43 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Devils Advocate, on 26 August 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

Once again it's worth noting the community was lobbying for a charge time on Gauss Rifles for the last 18 months.

Yes, a few members where, and a lot of us were always against it.

Congrats are in order, what was their trick, I want to apply it for fixing the heat system.

Maybe it's one of these things where PGI looks for plarity. "Hey, if 50 % of the posters say it's a horrible idea, and 50 % want it, then we should do it!"

Quote

The Gauss rifle is the most powerful weapon in the game right now and having to line up a shot for less than a second before firing is not the end of the weapon. It'll just be a little obnoxious for assaults that want everything bound to one mouse button.

My dual Gauss rifle Jager carries 90 rounds on it and averages more than 500 damage per round because of how ridiculous Gauss rifles are. I don't expect that damage to come down at all with a charge time included.

The Gauss Rifle is also the heaviest weapon in the game. No single weapon weighs as much. The next lighter weapon deals more damage per shot and more DPS at ranges of up to ~340m.
The Gauss also has the least hit point and it explodes with a 90 % chance when these hit points are gone, while regular ammo has only a 10 % chance to explode and a full 10 hit points.

A weapon being powerful is not a problem. A weapon being overpowered is. Is it overpowered?

[Sprouticus]

mwhighlander, on 25 August 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

It may have something to do with PGI not having a clue what they're doing.

Meanwhile, the actual solution is to have brawler weapons on par or just as good as sniper weapons.

Oh wait, LBX sucks, SRMs hit reg is unreliable, ERPPC is actually the best energy brawling weapons and Large/Medium lasers are ghost heat nerfed.

Yep, priorities. If PGI can't make bad weapons good, then they'll simply make all the good weapons piles of shet! Genius!

(This coming from a guy who doesn't even use Gauss)

Disagree on multiple points

1) The gauss in not like the bobbast laser. The BL did not have an option to hold the charge. You HAD to shoot it immediately at max charge or it reset

2) LBX is actually a pretty dan good weapon right now. On par with the AC20 IMO. I ran an lbx/Ac20 jagger this weekend as well as a 2 lbx20 jagger. Both were netting a LOT of damage and kills.

3) Medium lasers are not ghost heat nerfed except for a couple of builds, and even those builds(1BJ-1X and hunchie 4P) run really well staggering 6/2 or 6/3.

4) In the last post on ghost heat, PGI explained (indirectly) why LL's have a limit of 2. Clan versions. The clan ERLL is EXTREMELY potent, and they will need ghost heat or clan ERLL boats will rip up the battlefield. Same with LRM's, AC2's, etc.I am not a fan of ghost heat, but with that long term idea in mind I understand their thinking.


As for the gauss change, we shall see. It might break the gauss. It might make the gauss a sniper only weapon (how often do you REALLY snap shot at long range, honestly. How often do you not have 0.75s to line up your shot?). It might make ZERO difference and PPc/gauss will still rule the field.

Until it is implemented, none of us will know for sure.

[DegeneratePervert]

If they add charge time, they should remove the explosive nature of the weapon, or at least increase the health of it. Even now, when I see a gauss boat, I don't really fear it... the name of the game is to shoot the gauss rifles, they'll explode! This kills the gauss K2, the Gauss Jager, the Misery (usually), and any Atlas dumb enough to have one of those things strapped to his chest.

PGI needs to take a step back and really ask themselves, "What is the problem here? Gauss isn't a good brawling weapon usually, because smarter players in higher ELO brackets just target the rifle (which a stiff breeze can make 'splode). No, the problem here is the PPC; it needs the charge time, not Gauss. It makes more sense for the PPC to have a charge time, anyway."

[Bhael Fire]

mwhighlander, on 25 August 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

RIP Gauss

So sad. Struck down in its youth, before it even got to see launch day.

[Khobai]

Quote

Once again it's worth noting the community was lobbying for a charge time on Gauss Rifles for the last 18 months.

A couple people were lobbying for it. Fortunately most of us have the sense to know its a bad idea. Charge-up is not a fun mechanic in ANY game.

[Lord Perversor]

DegeneratePervert, on 26 August 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

If they add charge time, they should remove the explosive nature of the weapon, or at least increase the health of it. Even now, when I see a gauss boat, I don't really fear it... the name of the game is to shoot the gauss rifles, they'll explode! This kills the gauss K2, the Gauss Jager, the Misery (usually), and any Atlas dumb enough to have one of those things strapped to his chest.

