Hokay, gentlefolk - now that I've got some games under my belt, I've got some silly newbie questions ™!
1) I /LOVE/ ... lovelovelove... Ravens. The two variants (2x and 4x) that I've basic-unlocked are both a joy, and I'm scraping together the cbills for the 3L now, to work on elite unlocks. So. The questions:
1a) Do elite unlocks unlock for all mechs of a set, or just one?
1b) LRMs are my bane - moreso than anything else. With the 2x and 4x, what's the best way to 'scrape off' LRMs or mitigate incoming LRM damage?
2) As I love Ravens (Have I mentioned that?) I find that my nemesis is the LRM launcher and other light mechs. I can take on mediums and heavies with reasonable success these days, but light mechs are an irritation. The irritation comes from speed: I don't have the C-Bills for 'stupid fast' engines, and haven't yet unlocked the speed tweak. Other lights recognize me as a primary threat, and I get lit up by Jenners and Commandos with startling regularity.
2a) Right now, I'm running a 210XL - moving it between mechs. This gives me 94KPH - plenty fast enough for engaging everything but other light mechs. I've run the Sarah's Jenner; I see the advantage of speed, but I actually am far more dangerous in my slower but more precise ravens. How fast is fast? I don't see the point in a 275XL - I can't mount any significant firepower on what are gunboat lights if I've loaded a 275, and my Jenner is less survivable. Will the 114kph of speed tweak be enough, or should I really try for faster still?
2b) Assuming I won't be as fast as the lighter lights, what are my best tactics for engaging them? (I already abuse Cicadas for the most part, but the tactics I use against them don't seem to work against spiders, Jenners, and Commandos.)
3) I love the 'fast gunboat' role, and find myself enjoying the heck out of it - heck, on rounds where I don't die early because I've done something stupid, I'm pulling 300+ damage a round! However, what's the best way to use WG 3 and 4? I have a six-button mouse - this helps - but I'd like some insight into the particulars of how you guys build out your weapon groups. Do you overlap groups? Do you assign them as discrete weapons sets? How do /you/ run?
And that's a good start! More questions to come, i'm sure.
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20 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:54 AM
A light mech should prioritize the enemy lights, and to do that you need to be as fast as they are. You'll notice the enemy lights are targeting you first. When the opposing lights are dead, then harassing bigger mechs is great.
A 94 kph raven will be eaten alive by other lights, at 94 you're even slower than a Hunchback (top speed of 98)
Obviously that means an xl engine and that means time and money, and I wish you the best of luck on that endeavour. I can't recall the top speed of an RVN 4x, but you basically want to be going at your maximum possible speed, not 94. The 3L has an even higher top speed and can compete with the fastest lights.
A 94 kph raven will be eaten alive by other lights, at 94 you're even slower than a Hunchback (top speed of 98)
Obviously that means an xl engine and that means time and money, and I wish you the best of luck on that endeavour. I can't recall the top speed of an RVN 4x, but you basically want to be going at your maximum possible speed, not 94. The 3L has an even higher top speed and can compete with the fastest lights.
#3
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:56 AM
First of all, welcome to MWO! Glad to have you here! 
I find it amusing that you like the 2X and 4X, because those are the most maligned of the light mechs as being some of the worst in the game. I, like you, always found them interesting, but I will say, you are in for a treat when you get your 3L
1a) Just one. You will have to unlock elite for all three. There is a bonus, though. When you unlock all your elites for a variant, it doubles the bonuses of your basic!
1b) Try to free up 1.5t and put AMS in your Raven. This will mitigate the damage when you are not in cover, which you should always be in cover
2a) This is going to come down to personal preference, but if you can post your build (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab) we can get a better idea of what you are doing, so we can help
This is all playstyle, though, and, personally, in a slower light like this, I would stick to the biggest, fattest group of assaults you can find and play fire support. It is a great role for you and they will love it. You can fight the lights while they are trying to pick off your assaults. Then, the assaults will protect you from the bigger mechs. It's a win - win.
2b) Also your playstyle, and also based on your weapons. Lots of folks enjoy SSRMs for lights and, especially with the recent BUFF to their damage, they seem to be an excellent weapon.
