77 replies to this topic

[Racklesnack]

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Edit to try and fix that ^

Edited by Mr Titian, 26 August 2013 - 04:39 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

AC, on 26 August 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

I took the money I was going to spend on Phoenix and gave it to them. The communication is there, and the Dev seems very competent. The videos explaining his thought process and testing point to a Dev that clearly understands project management and where to get the biggest bang for his buck/time. This is something PGI lacks sorely.... they devote so much wasted time and effort on things that either P.O. the community or have very little impact on improving the game.

3PV. I rarely use it and only have used it to give me a visual advantage over the enemy by hiding behind terrain. I look around and see almost no one else using it so I have to ask myself, am I in to high of an ELO to see new players using it? Or are new players turning it off in favor of 1PV?

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

I only use 3pv on occasion and that is mostly just to peek over things but the fighting is always in 1st. Having arms locked is way too much of a handicap.

[RedThirteen]

Alekzander Smirnoff, on 26 August 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

I only use 3pv on occasion and that is mostly just to peek over things but the fighting is always in 1st. Having arms locked is way too much of a handicap.

Question asked most frequently in-game is "how do i turn off third person view?". Given the vehement opposition to such a feature which has rather limited use or appeal it's a wonder why they'd implemented it in the first place. You know, time saving and the likes.

[Dirus Nigh]

General Taskeen, on 23 August 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Oh? Star Citizen is promising all kinds of simulation things, a flight simulator in space, and look how much money is being thrown at it.

Other examples;

X3: Rebirth
EVE Valkyre
IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad
ARMA III
DCS Series
ETC.

Simulation games are alive and well and people throw money at them.

There are some awesome realistic space sims that have come out in the past year or two.

kerbal space program, which I am playing as I type this. Waiting for my lander to reach it's maneuver node.

There is also Lunar lander simulator.
The player controles a lunar lander modeled off of the Apollo lunar lander. You do a handful of missions around the moon.

Take on Mars

The player controles a rover on mars doing missions based on the type of real life missions NASA has done with it's martian rovers.

A Space Shuttle simulator

Universal Sandbox
It's a physics simulator. From particle physics all the way up to the galactic scale.

Then of course there are flight sims.
Jane's Flight simulators.
The ever popular Microsoft Flight simulator.

then there is
Trucking
Farming
Rail/train
Nascar

Then the social sims
THE SIMS
Farmville
That one on nintendo the name of is on the tip of my tongue but cant remember.

Then there is...
Roller coster
Amusmentpark
Prison
tourest resort
Zoo
digital pets

Hell some of the biggest games from play station have been simulators
Look at the Grand tarismo series.

Then there was Steel Battalion

Granted some of the above might appeal to a small costomer base. But the majority of this stuff is huge.

[AC]

Hexenhammer, on 26 August 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

3PV. I rarely use it and only have used it to give me a visual advantage over the enemy by hiding behind terrain. I look around and see almost no one else using it so I have to ask myself, am I in to high of an ELO to see new players using it? Or are new players turning it off in favor of 1PV?

That is one of the things they wasted time on, another was broken ECM implementation/functionality, and yet another is this horribly conceived phantom heat, and yet another is the gauss charge up for firing delay. Rather than just looking for the root cause of their issues and addressing those, they bandaid the symptoms with convoluted and complicated solutions.

[Novakaine]

The time and effort wasted on 3pV would have been better spent on community warfare.
This game has a high learning curve to begin with, and I don't remember getting training wheels for it.
People will come and play because they like it, and will take the time and effort to learn it just like any other game.
3PV do I use it - nope.
Have I noticed many people using it - nope.
So there in lies the problem 3PV could have and should waited until later.
Not shoved out the door at an already angry mob.
Leaving promised features on the drawing board for another year.
If PGI is going for the COD type gamers guess what they already have the product as it is today.
Anyway faithful fans have just ran out of endurance.
So what did PGI expect?

[Lokust Davion]

the problem with 3pv is its not helpful enough for newbies. i would love for 3pv to show the mech's legs so i can see where it is pointing to while im torsotwisting. also, i find the auto targeting made it harder for me to aim exactly where i want.

personally i dont mind if they implement 3pv as long as its helpful and not a hindrance for new players.