PGI needs to take a step back and really ask themselves, "What is the problem here? Gauss isn't a good brawling weapon usually, because smarter players in higher ELO brackets just target the rifle (which a stiff breeze can make 'splode). No, the problem here is the PPC; it needs the charge time, not Gauss. It makes more sense for the PPC to have a charge time, anyway."

Well they said that the Gauss Health will be raised when they implement the charge up mechanic. So while still exploding it will take a bit more dmg to happen.

As someone else has been pointing in other threads, this *fix* it's for upcoming Heavy and Assault chassis with the ability to easily mount at least 2x Gauss+ PPC.

those chassis will be able to fire non-stop the 2x Gauss and the PPC, and if they risk to overheat just stop firing the PPC while still be able to pull 30 points of dmg. (and dual Gauss it's not a bad combo just alone)
Now imagine an Assault chassis able to mount 2x Gauss and 2 PPC, Hell there is an Annihilator variant with 3x Gauss+ ERPPC now imagine that Annihilator with 2x Gauss and 3x PPC?(2PPC 14 tons 1x Gauss 15 tons and 1 spare for HS!!! 60 point alpha and if risk to overheat it can cut it's dmg in half without risking anything since the Gauss have no drawbacks.

[Fyrerock]

Left hand people are going to have trouble with this, because they are limited when it comes to the type of controllers they can use like the mouse for a left hand person is going to be a two button mouse for the most part. When you are limited to only a few buttons you need to tie the long range weapons together, and with all the new rules it is starting to become harder and harder for a left handed person to play this game.

[Skalpel]

I pilot my Dragon almost every match. The 1C with 4 mlasers and 1 gauss. I use it both for sniping when closing for engagement, when flanking and for brawling. I could say I am good with it. When I read the news about the "nerf" I wasnt bothered. I think I'll get used to it. Like I was used to it before the HSR when there was a fireing delay. I actually find the idea interesting And more health for it will be a good thing.


Just my 2 cents

[3rdworld]

Lets represent the Gauss's min range:

by adding a charge time.

Lets nerf how powerful the Gauss + PPC combo is:

by buffing poptarts.

This is really one of the dumbest fixes I have ever heard proposed. It speaks volumes to Paul's ineptitude.

Edited by 3rdworld, 26 August 2013 - 06:35 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

It seems like it would make more sense to charge the PPC/ERPPC than the Gauss, but...eh.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

I'm on the fence with this gauss "fix." While the explodey factor of the gauss seemed like a band-aid fix, idk if charge up time is the right fix. Desyncing ppcs and gauss, that's nice, whatever, but the problem really is PPCs. Give them more heat, that might fix them. Give them the chargeup mechanic, might fix them. Totally revamp the heat system and send ghost heat the way of the ghost, that might fix some things. Idk.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I fear the loss of my absolute favorite mech, the 4ML 1gauss Flame I love striking and flanking, but that gauss change is gonna turn it into a sniper weapon that won't fit my quick-snap, pot-shot taking playstyle. Only time will tell. Buff the range and ammo of the ac10, maybe that'll help my fears

[Tezcatli]

xenoglyph, on 26 August 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure you just agreed with me.

That's because I don't see anything wrong with a learning curve. So do agree with you, but not that it's a bad thing.

[oldradagast]

Ah, the hilarity!

Adding a charge time to the Gauss will make it harder to use in a pitched battle... so, the best option is to reduce your movement speed and aim at slower moving targets so the effects of the shot NOT FIRING WHEN IT SHOULD thanks to the charge time lunacy will be reduced. In other words, this change still favors snipers, who have more time to plan for delays in firing when shooting at slow-moving targets, and punishes brawlers who really need a gun to fire when the blasted trigger is pulled. Yeah, I know that you're not supposed to brawl with a Gauss rifle, but the point is that the brawl gets to you eventually and this weapon is badly gimped in a brawl if it fires with a delay.

It's a good thing nothing else in this game favors snipers... oh, wait...

So, yeah... it'll desync with the PPC, but become nearly worthless in close-in battles, making the game still favor snipers. Great move?!

Edited by oldradagast, 26 August 2013 - 08:24 AM.

[LeShadow]

Devils Advocate, on 26 August 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

Once again it's worth noting the community was lobbying for a charge time on Gauss Rifles for the last 18 months. The Gauss rifle is the most powerful weapon in the game right now and having to line up a shot for less than a second before firing is not the end of the weapon. It'll just be a little obnoxious for assaults that want everything bound to one mouse button.