That said, a good gauss to the leg is always welcome, too. Focus on their legs, that is first priority with lights, since they have very thin armor (as you well know, Raven pilot)
3) Do not get your weapon system so rigged out it gets confusing. For example, on my Atlas, I have 3 weapon groups - 1: 4x Meds, 2: 2xUAC5, 3: 2xLRM15s.
Now, for the LRMs, I have another button that allows me to chain fire, so, in that case, 4.
Group like ranged/timed weapons with one another and, if you have the room, create another group for those same weapons, but chainfired. This will allow you to mitigate heat when you are starting to feel the burn and still keep in combat. Sometimes all you need is one shot, and this will give it to you!
Just remember - keep it simple! You do not want to have to think when firing your weapons!! That fraction of a second can get you killed!
Once again, WELCOME TO MWO! We are honored and glad to have you!
I find it amusing that you like the 2X and 4X, because those are the most maligned of the light mechs as being some of the worst in the game. I, like you, always found them interesting, but I will say, you are in for a treat when you get your 3L
1a) Just one. You will have to unlock elite for all three. There is a bonus, though. When you unlock all your elites for a variant, it doubles the bonuses of your basic!
1b) Try to free up 1.5t and put AMS in your Raven. This will mitigate the damage when you are not in cover, which you should always be in cover
2a) This is going to come down to personal preference, but if you can post your build (http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab) we can get a better idea of what you are doing, so we can help
This is all playstyle, though, and, personally, in a slower light like this, I would stick to the biggest, fattest group of assaults you can find and play fire support. It is a great role for you and they will love it. You can fight the lights while they are trying to pick off your assaults. Then, the assaults will protect you from the bigger mechs. It's a win - win.2b) Also your playstyle, and also based on your weapons. Lots of folks enjoy SSRMs for lights and, especially with the recent BUFF to their damage, they seem to be an excellent weapon.
That said, a good gauss to the leg is always welcome, too. Focus on their legs, that is first priority with lights, since they have very thin armor (as you well know, Raven pilot
)3) Do not get your weapon system so rigged out it gets confusing. For example, on my Atlas, I have 3 weapon groups - 1: 4x Meds, 2: 2xUAC5, 3: 2xLRM15s.
Now, for the LRMs, I have another button that allows me to chain fire, so, in that case, 4.
Group like ranged/timed weapons with one another and, if you have the room, create another group for those same weapons, but chainfired. This will allow you to mitigate heat when you are starting to feel the burn and still keep in combat. Sometimes all you need is one shot, and this will give it to you!
Just remember - keep it simple!
You do not want to have to think when firing your weapons!! That fraction of a second can get you killed!Once again, WELCOME TO MWO!
We are honored and glad to have you!
#4
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 06:59 AM
Redshift2k5, on 23 August 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:
A light mech should prioritize the enemy lights, and to do that you need to be as fast as they are. You'll notice the enemy lights are targeting you first. When the opposing lights are dead, then harassing bigger mechs is great.
A 94 kph raven will be eaten alive by other lights, at 94 you're even slower than a Hunchback (top speed of 98)
Obviously that means an xl engine and that means time and money, and I wish you the best of luck on that endeavour. I can't recall the top speed of an RVN 4x, but you basically want to be going at your maximum possible speed, not 94. The 3L has an even higher top speed and can compete with the fastest lights.
A 94 kph raven will be eaten alive by other lights, at 94 you're even slower than a Hunchback (top speed of 98)
Obviously that means an xl engine and that means time and money, and I wish you the best of luck on that endeavour. I can't recall the top speed of an RVN 4x, but you basically want to be going at your maximum possible speed, not 94. The 3L has an even higher top speed and can compete with the fastest lights.
Red is mostly right, but...
The 3L ~is~ the fastest of the lights, at 151kph...
the 2X and 4X have a max speed of 124kph (with speed tweak), but are the exceptions if you play them as fire support.
