151 replies to this topic

[Volume]

If this isn't enough, I don't know what is.

PGI, please reconsider.

[Monky]

DrDXZ, on 22 August 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

there is a nice little feature they didnt' tell anybody about (bad at communication? or hiding it in case of exploit)

Where if you're cursor/mech is in front of a nonmech object, 0-20m away, you're 3PV drone zooms in on the mech. This is put in place, so that if you got your face behind agiant rock 0-20m away, you can't see over it.

In the case of the notorious spider "i see everythign" picture, the spider has his cursor at 7m. Yet the 3PV camera does not zoom in like its supposed to. Under intended conditions the zoom is to such a degree, that at the greatest effect, you will only see the shoulders of the spider (see screenshot later in post).

I'm willing to say a good number of these ridiculously incriminating screenshots are taken with the bug in effect. (any image, where cursor is 0-10m but you can still see legs on the spider is where bug is occuring) Bug is brought on by pointing cursor downward, and as such, you will find that in these images from the OP, the cursor is always pointed downward;

Spoiler

This is what is supposed to happen. Cursor says 5m, legs do not show. The camera zooms in when your cursor is <20m, cannot peek over it.:


BUG: Cursor reads 6m legs are showing. this bug occurs when I pointed my cursor down. I am in the same position as in image above.


While even with the 0-20m zoom working properly, there is still quite a tactical advantage, though the 0-20m zoom gets rid of a good amount of it.

Even though PGI failed to communicate (big suprise) that they put that thought into the 3PV system. Furthermore they did not proplerly implement it as we can all see there are many bugs. In this instance, its almost always possible to bypass the 0-20m zoom by looking down.

And of course, PGI tells people there is a bug to a feature nobody knows exists, as a result they sound like complete idiots.

Ok, I can see those drums being a ray trace fail as well, and upon review, two of the spots near Kappa as well where I am snug against the building, however Paul was specifically describing it as 'the camera, pitched all the way down, will pop up and out dramatically effectively acting as if it is not up against an object'. This is not the case in any of the screenshots I posted, some are aimed a little down or a little up or level, and did not rely on any 'camera popping', just regular looking around. Either way if some/any/all of them are 'bugs' they remain documented here.

[MustrumRidcully]

Tragos, on 21 August 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Forced camera after choosing wouldn't change anything, since 3rd person is perfectly viable for most scouts. Press B if you need a map.

Just enable the PROMISED 1pv queue.

****, I completely forget about that possibility.

At least I forgot, a noob wouldn't even know, so as usual with PGI's balance decision, newbies are trapped, smart players exploit it, no balance achieved.

[Thalynos]

if you look at the 3pv of most of the posts in the op, the targeting reticule is pointed down, far away from the 6 little boxes representing weapon groups.
[color=#959595]Switched around turns into overlook of approaches to Sigma from Tower Island, epsilon, and ocean [/color]
[color=#959595]Overlook of entries/exits to Kappa, partial overlook of Theta and surrounding area[/color]
[color=#959595]Overlook of Kappa[/color]
[color=#959595]Overlook of approach to Gamma[/color][color=#959595] [/color]
those seem to be exceptions to varying degrees though two of them have the camera non centered but at the same time not very far from center.

It seems to me that most of those are ray trace issues and the excepts provide a wider field of view but mostly expose the mech anyway and the view is achieve-able by simply looking around in 1pv.

[DeadlyNerd]

Thalynos, on 22 August 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

if you look at the 3pv of most of the posts in the op, the targeting reticule is pointed down, far away from the 6 little boxes representing weapon groups.
[color=#959595]Switched around turns into overlook of approaches to Sigma from Tower Island, epsilon, and ocean [/color]
[color=#959595]Overlook of entries/exits to Kappa, partial overlook of Theta and surrounding area[/color]
[color=#959595]Overlook of Kappa[/color]
[color=#959595]Overlook of approach to Gamma[/color][color=#959595] [/color]
those seem to be exceptions to varying degrees though two of them have the camera non centered but at the same time not very far from center.

It seems to me that most of those are ray trace issues and the excepts provide a wider field of view but mostly expose the mech anyway and the view is achieve-able by simply looking around in 1pv.

Oh you little ignorant child. The video was up there for about 9 hours before you posted this. Your reply makes you look pretty dumb with what was presented in the OP at the time of your reply.

