34 replies to this topic

[Escef]

I have one mech with single heat sinks. Gauss and 2 MLs, it doesn't need doubles.

[wolf74]

I have three mechs that I use that use SHS
COM-2D, AMS,BAP,ECM,TAG,NARC (CP3-O) roll spotter.

Spider 5k roll UrbanMech stand in std100engine, Ac10, Small Laser & jump jets

Altas RS 46total SHS. Not telling on weapons.

[Ecliptic]

I have exactly 1 build i like to roll around in as a giant 6 ML jenner.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5b402b9d5bf191b

And it's more heat-efficient than DHS to boot!

[Monky]

Getting rid of heat capacity for DHS and leaving it in for SHS and removing ghost heat fixes;

Single heat sinks being useless compared to DHS
High count PPC alphaing
High count Laser alphaing (not that this was really a problem but if they remove engine limitations the HBK-4P/AWS-8Q could become super lethal with big XL engines)

and makes heat management a skill you build for, need capacity? build a SHS boat so you can fire your 3/4PPC build without shutting down, but have to fall back to cover and wait some time to cool off. Need cooling? build a DHS boat so you can fire fewer weapons repeatedly and brawl effectively.

Done and done.

[Khobai]

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Sounds awfully selfish, don't you think?

Absolutely selfish. But I dont play this game for other peoples gratification. I play it for my own

[operator0]

Chemie is right though, before doubles were implemented, we had a much larger cross section of weapon load outs. Perhaps, if the engine doubles were dropped to 1.4 (from 2.0) that may change the meta back to some semblance of what it was before, and give SHS a place. I don't know, DHS are part of BT lore and it would feel weird playing a MW game without doubles. But, it just might change the meta for the better.

Anyway, I'm not totally convinced that's a good direction to go, just throwing ideas out there.

[Nema Nabojiv]

operator0, on 25 August 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Perhaps, if the engine doubles were dropped to 1.4 (from 2.0) that may change the meta back to some semblance of what it was before, and give SHS a place.

They'd still be 40% more effective than SHS so still no reason to use shs.
IF there were no heatsinks in engine, then shs could be an option. But that would require building balance from scratch again, so no chance we see it I guess

[Accursed Richards]

Khobai, on 24 August 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

SHS should be outright worse than DHS because DHS cost 2 million to upgrade to. It would be really unfair to players who have already spent tens of millions upgrading all their mechs to DHS to suddenly have SHS be a viable alternative. Unless of course you want to refund all those cbills.

That said, I do think SHS could use a buff in order to help out trial mechs, but SHS should never be better than DHS.

But if SHS aren't viable for anything except maybe dual gauss builds, why do they exist? It means DHS are effectively a 1.5m surcharge for nearly all mechs, which only annoys people who get their great new mech, then realise they have to grind some more to actually be able to compete with it.

[Khobai]

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But if SHS aren't viable for anything except maybe dual gauss builds, why do they exist?

They shouldnt exist. IMO PGI should just remove SHS, tack 1.5M onto the cost of all mechs, and all mechs should start with DHS.

[Wolfways]

Khobai, on 25 August 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

They shouldnt exist. IMO PGI should just remove SHS, tack 1.5M onto the cost of all mechs, and all mechs should start with DHS.

Imo they should be viable. Mechs with weapons that generate little heat should have no need to upgrade to DHS. That would be the benefit, no need to shell out 1.5million C-Bills.
But PGI seem to have this notion that unless every mech is melting half way through a battle that it runs too cool.
Besides, some mechs probably couldn't come with DHS as standard as just to make some stock mechs viable for MWO you have to reduce the weight by replacing weapons with smaller ones, or adding Endo/ferro to get more ammo, and add DHS.

[Khobai]

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Mechs with weapons that generate little heat should have no need to upgrade to DHS.

Unless youre playing dual gauss youre going to generate enough heat to want DHS.

[Wolfways]

Khobai, on 26 August 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

Unless youre playing dual gauss youre going to generate enough heat to want DHS.

Yes because of PGI's terrible heat system. Stock mechs are supposed to be viable. It's only in MWO that they aren't.

[MustrumRidcully]

Wolfways, on 26 August 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

Yes because of PGI's terrible heat system. Stock mechs are supposed to be viable. It's only in MWO that they aren't.

Stock Mechs in the table top can be quite heat efficient, even though many use only single heat sinks.
Mechs with double heat sinks could field better and more powerful weapons then single heat sink mechs.

In MW:O, it's basically that stock mechs are all terribly heat inefficient and you need DHS to make a SHS-type build viable.

Basically, in TT, standard sink mechs can be fun mechs without any big heat issues. Double heat sinks enable more powerful builds with similar heat efficiency.
In MW:O, single heat sinks make your mech bad and unfun and double heat sinks are required.


They really shouldn't have picked 3050 as starting point for their game.
3025 tech could probably be more easily balanced, and 3075 maybe, too, when all that ancient 3025 tech level is outdated and almost never fielded anymore.

But they had to pick the era that is, balance-wise, the most challenging to implement, with a team that is either not experienced, large or competent enough to actually achieve this. In a Player vs Player game, where it's all about competitition and min/maxing is required if you want to be competitive, hence game balance being one of the highest priority items.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 26 August 2013 - 03:37 AM.

[Khobai]

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Stock Mechs in the table top can be quite heat efficient, even though many use only single heat sinks.

Well the stock Awesome-8Q is the classic example. It has 28 single heatsinks and should be able to fire 3 PPCs nonstop and barely generate any heat.

But in MWO, with 3 PPCs, it overheats in under 10 seconds.

[DegeneratePervert]

wolf74, on 24 August 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

I have three mechs that I use that use SHS
COM-2D, AMS,BAP,ECM,TAG,NARC (CP3-O) roll spotter.

Spider 5k roll UrbanMech stand in std100engine, Ac10, Small Laser & jump jets

Altas RS 46total SHS. Not telling on weapons.

2spooky

10/10 build, am shaking in boots.

Single heatsinks are worthless.

EDIT:

With DHS...

2superspooky

Edited by DegeneratePervert, 26 August 2013 - 06:00 AM.