Also, check this forum for more advise on the mechs themselves and for build ideas
-- http://www.mechspecs.com/forum/It is a wonderful community of helpful and intelligent folks. You will fit right in
#5
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- Stone Cold
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:00 AM
The elite unlocks are per-mech, just like the basics. Once you reach the elite tier (three mechs of a chassis with basics all complete) the basic skills are all doubled
#6
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:01 AM
1. You have to unlock it per mech, its opened up for all 3 but you still have to spend to xp per mech.
2. Know your terrain and don't be afraid to run away. If you have ECM LRM's shouldn't ever hit you, as you can break LOS to tag and they wont be able to get a lock in general.
3. 97 kph? That is dirt slow for a mech of that type. You need to be pushing 120 at least, and I prefer 120. 150 is nice but not required.
4. Have friends, Ravens tend to be under gunned for fighting lights. Ravens are also a bit more fragile as their legs are VERY easy to hit and take out compared to other lights.
One item of note, pick your role and build for it. Faster units can scout, skirmish, or support. The Raven is an good (excellent with ecm) scout but also great support mech in most configurations. Your a little under gunned to get out there and skirmish with swarms of other lights.
If you don't have tag equipped already, I highly recommend it. Nothing ruins another lights day more than being tagged, unable to break lock, and having a swarm of lrm's incoming.
Until you can purchase a larger engine, you really cant scout or skirmish well. I suggest building for the support role. Stay with the main group, try to stay on the sides out of sight. If your going to be going that slow anyway you can consider a couple Large Lasers or PPC's, fire, hide, and repeat.
2. Know your terrain and don't be afraid to run away. If you have ECM LRM's shouldn't ever hit you, as you can break LOS to tag and they wont be able to get a lock in general.
3. 97 kph? That is dirt slow for a mech of that type. You need to be pushing 120 at least, and I prefer 120. 150 is nice but not required.
4. Have friends, Ravens tend to be under gunned for fighting lights. Ravens are also a bit more fragile as their legs are VERY easy to hit and take out compared to other lights.
One item of note, pick your role and build for it. Faster units can scout, skirmish, or support. The Raven is an good (excellent with ecm) scout but also great support mech in most configurations. Your a little under gunned to get out there and skirmish with swarms of other lights.
If you don't have tag equipped already, I highly recommend it. Nothing ruins another lights day more than being tagged, unable to break lock, and having a swarm of lrm's incoming.
Until you can purchase a larger engine, you really cant scout or skirmish well. I suggest building for the support role. Stay with the main group, try to stay on the sides out of sight. If your going to be going that slow anyway you can consider a couple Large Lasers or PPC's, fire, hide, and repeat.
Edited by Corison, 23 August 2013 - 07:06 AM.
#7
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:07 AM
1) You'll love the 3L. ECM is a powerful tool indeed, and a single SRM6+A can play hell with rear armor.
1a) Just one, unfortunately.
1b) Simply put, speed and usage of cover. Failing that, mount an AMS and hope for the best.
2) A Jenner-F, my favorite light variant, eats Ravens for breakfast. It mounts the firepower of a medium mech in a tiny, lightning-quick package, and can land 30 damage alphas on your legs in a few seconds. Jenners are the sharks of the light world; they'll eat you alive. Avoid them if possible. Commandos are annoying little pixies... my advice would be to strip their arms, or just blow their torsos to scrap.
2a) It is always best to mount the biggest XL possible in any light mech. This gives you a speed advantage against other mechs, enabling you to maneuver yourself to the best possible location to rain death. Just keep on grinding for that fat XL295, you won't regret it. Also, don't feel bad about moving parts between mechs... I usually advise my friends to keep an engine in the mechs they use most, but otherwise just have one of each kind on hand for whenever you need it. This is after you've gotten the engines required for your Ravens, and have moved on to bigger mechs.
2b) Legs. Legs, legs, and more legs. Did I mention legs? My best strategy for killing enemy lights is to pop them in their legs repeatedly. A legged light is a dead light.
3) If I'm running all the same type of weapon, I assign the weapons on my left to the left mouse button, and the weapons on my right to the right mouse button. Otherwise, I usually load my primary guns on mouse one, my secondary gun on mouse two, and other groups on 3 and 4, respectively. For lasers, I try and chainfire them, since it's not an issue for me to click rapidly if I need to.