[Pugnax]

Anyone who wants MWO to succeed should not be encouraging bad press, all you will be doing is hurting the game by making it seem dead to new potential players. It's easy to get riled up about changes being made etc. regarding things you don't agree with but the game is still well-balanced, visually appealing and fun to play. At least for me. That's what it's all about.

[Corvus Antaka]

Pugnax, on 27 August 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

Anyone who wants MWO to succeed should not be encouraging bad press, all you will be doing is hurting the game by making it seem dead to new potential players. It's easy to get riled up about changes being made etc. regarding things you don't agree with but the game is still well-balanced, visually appealing and fun to play. At least for me. That's what it's all about.

Yup.

Keep cheering for that bad press. You think PGI backpedalling, pulling 3PV and alienating newbies will be good press?

foolishness to the extreme.

Fortunately, bad press is better than no press, and most people will still try the game for themselves.

If indeed this is the MWO killer, at least we know that the blame isn't squarely on PGI's shoulders, but also on the whinos who couldnt see past their own small egos.

I for one hope PGI weathers this storm, I'd rather play mech than help to crush the only good mech we've had in 10 years.

Which is something that I feel the trolls obviously could care less about.

[RG Notch]

It's hilarious to watch the people who would defend PGI on the basis of this being the only BT game around, I guess no matter what they do it's ok. Guess who has the most ability to control bad press... I'll give you a hint it's not the players. I guess lots of people would like to try a game that ignores it's player base and has forum revolts. Maybe if PGI could see past their egos and address some issues instead of "apologizing" after they screw up yet again. 3 weeks and it won't just be players spreading bad press, I'm sure this game will review well what with it's stellar new player experience, excellent balance and super happy player base.
Maybe it won't take 10 years next time and maybe a competent team will get the rights next time.

[Kraven Kor]

Pugnax, on 27 August 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

Anyone who wants MWO to succeed should not be encouraging bad press, all you will be doing is hurting the game by making it seem dead to new potential players. It's easy to get riled up about changes being made etc. regarding things you don't agree with but the game is still well-balanced, visually appealing and fun to play. At least for me. That's what it's all about.

I was not spreading negative feedback until they opted to go back on their word and introduce 3PV without the promised split queues.

PGI has done this to themselves, and only they can fix it.

[RedThirteen]

Kraven Kor, on 27 August 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

I was not spreading negative feedback until they opted to go back on their word and introduce 3PV without the promised split queues.

PGI has done this to themselves, and only they can fix it.

Perhaps there are insufficient player numbers to warrant segregating the queue?

[ShadowSpirit]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 August 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

Yup.

Keep cheering for that bad press. You think PGI backpedalling, pulling 3PV and alienating newbies will be good press?

foolishness to the extreme.

Fortunately, bad press is better than no press, and most people will still try the game for themselves.

If indeed this is the MWO killer, at least we know that the blame isn't squarely on PGI's shoulders, but also on the whinos who couldnt see past their own small egos.

I for one hope PGI weathers this storm, I'd rather play mech than help to crush the only good mech we've had in 10 years.

Which is something that I feel the trolls obviously could care less about.

I respect your opinion Pada but PGI brought this onto themselves. The bad press is a result of their mishandling.

Edited by ShadowSpirit, 28 August 2013 - 12:44 AM.

[Pat Kell]

freakin 12 year olds....mad cuz momma didn't give them everyhting they wanted, exactly how they wanted it. Thats all this is.

[Maethos]

Kushko, on 25 August 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

And you think acting like children and stomping your feet or holding your breath will change PGIs shortcomings? Or their perception of you as "suckers"? I'm not saying i dont agree with some or even most of the grevances against PGI and their very poorly implemented and thought out ideas, but the way some of the members are acting on these forums is just shameful.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

There are a few that acted out, but not enough the shameful tag and if anything would be a shared tag for PGI and community as both sides have mistakes. Instead of focusing on current 3pv perceived, I choose to point out, how it effects upcoming features and will hurt light mechs. Legitimate issues are being posted and are far from whining. The one's that seem to be going to far, IMO just are acting out over the slew of issues they feel exist and 3pv broke the proverbial camel's back.

Its a shame that after all this time it has come to this. Wish it didn't happen, not participating in threats, but the shame mostly lies with pgi, they are at the helm and its their leadership that has brought us here. Series of communication errors or lies, it no longer matters, only the aftermath exist and needs to be dealt with. I for one hope for the best as I love the mechwarrior IP and want it to go on.

