But hiding everyone from sensors so thoroughly, functioning as an off-button to an entire weapon class until they're too close to be fired anyways, is making the game terrible.
#2
Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:49 AM
#3
Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:50 AM
#4
Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:55 AM
#5
Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:55 AM
#6
Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:58 AM
I used to avoid LRMs as a PUG due to the lack of reliable fire support per drop, but now with the 12 V 12 drops, I think they are pretty descent (even as a lone PUG). Seems like there is always a mech in the open to rain death on.
Heck, with this 12 v 12 drop system, I think LRMs are finnaly more useful.
#7
Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:06 AM
No other weapon in the game has a soft counter (like the ams) to say nothing of a hard counter (ECM) it's actually stupid that one of 3 weapon systems has so many defenses and the others get none.
In addition, LRM users have to expose themselves for great lengths of time OR have a good team comp. In addition, they're the only weapon where taking cover AFTER it's fired is an excellent defensive tactic.
#8
Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:16 AM
And Atlas brawlers only kill the stupid. I know this is still a target rich enviroment, but trying to brawl in one of the slowest mechs in the game is recipe for disaster.
Edited by Screech, 15 August 2013 - 08:37 AM.
#9
Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:21 AM
#10
Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:26 AM
Also, as has been said before, don't put LRM into an Atlas, except maybe as backup weapons.
Edited by LeShadow, 15 August 2013 - 08:27 AM.
#11
Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:29 AM
What will help is having a spotter. Lights are good at this by getting behind the enemy and maintaining LOS, or running around the enemies and having them targeted. Pick and choose targets you know you're more likely to hit. Don't waste missiles on targets that blinks in and out due to ECM coverage. You can also support your brawlers with LRMs. Your missiles will pound their targets and making their cockpit shake so it's harder for them to aim. It also distract them by making them seek cover instead of trying to fight your brawler.
I am in the camp where I think LRMs are OK right now. It's not overly powerful, although sometimes you'll get 3 or 4 LRM boats on one side with a good Spider spotter and you're toast.
#12
Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:54 AM
we must be playing different games
If you can't get decent scores with LRMs right now
I'm blaming the pilot not the weapon
#13
Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:00 AM
You are correct. The players who never intend to use LRMs say LRMs are fine now, and PGI just doesn't realize just how Legion this group of players is. There is just this large group of MechWarrior players who think LRMs are skill-less, dirty, underhanded weapons made for newbs that no honorable player would ever touch. You need to take their opinon and give it the proper weight as a biased view.
Only players that have no favorite weapon type should be taken seriously on LRM balancing. LRMs are just too unliked. However, good LRMs make MechWarrior great gaming, even if they are hated by the legion.
I would say MWO's LRMs would be balanced now if they were fire-and-forget. Meaning you aim, lock-on, launch LRMs, done. This frees the player to use a diverse load-out instead of an LRM boat. Your LRMs do some damage and your other weapons, which fire-and-forget frees you to use, does some.
If MWO is going to continue to make LRMs the hardest weapon to use by requiring the player to maintain a missile lock continuously, they should do very high damage. As good as any direct-fire weapon. Sure make that balanced with Artemis, BAP, TAG, NARC, etc., but the difficulty of using the LRM has to be matched with the damage done. Even if players hate it, it's the only fair thing to do.
#14
Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:02 AM
I would say I have many hundreds of games experience with brawling, mid range and sniping, and perhaps 10-20 with LRMs and I can say that it's not that hard. It takes situational awareness, positioning, communication, and most importantly that balance between line-of-sight and not getting alpha'd in the face.
#15
Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:03 AM
Also looking for good firing lines is a fun little mini game for me lol.
Edited by Kibble, 15 August 2013 - 09:04 AM.
#16
Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:03 AM
Just one of the many things they haven't translated well from a tabletop game into the current game.
#17
Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:03 AM
LordBraxton, on 15 August 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:
we must be playing different games
If you can't get decent scores with LRMs right now
I'm blaming the pilot not the weapon
LRM launch tubes are bugged right now. If your mech has the BUG, your LRM20 is now an LRM30, so 2xBUGGED LRM20=LRM60, in which case, LRMs are going at 150% of normal damage and likely seem okay. I think PGI already knows about the LRM tube bug. All LRM launchers are similarly bugged at 150% depending on if your mech has the Bug.
Good thing this is just a Beta test.
Edited by Lightfoot, 15 August 2013 - 09:07 AM.
#19
Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:12 AM
I used to have fun using LRM5's or an LRM10 on Light Mechs, but no more, fun is not allowed. LRMs and ECM were way better in previous Mech Warrior games and thems is just the facts.
Edited by General Taskeen, 15 August 2013 - 09:13 AM.
#20
Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:12 AM
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