44 replies to this topic

[Rovertoo]

Just barely had this idea, but I think it's got some promise!

What if Clans are as overpowered as we all know and (sorta) love, but in order to balance them (instead with a somewhat arbitrary 12v10 or something like that, though I'm not discounting the idea exactly) they 'bid' their fights, as in the lore? If they had some kind of lobby system where either the matchmaker or the players would somehow bid to see what the least amount of mechs needed to combat the armament of the IS team would be, and go with that?
Possibly the incentive for the Clan team to take the least amount of mechs would be by their currency system, whatever it may be. Just make the rewards for winning a battle be immensely larger when the team is smaller, making it most profitable to choose the smallest team and tough it out versus just stomping them with a huge team.

If I've made my suggestion clear enough, what do you think? I'm sure the Devs already have their own plans in place, but perhaps they'd take my suggestion into some consideration?

Thanks!

[TungstenWall]

Forgive me Mech Warrior/Battletech Community!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3SYOvoPOEY#t=10m58s

though you could balance clans by forcing them to use 'Enhanced Imaging.' ~5min to win the match before Clan players spoon out their own eyes

Edited by TungstenWall, 01 August 2013 - 11:50 PM.

[Gregory Owen]

I think this is an excellent idea. I'm a pretty confident light pilot i'd love to be able to show off taking 2-3v1 and getting to set the weight class also.

[Dragonkindred]

It's a good idea when use with CW, clans against mercs or houses. But it won't work for the lone wolves.

I would suggest using a basic percentage of total IS weight, with the clans having 10 mechs to the IS having 12.
Perhaps 70% of IS tonnage. eg if the IS had 12 mechs with a total weight of 900 tonnes (avg 75 tonnes), then the clan unit could have 10 mechs with a total of 630 tonnes (avg 63 tonnes).

[WarGruf]

I'd like the Idea of bidding for the match but Clan mechs are handicapped as it is...
They Hit hard and Move fast, BUT usually pack less armor than IS counterparts making then more fragile to start with. Add that to 5 Vs 8 and I think it'd be a pretty close match as is.

[DI3T3R]

1. Two separate queues, one for Clan-Mechs, one for IS. (Never mix.) Clan-Mechs are outnumbered.

2. Force Clan-Warriors to adhere to Zellbrigen: Kill Assists (aka "meddling with someone else's duel") lead to an XP- and GXP-penalty, but don't reach negative numbers overall.


EDIT:
I think, a bidding-system is a bad idea.
1. It would eat up too much time per match.
2. One of the players would have to unilaterally bid others away.
3. You enter a match and then you aren't allowed to play and have to re-enter the queue.

Edited by DI3T3R, 05 August 2013 - 07:02 AM.

[Rascula]

WarGruf, on 03 August 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

I'd like the Idea of bidding for the match but Clan mechs are handicapped as it is...
They Hit hard and Move fast, BUT usually pack less armor than IS counterparts making then more fragile to start with. Add that to 5 Vs 8 and I think it'd be a pretty close match as is.

Im fairly sure this how they will handle it, more firepower, less armour. 10 v 8 games will feel really weird and balancing will be a nightmare, so playing up each sides strength will IMHO be the way PGI go.

[focuspark]

DI3T3R, on 05 August 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

1. Two separate queues, one for Clan-Mechs, one for IS. (Never mix.) Clan-Mechs are outnumbered.

2. Force Clan-Warriors to adhere to Zellbrigen: Kill Assists (aka "meddling with someone else's duel") lead to an XP- and GXP-penalty, but don't reach negative numbers overall.


EDIT:
I think, a bidding-system is a bad idea.
1. It would eat up too much time per match.
2. One of the players would have to unilaterally bid others away.
3. You enter a match and then you aren't allowed to play and have to re-enter the queue.

Was thinking around the same lines but it should be an honor penalty (Clan honor = IS C-bills) and it should allow going negative.

Rascula, on 05 August 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

Im fairly sure this how they will handle it, more firepower, less armour. 10 v 8 games will feel really weird and balancing will be a nightmare, so playing up each sides strength will IMHO be the way PGI go.

This is how IS and Clan roll though. IS use 4 mech "lances" and Clans use 5 mech "stars". 2 stars = 3 companies

[Gremlich Johns]

DI3T3R, on 05 August 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

2. Force Clan-Warriors to adhere to Zellbrigen: Kill Assists (aka "meddling with someone else's duel") lead to an XP- and GXP-penalty, but don't reach negative numbers overall.

As not all Clansmen observe Zellbrigen in the same fashion, it would be ignorant to expect someone to just bid (The Clansman) and then have the opponent (an IS or Merc surat) ignore the Honor done them. The Clans only needed to see what happened after "Well bid and done" was agreed upon and then ignored by the other party party. a bid Do you really think ALL Clans observe Zellbrigen the same?

This is not a good idea, but I do understand its appeal to someone who expects to get killed whenever faced by even a mediocre and dedicated Clansman in any class mech.

[Pinselborste]

clan tech should just get balanced, theres no reason to keep them as broken as in the TT game, unless PGI wants to have 90% clan and 10% IS players.

[Alex Warden]

clan mechs will be more balanced than you might think right away. IF PGI keeps the modular system of omnimechs for their design. our minmaxed IS powerboats will most likely be head to head with them, no problem.

In battletech they are only overpowered when compared IS stock vs. clan stock. if you create a tech2 IS mech from scratch and put it against a stock clan omni, the things look much different

iguess there´s only minor tweaking needed, that will need live testing.