Maethos

[Corvus Antaka]

ShadowSpirit, on 27 August 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

I respect your opinion Panda but PGI brought this onto themselves. The bad press is a result of their mishandling.

My name is not Panda. It's Pada.

Not a big deal, is it? I hear "Panda Vision" all the time. You think it's annoying? yes, sometimes, it does get annoying.

Sometimes I feel I am surounded by illeterate 3 year olds that can not spell or read.

Now, no offense to you. this is not personal.

Seems to be a very common mistake.

PGI's mishandling is dead on. Whatever goes on at IGP/PGI there is obviously "issues". Fairly apparent given both the backlash and the obvious glaring mistakes in how this was handled.

Simply saying "merged 1PV/3PV ques for now, until we see how abuseable 3PV is" would have gone a long way. A better initial stance would have gone a long way.

I love 1PV too. I hate ridge peeking, it's gay and I know how it totally destroyed good gamepaly in mech4. None of us want to see that happen here.

What I'm asking for is some common sense. I don't call you all ******* illeterate ******* for being unable to read or say my online MWO handle. I don't go apeshit everytime someone ***** this up.

But everytime PGI makes even the tiniest fuckup, the vitriol, the insanity, the "Refund requests" etc, is beyond ridiculous. Gamers are toting around anger packs of blackmail "balance it my way or I'm leaving!!! WAAAAAHHH" like 5 year old children.

Despite everything, despite ALL the "fuckups" - here, now, a mere weeks before release, we have a very solid mech game.

Gauss desync will probably cleanup weapon balance even more. Yes, things need tweaking. but the game for me, it looks great, it plays great. I get norespawn mechwarrior with a varied loadout always possible - i can boat 4 ERPPC, 2 AC/20, or i can take some wierd stock mech and have FUN! fighting robots. And almost always score well. regardless of what I take. and yet some games are a dice roll. just like tabletop. its fun.

This game gives EPIC moments, when your 4 down, 2 men left, and you win. etc etc.

I do not want 3PV ridge peeking. I too want this fixed.

But screaming like idiots, going on about the "lies" with ZERO thought for introducing new people (like my wife, who enjoys it in 3PV, but 1PV makes her brain hurt) and other ridiculous stuff, and add to that we have "goons", known for trolling and just being douches for the fun of it, well, bluntly put

some of you really are illiterate idiots, that obviously care nothing for this game, and everything for your own tiny little egos.

And no, I won't spellcheck this. And yes, you can grammar or spelling bee attack me. Just like you did Russ when he tried to be a nice human being and apologize.

The only thing that matters to me is a future of fun mech gaming.

And the only future there is the one all of us gamers build together.

Doing that takes more than savemwo, or screaming for refunds when PGI attempts to merge the 3PV and 1PV for a few weeks to see what happens.

Doing that takes thinking beyond this moment, to CW, to a bigger community, and to not only satisfying the founders but seeing the value in introducing a new generation of gamers to mechs.

we all got 3PV, in mech2, mech3, mech4. It is unfair for us to expect to not give this experience to others as they join this community.

And yes, I expect some optional force first person for an option in private matches. I would be most happy if PGI just lowered the camera and shifted it to the side so that looking over ridges was impossible, making the entire debate a mute point.

But, to date, I have not found myself hindered by 3PV in any match, nor have I sene more than a handful of drones. And while abuses are possible, and while the community rages, who is to say PGI won't fix 3PV? They managed to fix "boatwarrior online" and it worked.

Maybe I do not see every failing. Maybe I prefer to look at the bright side. Maybe it's time those of you with so much rage inside tried a more intelligent and understanding tone, one that isn't so demeaning towards PGI that PGI rightfully looks the other way.

Things change. that's life.

get on with it.

[Maethos]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 August 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

Yup.

Keep cheering for that bad press. You think PGI backpedalling, pulling 3PV and alienating newbies will be good press?

foolishness to the extreme.

Fortunately, bad press is better than no press, and most people will still try the game for themselves.

If indeed this is the MWO killer, at least we know that the blame isn't squarely on PGI's shoulders, but also on the whinos who couldnt see past their own small egos.

I for one hope PGI weathers this storm, I'd rather play mech than help to crush the only good mech we've had in 10 years.