I'd say it'll mostly be "a little" obnoxious for people like me who start running out of firing groups. After the Ghost Heat patch, I've merged my various Misery designs into one: 2 PPC, Gauss, CT LL, 2 ML. I run it with 5 different firing groups. Would prefer another 2 for left and right arms to shoot from lateral cover, but even if the 6 group limit was expanded, at some point you simply run out of buttons.

Like Ghost Heat before, this will probably hurt the varied builds more than the 1-click wonders. Going from one button to two is easy. If you're too lazy to just re-sync the guns with a macro, that is. But the way it's now, even stagger firing 3+ LL plus a ballistic/PPC simply takes too long to be viable. Now they want to add another delay on top of everything? At that point you're probably better off going back to quad PPC. That's guaranteed to work with two buttons. One if you use a macro.

Now, I - personally - look forward to this. It'll be something new to try. After a few minutes I'll get the hang of it... or switch to another setup. But either way I'll be stomping over the smouldering wrecks of all the poor souls who only own a 3-button Logitech and never wrote a script in their life.

[L1f3H4ck]

It makes no sense. The Gauss Rifle blows up when destroyed because it is CHARGED ALL THE TIME!!!

[Hillslam]

We had charge up time in the closed beta. It was called server side firing delay. And it sucked a$$.

[MustrumRidcully]

LeShadow, on 26 August 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

I'd say it'll mostly be "a little" obnoxious for people like me who start running out of firing groups. After the Ghost Heat patch, I've merged my various Misery designs into one: 2 PPC, Gauss, CT LL, 2 ML. I run it with 5 different firing groups. Would prefer another 2 for left and right arms to shoot from lateral cover, but even if the 6 group limit was expanded, at some point you simply run out of buttons.

Like Ghost Heat before, this will probably hurt the varied builds more than the 1-click wonders. Going from one button to two is easy. If you're too lazy to just re-sync the guns with a macro, that is. But the way it's now, even stagger firing 3+ LL plus a ballistic/PPC simply takes too long to be viable. Now they want to add another delay on top of everything? At that point you're probably better off going back to quad PPC. That's guaranteed to work with two buttons. One if you use a macro.

Now, I - personally - look forward to this. It'll be something new to try. After a few minutes I'll get the hang of it... or switch to another setup. But either way I'll be stomping over the smouldering wrecks of all the poor souls who only own a 3-button Logitech and never wrote a script in their life.

Yup, that is pretty much a big problem.

The more complicated you make a weapon to use, the harder it will be to be used in conjunction with other weapons.

A charge-up weapon might be okay if it was your only weapon, but you're like to have 1-3 more.

I think the difficulty of using certain weapons - or rather, the difference in how to use them - is one other reason why people prefer to boat LRMs. It's not just AMS, imbalances and what not. it's also that LRMs behave completely different from any other weapon, and this just gets in the way of things.

That is a certain "ergnomic" aspect of gameplay, that also affects game balance.

[GODzillaGSPB]

xenoglyph, on 25 August 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

My thoughts: Remove the extended range of all weapons, add minimum range to Gauss.

That's the thing: If this was about nerfing the gauss for close combat, like PGI claims it it, the min-range would be most simple, the most logic and the most effective solution. Why don't they take it? Because the reason is a lie. Why do they need these fake constructs to sell their changes? I don't know.

[L1f3H4ck]

Devils Advocate, on 26 August 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

Once again it's worth noting the community was lobbying for a charge time on Gauss Rifles for the last 18 months. The Gauss rifle is the most powerful weapon in the game right now and having to line up a shot for less than a second before firing is not the end of the weapon. It'll just be a little obnoxious for assaults that want everything bound to one mouse button.

My dual Gauss rifle Jager carries 90 rounds on it and averages more than 500 damage per round because of how ridiculous Gauss rifles are. I don't expect that damage to come down at all with a charge time included.

The Gauss is supposed to be the most powerfull Inner Sphere weapon, and it is the only gun that puts them on somewhat equal footing vs. The Clans. Oh, It's that TT-nerd talking, whatever... Just wait. Wait until there's Clan LRMs and Clan ERPPCs and Clan everything pretty much. So thanks for all the QQ. You wanted it, now you'll have it. Our (IS) only cool thing gets the oh-so-needed nerf.

[Khobai]

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The Gauss rifle is the most powerful weapon in the game right

Thats your opinion. Personally I think the ERPPC is the most powerful weapon in the game right now. Given that it has longer range, faster projectile speed, doesnt use ammo, doesnt explode, weighs half as much, and uses a fraction of the crits.