1a) Just one, unfortunately.
1b) Simply put, speed and usage of cover. Failing that, mount an AMS and hope for the best.
2) A Jenner-F, my favorite light variant, eats Ravens for breakfast. It mounts the firepower of a medium mech in a tiny, lightning-quick package, and can land 30 damage alphas on your legs in a few seconds. Jenners are the sharks of the light world; they'll eat you alive. Avoid them if possible. Commandos are annoying little pixies... my advice would be to strip their arms, or just blow their torsos to scrap.
2a) It is always best to mount the biggest XL possible in any light mech. This gives you a speed advantage against other mechs, enabling you to maneuver yourself to the best possible location to rain death. Just keep on grinding for that fat XL295, you won't regret it. Also, don't feel bad about moving parts between mechs... I usually advise my friends to keep an engine in the mechs they use most, but otherwise just have one of each kind on hand for whenever you need it. This is after you've gotten the engines required for your Ravens, and have moved on to bigger mechs.
2b) Legs. Legs, legs, and more legs. Did I mention legs? My best strategy for killing enemy lights is to pop them in their legs repeatedly. A legged light is a dead light.
3) If I'm running all the same type of weapon, I assign the weapons on my left to the left mouse button, and the weapons on my right to the right mouse button. Otherwise, I usually load my primary guns on mouse one, my secondary gun on mouse two, and other groups on 3 and 4, respectively. For lasers, I try and chainfire them, since it's not an issue for me to click rapidly if I need to.
#9
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:10 AM
Side note, it can be fun to run a "slow" light.. but I don't recommend it without ecm and a fair bit of practice. The Gauss/AC20 Raven can be fun at times, and one I run myself off and on is dual large lasers. You really have to stay with the group, out of sight, and pick your shots with that style of light however as you don't have the armor to take any real damage once someone picks you as a target.
You can also do the AC2 annoyance mechs, but I don't recommend them.
You can also do the AC2 annoyance mechs, but I don't recommend them.
#10
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:40 AM
I would recommend the XL280 engine for the 3L instead of the XL295. It makes the 3L nearly as fast while leaving crucial room for armor/weapons over the cookie-cutter builds.
#11
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:00 AM
Interesting.
My 4x, is, oddly, my favorite mech; with it, I stay in a support role, wandering behind our assault line. As they engage, I usually flank their targets and shred already damaged sections. I tried it with an ultra AC/5 and enjoyed the heck out of it, but the build that just does astoundingly fun things for me is this one:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9a4c26e8124d32a
What's odd is that the only mechs that seem to be a significant worry (I still do lots of stupid things, so I can't say I'm up with the best pilots - take that into account!) are Jenners. They hit hard, they move fast... but the biggest issue is that I get all 'flaily' with my guns against them. Er. I panic, they shred me. Against other mechs, the relatively heavy armor ('cause I can't move fast) and the fact that most people can't keep their targeting reticle in one spot makes my survivability quite decent.
If I use a cicada as my other example... I tear them apart, most of the time. Once I strip armor from a section, they go down quick, and a nearly 40-point alpha ain't nothin' to sniff at.
Mind you - I'm a strictly pub player, at the moment, and I've much to learn! But playing sniper early on and finisher in the endgame seems to be working very well.
My 4x, is, oddly, my favorite mech; with it, I stay in a support role, wandering behind our assault line. As they engage, I usually flank their targets and shred already damaged sections. I tried it with an ultra AC/5 and enjoyed the heck out of it, but the build that just does astoundingly fun things for me is this one:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9a4c26e8124d32a
What's odd is that the only mechs that seem to be a significant worry (I still do lots of stupid things, so I can't say I'm up with the best pilots - take that into account!) are Jenners. They hit hard, they move fast... but the biggest issue is that I get all 'flaily' with my guns against them. Er. I panic, they shred me. Against other mechs, the relatively heavy armor ('cause I can't move fast) and the fact that most people can't keep their targeting reticle in one spot makes my survivability quite decent.
If I use a cicada as my other example... I tear them apart, most of the time. Once I strip armor from a section, they go down quick, and a nearly 40-point alpha ain't nothin' to sniff at.