IF PGI doesn´t and make them customizable as well...well then this game is gonna change alot - again

Thunderklaws, on 05 August 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

12 ER Medium Lasers. How much heat is that in an alpha?

that mech never was ment to alpha all its weapons.it´s been designed to be able to shoot in any situation, from most angles and even if it loses some weapons. 12 ermediums are not much hotter than 6 ppc´s btw. a thing that should also not be possible, but that´s offtopic

Edited by Alex Warden, 06 August 2013 - 02:58 AM.

[Bront]

5V8 and 10v12 might help, though 10v12 might not be enough. I do think that if the clan mechs are a bit more limited in customization, it might help. The biggest problem you're going to have is getting people to play IS mechs.

In TT, clans are balanced by reduced numbers, and no additional armor than their IS Counterparts, and of course some of the Honor system stuff. Enforcing the Honor system stuff won't work, because eventually folks will earn enough XP to ignore it because they don't care, and it's certainly hard to enforce in general anyway (think of how "meaningful" assists can be currently).

In MWO, I think limiting Clan vs IS to either specific encounters, a special vs queue with the above size limits, or perhaps not allowing made groups for Clans (Bad idea from an audience aspect). Possibly reducing the power of clan tech slightly as well. Other issues is how "ownership" of Clan mechs will work on an account. Will it be separate cbills? Will you earn "honor" to spend? Will you have limited customization options?

[DI3T3R]

We could use Clan-Mechs exclusively as Trial-Mechs (for starters): 4 Clan-Mechs and you are allowed to pick any configuration (no customization on them).

If you win this many battles (or earn this much XP or GXP or C-Bills or whatever) with a particular Clan-Mech (configs don't matter) then you gain a temporary option to buy it, but only as long as it's available as Trial-Mech.
(Making Clan-Mechs available all the time and in exchange for ordinary money is a bad idea.)

-> Would be good for business: "Buy now! You never know when it will be available again!"

[Alex Warden]

Bront, on 06 August 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

5V8 and 10v12 might help, though 10v12 might not be enough. I do think that if the clan mechs are a bit more limited in customization, it might help. The biggest problem you're going to have is getting people to play IS mechs.

In TT, clans are balanced by reduced numbers, and no additional armor than their IS Counterparts, and of course some of the Honor system stuff. Enforcing the Honor system stuff won't work, because eventually folks will earn enough XP to ignore it because they don't care, and it's certainly hard to enforce in general anyway (think of how "meaningful" assists can be currently).

In MWO, I think limiting Clan vs IS to either specific encounters, a special vs queue with the above size limits, or perhaps not allowing made groups for Clans (Bad idea from an audience aspect). Possibly reducing the power of clan tech slightly as well. Other issues is how "ownership" of Clan mechs will work on an account. Will it be separate cbills? Will you earn "honor" to spend? Will you have limited customization options?

clearly didnt read my post above yours

[Bront]

Alex Warden, on 06 August 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

clearly didnt read my post above yours

I did, I just like stating my opinion myself

[Anyone00]

Some things I can think of:mismatched
-As perviouly said keep it pure tech (at first and for a while) with Clans as a different faction that are mismatched in numbers
-Clan LRMs have a shallower flight path and clan mechs don't share targeting data without additional equipment
-Adjust rewards so IS player are more rewarded from winning and Clans more from personal glory (but that reward for personal glory goes bye-bye if a match is lost)... seems a bit contradictory now but something can be thought out (tired right now).
-I'm not sure how UI 2.0 will be set up but make it so IS player choose their mech then find out the map and are stuck with it (well until they get an IS omnimech) while Clans choose their mech, find out what map they are going on, then get to choose a one of several preset omnipod configurations they set out if they are bringing an omnimech.

[Imafighter]

Screw balance. If something is better, something is better. They developed their society around military and science, so of course they're going to be better. I don't see the point of balancing something that is supposed to have a distinct advantage over other technologies.

[DI3T3R]

Imafighter, on 08 August 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

I don't see the point of balancing something that is supposed to have a distinct advantage over other technologies.

If we don't balance it, players will only go for the cool clan-stuff. It will be like IS-warriors fighting with Clan-equipment and there's no challenge and no realism in that.

That's why we need several restrictions:
- A Clan-Mechwarrior cannot buy any Mechs he wants at any time he wants.
- Clan-Mechs always fight outnumbered.
- Clan-Warriors adhere to an honour-code that's totally disregarded right now: 1:1-duels whenever possible. (And don't even try that "Most clans have dropped Zelllbrigen"-argument. This is 3050. Any Clan-Mechwarrior breaking Zellbrigen would be in serious legal trouble.)

[Hotthedd]

DI3T3R, on 09 August 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

If we don't balance it, players will only go for the cool clan-stuff. It will be like IS-warriors fighting with Clan-equipment and there's no challenge and no realism in that.

That's why we need several restrictions:
- A Clan-Mechwarrior cannot buy any Mechs he wants at any time he wants.
- Clan-Mechs always fight outnumbered.
- Clan-Warriors adhere to an honour-code that's totally disregarded right now: 1:1-duels whenever possible. (And don't even try that "Most clans have dropped Zelllbrigen"-argument. This is 3050. Any Clan-Mechwarrior breaking Zellbrigen would be in serious legal trouble.)

As soon as a second I.S. mech attacks an engaged Clan Mech, any and all Clan Mechs may attack it without losing honor. Zellbrigen only applies as long as the opponent ALSO honors it.

[Khobai]

Unfortunately this idea is a bit complicated and very unlikely get implemented. However I would like to suggest a simpler idea that accomplishes much the same thing...

Instead of doing actual bidding at the start of a match, why not just reward clan players more for using cheaper mechs? So you get more honor at the end of the match if you dropped in a cheaper mech as opposed to a more expensive mech.