Which is something that I feel the trolls obviously could care less about.

True bad press is better then no press, But the ownership of good/bad and success/failure will be PGI's doing not the community. Its called Leadership. When a quarterback passes the ball and the receiver drops the ball or runs the wrong pattern , the QB ratings drop and position can be at jeopardy

As a military vet, and city manager if something goes wrong, regardless of how far removed or inevitable they may be. The fault and repercussions are mine to deal with. To simply just sit back and just accept what ever pgi puts into MWO, just because its the only MW title out there is plain silly. If you like cool, then support it. If you don't like something then say it, it is beta after all and feedback is what we are here for.

The bad press cheering is not about wanting to kill MWO, its just players whom love the IP and from their perspective are trying to keep it alive(IMO). If MWO fails how inclined will a new dev be willing to gamble on taking it up, so they try and force some changes and save it by cheering some bad press. I don't cheer for it, but accept that some do. Its really not that hard to find common ground.

In-fact there was common ground, one part of community never wanted to see 3pv and another wanted it., pgi's solution was split q's, not perfect but with it not being in cw was something that seemed to be workable for most. If we didn't have enough player base to support the split Q, I would say we have bigger problems then 3pv can solve. Time will tell, but it is PGI's ship to sail or sink.

Best of luck PGI and Happy Hunting All
Maethos

[ShadowSpirit]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 28 August 2013 - 12:05 AM, said:

My name is not Panda. It's Pada.

Fixed. I can read when I want to.

As for the "issues" .... they spent time developing 3PV for what purpose exactly? To grow the game? So the game is shrinking or stagnant? Seems to me things aren't going well otherwise they wouldn't take drastic measures knowing full well the repercussions. If the rumors are true and the publisher is calling the shots then it seems to me they are strapped for cash.

I was always leery that PGI had bit off more than it could chew. They promised the moon and so far have delivered a mediocre shooter and with the AAA releases coming down the pipe in the genre they are in for a difficult next few months.

I keep hoping that this "September release" or "UI 2.0" is going to exceed expectations and make me fall in love with this game again but the reality is I bought into the vision of the game, dropped a few hundred on this game to support it, and the developer seemingly took that for granted and turned the game 180 degrees. Yes, I asked for a refund. I want PGI to know I am serious. I doubt even 5% of the people who bought Phoenix asked for a refund but this is my line in the sand. If they start showing a change of heart I may very well repurchase.

In conclusion .... If they developed a robust community warfare system and/or group friendly matches I do not see any problem with a subscription tier to help them keep the lights on and pay the bills.

This game is so very unfriendly to new players that 3PV, Arm Lock, ELO, etc. is missing the forest for the trees. They are dropping random players into a pit fight and hoping things work out for the best. They need to add some organization to this chaos -- get better community/role-play (pre drop) interface in place. Let people meet, greet, and train with friends.

They seriously need to scale back these grandiose plans of community warfare and just start with something simple like a Solaris VII arena. Ranked matches, weight limits, etc. Start putting names in in a scrolling marquee and give people purpose.

Pada just defeated ShadowSpirit in ranked 1 on 1 combat!


1 vs 1
2 vs 2
4 vs 4

... save the 12 vs 12 matches for the planets and large factions. Get people vested at the group (guild) level.

Edits: To fix grammar and rambling.

Edited by ShadowSpirit, 28 August 2013 - 01:04 AM.

[Sean von Steinike]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 August 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

Yup.

Keep cheering for that bad press. You think PGI backpedalling, pulling 3PV and alienating newbies will be good press?

foolishness to the extreme.

Fortunately, bad press is better than no press, and most people will still try the game for themselves.

If indeed this is the MWO killer, at least we know that the blame isn't squarely on PGI's shoulders, but also on the whinos who couldnt see past their own small egos.

I for one hope PGI weathers this storm, I'd rather play mech than help to crush the only good mech we've had in 10 years.

Which is something that I feel the trolls obviously could care less about.

So, you will cheer when they put in gold ammo and no community warfare? And why shouldn't they when they obviously have people like you to back them up when they lie about things. Gold ammo and no community warfare would just be a continuation of their lies and changing design direction. Don't think it could happen? Yeah, I didn't think there would be coolant flush or being forced to play in a 3rdpv queue either.