Mind you - I'm a strictly pub player, at the moment, and I've much to learn! But playing sniper early on and finisher in the endgame seems to be working very well.
#12
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:02 AM
My tier of purpose regarding speed and break point
150+ keep up with the fastest in the game, pure scouts
110+ light hunters, harasser, 2ndary scout, finisher
95+ medium hunters, light deterent, flanker, finisher
80+ opening creator, martyr, rescuer, "i'm in your base and you HAVE to bring more people back"
70ish common speed, move in group
70- weapon with leg, hope group don't leave you behind
150+ keep up with the fastest in the game, pure scouts
110+ light hunters, harasser, 2ndary scout, finisher
95+ medium hunters, light deterent, flanker, finisher
80+ opening creator, martyr, rescuer, "i'm in your base and you HAVE to bring more people back"
70ish common speed, move in group
70- weapon with leg, hope group don't leave you behind
Edited by pulupulu, 23 August 2013 - 08:14 AM.
#13
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:03 AM
Huh! Tons of good advice here - and thank you, folks! I've much to digest for my next few bouts - and I'll return with updates.
#14
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:04 AM
Hey Jonah,
I haven't actually played so I have to live vicariously through these forums and YouTube videos (computer is too weak to run big stompy robots). However I have read a couple good threads on Ravens in the Battlemech Guides section of the forums. Go to Training Grounds > Guides and Strategies > Battlemech Guides > Light Mechs.
Near the top is 'I'm curious let's discuss the Raven' (this is an old thread which has been recently raised but it might give you some back ground for your favorite mech). Another thread which is near the top is 'Bad 'Mechs Anonymous: Raven 2x' (this thread talks about making the most of your 2x, the OP is fun as it reads a bit like an AA meeting). You might find other threads that might help you too.
EDIT: sorry got your name wrong
I haven't actually played so I have to live vicariously through these forums and YouTube videos (computer is too weak to run big stompy robots). However I have read a couple good threads on Ravens in the Battlemech Guides section of the forums. Go to Training Grounds > Guides and Strategies > Battlemech Guides > Light Mechs.
Near the top is 'I'm curious let's discuss the Raven' (this is an old thread which has been recently raised but it might give you some back ground for your favorite mech). Another thread which is near the top is 'Bad 'Mechs Anonymous: Raven 2x' (this thread talks about making the most of your 2x, the OP is fun as it reads a bit like an AA meeting). You might find other threads that might help you too.
EDIT: sorry got your name wrong
Edited by Johnny Marek Summers, 23 August 2013 - 08:27 AM.
#15
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:12 AM
Redshift2k5, on 23 August 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:
A light mech should prioritize the enemy lights, and to do that you need to be as fast as they are. You'll notice the enemy lights are targeting you first. When the opposing lights are dead, then harassing bigger mechs is great.
A 94 kph raven will be eaten alive by other lights, at 94 you're even slower than a Hunchback (top speed of 98)
Obviously that means an xl engine and that means time and money, and I wish you the best of luck on that endeavour. I can't recall the top speed of an RVN 4x, but you basically want to be going at your maximum possible speed, not 94. The 3L has an even higher top speed and can compete with the fastest lights.
A 94 kph raven will be eaten alive by other lights, at 94 you're even slower than a Hunchback (top speed of 98)
Obviously that means an xl engine and that means time and money, and I wish you the best of luck on that endeavour. I can't recall the top speed of an RVN 4x, but you basically want to be going at your maximum possible speed, not 94. The 3L has an even higher top speed and can compete with the fastest lights.
HBKs Topspeed is 92,5 with Speed tweak and 260 engine.
RVN-2X is just fine. Know your place, I'd say. Use your jumpjets. 2X is the only Raven JJ-capable.
I run mine with XL-245 (124km/h), BAP, AMS, AC2, 2ML. Really fun, rather less effective in comparison to the 3L.
