14 replies to this topic

[Morquedeas]

So I am not really a new player, but I am returning after a long break and I needed some clarification. I recall there being some measures taken to fix the lagsheilds on light mechs a while ago, such as the HSR. However I now that I have returned and have been playing for a little bit it seems things are just as bad if not worse then when I left.

Originally you could damage lights by shooting into their lagsheild, (i.e. ahead of them) but I was sure the HSR removed the lagsheild. In some recent games I have played I have had some horrible times trying to kill lights. I will provide two anecdotes. The first time a Spider was running away from me with 0 back armor and red CT internals, I alpha'd him repeadetdly in the back, but to little affect. He was running straight away from me with little to no zig zagging and he was a slow spider so I was firing consitently into his back from about 100 meters. The other time a spider engaged me in a 1v1 circle of death, he entered the fight with a armorless yellow leg and most of my armor was mostly orange, by the time he cored me his leg that I had focused had barely turned orange.

For reference, I usually (and in these two situations) run a cataphract 1x with an AC of sorts backed up by 2 large and 3 medium lasers. Aiming is not an issue, I have little trouble keeping my lasers on a light mech as long as they are infront of me. I have also experienced similiarly damage resistant Jenners, Commandos, and Ravens.

I am hoping someone can shed light (ha) onto the nature of this issue, and help me proberly combat light mechs. Should I start aiming at the lagsheild again, or is hit registration just that bad?

[Lukoi Banacek]

What people called the lagshield was actually the lead time needed to hit the target. Either way you land the shot, it's armor coming off, not some mysterious shield.

That being said, HSR has improved somewhat but it's not awesome. HSR is applied to weapons groups, not classes of Mechs...meaning they've supposedly improved the ballistics or energy weapons registering their hits. Still, Spiders have known issues with wonky hitboxes that increase their survivability dramatically.

You might just need to get the feel back for the game in landing your shots, as it's definitely got a different feel than it had prior to HSR fixes.

Unfortunately...landing shots isn't perfected in MWO in terms of the game itself. I'm always sweeping the legs of lights to slow them down with a good old fashioned legging.

[TheCaptainJZ]

The general consensus is that, yes HSR has fixed the problem, but only partially. If you have higher pings, or constantly changing pings it doesn't seem to work well. I don't usually have problems myself, but I have low pings.

Spiders on the other hand...

They seem to have some sort of hitbox issue. Hopefully the devs will deal with it soon. For now, I suppose you could use lock-on missiles for attacking lights (probably not in a cataphract though)

[Vanguard319]

I would suggest having an LB-10X AC if you have the tonnage, The last patch tightened the spread, but it still does a pretty good job of nailing fast lights, just give your target some lead, and the mech should eat some buckshot. Streaks are also a decent choice, especially with the damage boost.

Edited by Vanguard319, 23 August 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Streaks are back to tearing up lights. I build some "Scraper" style Mechs..mediums designed to hang by assaults and discourage lights who try and wolfpack them and streaks really help those builds.

[Void Angel]

There are currently hit registration issues affecting all lights to some degree; there was an official poll mentioning this, although I can't find it right now. Essentially, the poll asked whether we wanted SRMs to be buffed temporarily while they fixed the issue, since it was causing damage against lights to be much lower than it should be. I've since talked to firsthand sources and seen myself that there are some annoying issues where you can plaster a 'mech and have the hits just get... lost. I have a neat screenshot on the testing grounds of my lasers shooting a Centurion dummy in the face at ~80m; they hit, cause weapon effects, do no damage, and continue invisibly past the 'mech to hit the hillside in the background. My theory is that they're deflecting through hyperspace.

The Spider, on the other hand, seems to benefit much more than other 'mechs from this phenomenon - to the point that it feels like a separate problem in its own right. It's not uncommon for Spiders to lose hits, or even spread damage from non-hitscan weapons. My buddy hit one with two ppcs, fired from the same hit location on his 'mech; all three of the Spider's torsos turned yellow. Sadly, this is one of the reasons we're seeing a bit of resurgence in the Spider population (the other being the buff to machine guns.) "It's in the game, so it's ok if I do it" is the usual justification - displaying developmental disabilities of the conscience, but I digress. But that's what you're dealing with on the Spider.

In general, though, lights just feel tougher when you use hitscan weapons like lasers, simply because they're really small and their hitboxes are close together. Focus on their legs to marginalize this advantage, and you'll have greater success in bringing them down.

Lukoi, on 23 August 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

What people called the lagshield was actually the lead time needed to hit the target. Either way you land the shot, it's armor coming off, not some mysterious shield.

That being said, HSR has improved somewhat but it's not awesome. HSR is applied to weapons groups, not classes of Mechs...meaning they've supposedly improved the ballistics or energy weapons registering their hits. Still, Spiders have known issues with wonky hitboxes that increase their survivability dramatically.

You might just need to get the feel back for the game in landing your shots, as it's definitely got a different feel than it had prior to HSR fixes.

Unfortunately...landing shots isn't perfected in MWO in terms of the game itself. I'm always sweeping the legs of lights to slow them down with a good old fashioned legging.