[Monky]

Thalynos, on 22 August 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

if you look at the 3pv of most of the posts in the op, the targeting reticule is pointed down, far away from the 6 little boxes representing weapon groups.
[color=#959595]Switched around turns into overlook of approaches to Sigma from Tower Island, epsilon, and ocean [/color]
[color=#959595]Overlook of entries/exits to Kappa, partial overlook of Theta and surrounding area[/color]
[color=#959595]Overlook of Kappa[/color]
[color=#959595]Overlook of approach to Gamma[/color][color=#959595] [/color]
those seem to be exceptions to varying degrees though two of them have the camera non centered but at the same time not very far from center.

It seems to me that most of those are ray trace issues and the excepts provide a wider field of view but mostly expose the mech anyway and the view is achieve-able by simply looking around in 1pv.

Well, I can sit here and say 'no it isn't' all day long, and you can sit here and say 'yes it is' just a long. How about some proof? I've done my part of it. If my word's not good enough for you, you have the power to prove me wrong - if your hunch is correct.

Additionally, as noted above, the ones immediately over kappa and the ones on the drums near gamma -could- actually be ray trace errors, but you are in appearance to everyone GREATLY exaggerating when you say 'most of the posts are x'. If you have some serious input, I'm all ears.

-- Actually, I see what you're seeing here, and you're in error. the way the crosshair draws, the aiming point from 3rd person will put the crosshair below the weapon cooldown boxes when it is over near objects - hop into training grounds and look for yourself. In the spider, even if you press C to center torso and go to 3PV, your crosshair is still below the weapons boxes unless you're looking right at the horizon. Any building will cause it to appear 'lower'.

In fact just to document this for posterity, because I can see how it will be confusing (and lordy knows everyone on the internet who is trying to make a point must immediately be called a liar or a con), I'll make a video demonstrating it, just for you.

http://www.twitch.tv...nky/b/450046456

There ya go! All cleared up?

Edited by Monky, 22 August 2013 - 11:47 PM.

[FrupertApricot]

Everyone needs to like ******* OP so much. This is the post we need to keep going!

[aniviron]

nehebkau, on 21 August 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

Given what you have shown, I can see how 3rd person could be used to gain an advantage. I think the point that PGI would make is that it is not an unfair advantage because everyone has access to it. That being said, I think some changes should be made to what you see when in 3rd person.

Fairness doesn't equate to funness. They could add a built-in aimbot to the game that everyone had equal access to as well, and that would be fair too- but it wouldn't be fun. It's just like 3pv. I don't aimbot because it's not fun, but if they put aimbotting in as a feature, I would have to play against people who did find it fun, and that would make the game unfun for me. While I am not saying that 3pv is as game-breaking as giving everyone an aimbot, the concept is the same- it forces every player to use it if they want to have a shot at winning, and because it is an unwanted, poorly-implemented feature, I'd rather play games where nobody had it than where everyone had it.

[Chemie]

Is this specific to the spider? Can you get same views with a jenner for example?

[Mr Blonde]

Thanks Monky for all your hard work tracking all that down. Must have taken some time! I'm not patient enough to do that, nor can I bear to soil my experience by using 3PV. I am encouraged to see the degree that 3PV has been utterly rejected, haven't seen anyone using it. Hopefully this is enough, but unfortunately it may encourage them to leave the mixed queue in place and not give us "Hardcore" (or as the community would know it, "MWO" mode). Who can say.

[NuclearPanda]

aniviron, on 23 August 2013 - 03:17 AM, said:

Fairness doesn't equate to funness. They could add a built-in aimbot to the game that everyone had equal access to as well, and that would be fair too- but it wouldn't be fun. It's just like 3pv. I don't aimbot because it's not fun, but if they put aimbotting in as a feature, I would have to play against people who did find it fun, and that would make the game unfun for me. While I am not saying that 3pv is as game-breaking as giving everyone an aimbot, the concept is the same- it forces every player to use it if they want to have a shot at winning, and because it is an unwanted, poorly-implemented feature, I'd rather play games where nobody had it than where everyone had it.

I may be wrong, but testing out the game last night it seemed like the cursor actually "snaps" to nearby mechs when in 3PV. It doesn't snap to cockpit or anything and it seems to snap in low, but the cursor absolutely jumps to the target. That seems kind of aimbot-ish to me.