#16
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:12 AM
http://mwomercs.com/...yload-overview/
is a good visual thread to show you, who got enough weapon to kill you if you are not pass certain speed.
if the target is near your speed (5 kph will take too long to out run) or faster, but carry 5ish more ton, good chances that you are screwed.
is a good visual thread to show you, who got enough weapon to kill you if you are not pass certain speed.
if the target is near your speed (5 kph will take too long to out run) or faster, but carry 5ish more ton, good chances that you are screwed.
Edited by pulupulu, 23 August 2013 - 08:15 AM.
#17
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 08:17 AM
Motroid, on 23 August 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:
HBKs Topspeed is 92,5 with Speed tweak and 260 engine.
RVN-2X is just fine. Know your place, I'd say. Use your jumpjets. 2X is the only Raven JJ-capable.
I run mine with XL-245 (124km/h), BAP, AMS, AC2, 2ML. Really fun, rather less effective in comparison to the 3L.
RVN-2X is just fine. Know your place, I'd say. Use your jumpjets. 2X is the only Raven JJ-capable.
I run mine with XL-245 (124km/h), BAP, AMS, AC2, 2ML. Really fun, rather less effective in comparison to the 3L.
... one thing. My 4X has jumpjets, and likes flying just fine.
#18
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 09:20 AM
Motroid, on 23 August 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:
HBKs Topspeed is 92,5 with Speed tweak and 260 engine.
98kph now, since its engine limit was raised to 275.
#19
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- Stone Cold
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 12:33 PM
I fiddled with your build a bit:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aa7e85503cdb26a
Do you really need two tons of MG ammo? One ton will last a long time even with two MGs. I also switched the MPULSE down to a medium, and was able to load a much larger engine while maintaining the same number of heatsinks. Additional engine size unfortunately is not an option for the 4x but will be on your eventual 3L purchase.
Of course this build will require significant investment for the engine and FF armor, I'm not saying you have to build it but I do want you to explore your options. The same guns (very nearly the same anyway) but fully 25% faster will make a big difference.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aa7e85503cdb26a
Do you really need two tons of MG ammo? One ton will last a long time even with two MGs. I also switched the MPULSE down to a medium, and was able to load a much larger engine while maintaining the same number of heatsinks. Additional engine size unfortunately is not an option for the 4x but will be on your eventual 3L purchase.
Of course this build will require significant investment for the engine and FF armor, I'm not saying you have to build it but I do want you to explore your options. The same guns (very nearly the same anyway) but fully 25% faster will make a big difference.
#20
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Posted 23 August 2013 - 03:44 PM
Redshift2k5 -
I.. really ran with that build. As I was saving up for that 3L, it occurred to me that maximizing a mech might be a better idea - /really/ learning things - rather than just jumping in on the really expensive one before opportunity presented itself. Besides, I could use the 245 in the 3L down the way, at least at first.
So! I've modified things to the following, starting with your tweaks:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1d9022bc5dd4e2b
Honestly, I dropped the SRM 6 as I'm having a hard time working it easily into the rotation - it's not that it's hard to hit with it, but in the heat of the moment, and with still being new, it's actually hard to remember to shoot the darned thing. Modified to a streak SRM 2, added an additional jumpjet, and went back up to an mpulse with the 245. The heat efficiency's better, and my DR from the MWO mech loadout is 30 - I lost a little, but no more forgetting the big "shotgun" either, at least until I get better at playing.
I'll let you know how it works tonight!
I.. really ran with that build. As I was saving up for that 3L, it occurred to me that maximizing a mech might be a better idea - /really/ learning things - rather than just jumping in on the really expensive one before opportunity presented itself. Besides, I could use the 245 in the 3L down the way, at least at first.
So! I've modified things to the following, starting with your tweaks:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1d9022bc5dd4e2b
Honestly, I dropped the SRM 6 as I'm having a hard time working it easily into the rotation - it's not that it's hard to hit with it, but in the heat of the moment, and with still being new, it's actually hard to remember to shoot the darned thing. Modified to a streak SRM 2, added an additional jumpjet, and went back up to an mpulse with the 245. The heat efficiency's better, and my DR from the MWO mech loadout is 30 - I lost a little, but no more forgetting the big "shotgun" either, at least until I get better at playing.
I'll let you know how it works tonight!
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