Eh, this is a somewhat inaccurate characterization of lag shields. The term "lag shield" came from the fact that if a sufficiently speedy 'mech was in motion, you could shoot at and hit its model, even causing explosions and hit effects, but the 'mech would take no damage. Every 'mech was affected, but it got relatively worse the higher up the speed scale you went. A light traveling at high speeds would require you to aim at an invisible ghost 'mech in front of the light, even with fracking laser beams - how far ahead depended on how fast the 'mech was traveling, and the sum of your latency. The only way to immediately tell if you were scoring hits was to watch and see if your reticle turned red.

HSR fixed that {Scrap}. Some people claim that it's still there a little bit, but it's negligible if so, and I suspect they may be actually experiencing the current hit registration issues and confusing the cause of their observations.

[Hammerfinn]

Yeah: spiders are bit borked ATM. I find LBX and SSRM are the only reliable way to land hits on spiders (and even then, they're probably losing some damage). The other lights, though, don't seem to be as problematic.

[Void Angel]

They're definitely losing damage - I poured a full ton of Streak ammo into a Spider recently (that's 250 damage worth, FYI; a spider only has ~265 total structure/armor) and still didn't kill him. A few of them did hit terrain, but not that many. And I'm not even counting the lasers I was using as well...

Still, this is a fixable issue, and it will be fixed - and until then I won't run my Spider.

Edited by Void Angel, 24 August 2013 - 02:19 AM.

[John Buford]

I am a Light Pilot and one thing that always gives me alot of trouble is when my opponent backs up to a TALL wall or type of terrain. It forces me to run infront of you and keeps your back safe. Just do make sure it is a TALL wall or I will just jump up on it and shoot you in the back.

[Wrex Hammerhead]

I run an Atlas with an AC/20, 4 MLs and 2 SRM6s. I basically just fire my lasers at lights while I work at getting my AC/20 aimed at them. I just aim slightly ahead of them and I make a lot of shots. After 2-3 direct hits the light mech either runs away or decides to stay and fight. Which at that point another AC/20 shot or two and they are gone. Though compared to a lot of these guys I don't have much expierence with MWO and such. Just seems having a heavy hitting round can really mess them up.

[mailin]

Yeah wrex, those AC20s really hurt when they hit. Relatively inexperienced light drivers are best advised to run away from anymech with an AC20 (or two), LB10X, ssrms or srms. Also, dual ppc and gauss builds are deadly when they alpha you in the face. The best way to avoid being killed by lights is to not separate from your team. If you do get separated try to get back to your team while letting them know that you need help. If all else fails, do as previously mentioned and back against a tall wall. If you do decide to fight a light, two warnings. 1) DO NOT CHASE them. They will try to lead you back to their teammates and you WILL have a bad match. 2) Be very, very careful about your heat. If you overheat a light can swoop in and quickly concentrate fire on a specific area of your mech before you can restart. I love headshotting mechs while they're powered down.

[Void Angel]

John Buford, on 25 August 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

I am a Light Pilot and one thing that always gives me alot of trouble is when my opponent backs up to a TALL wall or type of terrain. It forces me to run infront of you and keeps your back safe. Just do make sure it is a TALL wall or I will just jump up on it and shoot you in the back.

I actually laugh when they do that; if they're damaged enough, I'll just duck out and wait for them to move - if they're relatively unharmed, I'll take off and go kill someone else while they cower against the wall. Don't get locked into trying to kill that one guy. That's how lights make fools of stupid people who chase them all over creation while their main body rolls up the other half of the team. =)

[Gunnr75]

1. Don't be caught solo. Good light pilots will look for lone wolfs and pick them apart.

2. Don't be fooled into chasing a light. That will lead to #1

3. You are driving a heavy. Your job is to put damage down range, not be spinning circles trying to fend off a light. Let your teams lights and light killers do that.

4. If in a situation where you a squared off against a light in the circle of death try chain firing your lasers. Lights don't like to get hit - at all. Keep their damage display flashing. Lbx's are good as are streaks if the target isn't ecm'd.

[Icepick]

Put your back against something tall and wait for them to enter your firing arc. Circle fighting is the lights specialty, no need to make it easy for them.

Take chain shots at legs, keep your heat low.

Sooner or later they will make a mistake (like stuck on a building). Count one second, then alpha strike (keep heat low, wait for it...).

If it is a two on one, you are probably toast. Just try to keep one targeted, and hope that help arrives soon.

Edited by Icepick, 29 August 2013 - 09:52 AM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Yeah, it feels as if there is a real problem with the SDR chassis in game right now. I don't know a thing about the engine or this game's source code, so I won't try to wrangle big, impressive words here.

But just about anyone that's tried to take down a SDR chassis lately will agree that pouring 200 damage into a SDR that's already stripped of armor in the torsos SHOULD be deadly, and when it barely changes the color condition indicator for that mech, there's a problem.

Otherwise, I think the whole hit registration thing SEEMS improved. There's still some rubber banding going on, and that COULD maybe be a small part of it in some cases.

One thing I did notice is that when a SDR slows down, it seems to register hits just fine. For now, killing Spiders may require some tricky maneuvering on your part--drive it into a location where it'll have terrain slowing it down. This also gives you the opportunity to back-up to something, keeping the SDR out of your backside.

Also works against RVN, JR7, COM, and other quick chassis like them.