[Jacmac]

DrDXZ, on 22 August 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

there is a nice little feature they didnt' tell anybody about (bad at communication? or hiding it in case of exploit)

Where if you're cursor/mech is in front of a nonmech object, 0-20m away, you're 3PV drone zooms in on the mech. This is put in place, so that if you got your face behind agiant rock 0-20m away, you can't see over it.

Exactly how do you know that this is or was ever an intended "feature". You're just guessing at all of this.

[RG Notch]

Monky, on 21 August 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

However the best will always push it to the razor's edge.

This part is why PGI and a lot of the White Knight brigade don't get it.

[CowboyHatValor]

And from my limited understanding of the feature, you know have a giant blinking red orb floating over your head alerting anyone in the vicinity as to which particular building the spider is hiding behind.

[Agelmar]

Has anyone asked the obvious question? What do 9 year olds think of the addition of 3pv? 9 year olds have money to buy MC and Phoenix pack$ right?

Edited by Agelmar, 23 August 2013 - 08:18 AM.

[Banshee Bullet]

Chemie, on 23 August 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

Is this specific to the spider? Can you get same views with a jenner for example?

You can get these same effects in any mech, I've seen a couple screen shots of people exploiting in an Atlas. Personally I just used the Spider so I could get where I was going in the Training Grounds faster.

Edited by Banshee Bullet, 23 August 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[Monky]

CowboyHatValor, on 23 August 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

And from my limited understanding of the feature, you know have a giant blinking red orb floating over your head alerting anyone in the vicinity as to which particular building the spider is hiding behind.

The issue here, is that sure, you can see that there is a single mech, which you cannot identify, using the 3PV drone. He, however, can see your entire team and tell what mechs you're using and where you're heading. This is merely the scouting part of the equation. It can also, like the video I posted, be used to greatly enhance jump sniping. Notice that I took a grand total of one laser beam hit in that video before I walked up and started exchanging blows rather than jump snipe (did that on purpose to illustrate). If the drone was effective at revealing my location and telling people that it was a jump sniper about to pop up so they could counter battery - either that technique was beyond the skill level of my opponents or the drone did not effectively help them. Either case is unfriendly to low skill/new players, and friendly to players who want to manipulate the 3PV camera for advantage.

Chemie, on 23 August 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

Is this specific to the spider? Can you get same views with a jenner for example?

Yes, any mech. Even an atlas can do it.

Mr Blonde, on 23 August 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Thanks Monky for all your hard work tracking all that down. Must have taken some time! I'm not patient enough to do that, nor can I bear to soil my experience by using 3PV. I am encouraged to see the degree that 3PV has been utterly rejected, haven't seen anyone using it. Hopefully this is enough, but unfortunately it may encourage them to leave the mixed queue in place and not give us "Hardcore" (or as the community would know it, "MWO" mode). Who can say.

The thing is, it took all of about 40 minutes on the initial screenshot run, and each of the videos took as long as the recording time, so another 15 minutes. In an hour, I was able to locate all of this info and get it posted up here, without having to do any preliminary work on what to look for. I just hopped in a map and started walking up to buildings.

Realistically, there are two possibilities;

A: The dev team knows this feature is busted, terrible, and a bad idea, but are forcing it on us any ways for (pick your reason)

B: The dev team cannot test their way out of a paper bag.

Given Paul's note that this is a ray trace bug, even though in an obscure location in the image he was commenting on, I can't honestly say which, but I suspect it might be a bit of both. Sorry to the devs if that is insulting, but this literally was child's play to figure out. If this where my product, I would be ashamed for such a controversial feature (which they very well knew was controversial) to have made it in without being given a basic run through to see if there are simple problems like this. It may seem unfair to some to hold them to standards, but that's the only thing that is healthy for MWO in the long run. Heck, even in the short run in this instance.

Edited by Monky, 23 August 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

Agelmar, on 23 August 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Has anyone asked the obvious question? What do 9 year olds think of the addition of 3pv? 9 year olds have money to buy MC and Phoenix pack$ right?

Their parents do however, sadly.

[Rippthrough]

Doesn't matter, all the 9 year olds will have rage quit over not being able to kill that blinking drone thing they keep shooting at.

Edited by Rippthrough, 23 August 2013 - 12:28 PM.

[Tennex]

Jacmac, on 23 August 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Exactly how do you know that this is or was ever an intended "feature". You're just guessing at all of this.

lol because it doesn't happen randomly? its not an unintended occurrence. if thats what you mean. doesn't take guessing to see that it happens consistently 0-20m.