13 replies to this topic

[Dano_man]

First thanks for responding and all help is appreciated. I am still new to this even though I am getting better. I am normally playing mediums and a heavy from time to time, but want to know the essentials of scouting as I do now have a Jenner. I know it is bloody fast and I get that you want to find the enemy, but after you see them how do you get credit for spotting them? I don't seem to ever get this. Do you have to lock on to each of them? Obviously I don't want to run into the hornets nest stir the pot and die....but I do want to be a contributing team member. That being said give me the lowdown on being a good scout.

[scJazz]

You have a slight misunderstanding.

The bonus is not for seeing the target. It is for LOCKING the target and then a teammate fires LRMs at it in indirect mode. You can see the target and have it locked. The shooter can not see it and is using your lock.

I just finished a game where I got 14 spotting assists!!!

I was going to write a short version of being a scout but there isn't one really.

1 ) LOCK TARGETS!
2 ) When you find the enemies main body... cycle targets fast by holding down the Lock key. This generates that ding ding ding ding audible warning that you hear sometimes while playing.
3 ) If you find another light mech it is your job to kill it
4 ) DO NOT slam down the throttle and go tearassing into the distance the moment the game starts
5 ) If it is a Conquest game... go capture the nearest point. Then check things out. Heading back to the main force to help them deal with lights might be desirable. Whatever, stop and think, heading off to the next CAP might not be the best choice.
6 ) DO NOT immediately do the base rush in an Assault game. Wait for the main fight to start then do the base rush if you are trying to confuse your enemy!
7 ) Most of the time Flanking means cutting yourself off from any support while exposing yourself to the enemy team!
8 ) Remember that during the opening moments of the game YOU will be closer to the enemy than you are to your own team! Locking a target expecting LRMs to rain out of the sky is unlikely at best during the beginning of a match!
9 ) Never stop moving
10 ) DO NOT Hold your lock for LRMs if you are getting shot at
11 ) Driving through the middle of the enemy pack is only desirable if you are going to use a UAV!

I'm sure others can think of more

[Darwins Dog]

The spotting assist is actually for when you have the target locked and someone else shoots LRMs at them using your target info.

To be an effective scout you need to learn the common routes on each map (there's usually only about 3 on any map) and just take a peek at them early in the game. Try to get an idea of where they are coming from, and relay that to the team. Keep your messages clear and concise. "5 coming from 3 line", or "6+ in F5" something like that. Try to use actual numbers and grid coordinates whenever you can. If there are major landmarks on the map (like the ship in forest colony, or the ring in tourmaline) they work as well, as long as people can easily identify them.

Don't bother shooting at them as that will only give away your position, and be ready to run back to your friends as a moment's notice. Run before they engage you, since they will make short work of your rear armor.

The last thing I would recommend is to announce where you are scouting from the start. Just say "scouting left" or something. If you don't you will have people following you wherever you go.

[DEMAX51]

Ok, so that's actually a pretty huge question, but I'll give you some basic tips:

1. The Jenner is a great Light mech, but it's not an ideal scout. You certainly CAN scout with it, but there are better 'Mechs for that role, such as the Raven 3L or Spider 5D (which both have ECM). Jenners are more suited to be strikers for flanking heavy/assault 'Mechs and ripping up their rear armor (the -F with 5 or 6 medium lasers is great in this role), or as Light-hunters (the -D outfitted with streaks and small pulse lasers is beastly against other lights).

For more tips tailored specifically for Jenner piloting, I highly recommend you check out this thread: Dear, New Jenner Pilots

Now, regarding scouting specifically and your questions:

To be perfectly honest, the scouting role isn't as important in PUG matches as it is if you were to drop with a pre-made team on voice-comms (I recommend you download TeamSpeak - a free VOIP program many units use - and check out the Hiring Hall forums to find a group to play with. Shameless plug: the Ghost Warriors Brigade is always looking for people.) You'll notice a huge difference when playing in a group compared to PUG matches, and scouting is much much easier when you can talk instead of having to type.

You only get spotting assists when you're the first person to have targeted an enemy (press R), and one of your teammates shoots them. You can also get a TAG/NARC assist by lasing a target with a TAG or shooting it with a NARC and then having a teammate shoot that enemy with LRMs. Just an FYI - spotting assists aren't going to net you a ton of experience.

Otherwise, just do your best to put yourself in a position where you can see enemy movement without exposing yourself to fire. Third-person view can help you do this, as you can see over and around terrain without exposing your 'Mech at all. Just be sure to communicate what you see to your teammates, such as number of enemies, where they're heading, and 'Mech type.

To clarify some misconceptions I've seen in the above responses: Spotting assists are not only awarded for LRM fire, but for any type of weapon. TAG/NARC bonuses are limited to LRM fire.

Edited by DEMAX51, 26 August 2013 - 09:21 AM.

[Macbrea]

I have discovered I like moving to somewhat sheltered spot then locking each target and firing my TAG at them. It seems to give me the most assists. Most players don't like TAG because it takes up an Energy slot, but, I guess being a scout and not a skirmisher is lost on some.

[Fatebringer]

I think the light fighters manual is very clear on one thing, movement + knowing your surroundings = life. It took me a while to get used to the maps using the trial Cicada and Raven, but once I did the possibilities opened up, but still they didn't have what I was looking for overall.

The Raven didn't have the speed or heat sinks to do what I wanted it to do so I learned to became an excellent sniper, using the speed it did have to flank around and get into places that I knew had good sight lines and once I drew attention, I would move.

Likewise, the Cicada likewise just lacked the firepower and armor to make it more than an a minor annoyance in my hands. I found myself trying to spot more and help cap things than get into the fighting because I knew how fragile I was for a “Medium Mech”

But, my time in game with the Trial mechs paid off recently when I got my first non-trial Mech on Friday, Sarah's Jenner. I have to say the differences between it and the trial mechs I've been using is phenomenal. They said a bought Mech would be different, but I had no idea.

The Jenner has the speed and firepower I crave when I don’t have access to a fire support Mech with range that can hit consistently (I hate sitting around and being part of the slug matches that Heavy and Assaults wind up getting in.) When I got the Jenner, knowing the places to run through and terrain to hide behind made a huge difference. I finally have a Mech that had a heat to damage ratio that allows me the right amount of time to do some damage and then run away to cool off, KNOWING I did some significant damage, because I was able to get in close to see my targets really well.

Now, knowing your surroundings isn't just knowing your terrain and buildings around you. It’s knowing the mission and what else is on your team. Learning the designation codes of the other units you have on your side of the game and knowing the set up really make a difference.

If you look at your team list and don’t see a few assaults on there, your team won’t last long in a stand up fight so hitting up Theta in a resource battle isn't a good idea, capping the back base might be better.

On the plus side, if you see a couple other light mechs heading off in the same direction, you are in luck. FOLLOW THEM, stick with the group and Pack Hunt. One Jenner is a great striker, a pack of 3 or more can put a serious hurt on any Mech in no time at all, but shouldn't be hitting a Heavy / Assault line of Mechs because while you pick on one, his friends will pick you apart.

[L Y N X]

scJazz, on 26 August 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

You have a slight misunderstanding.

The bonus is not for seeing the target. It is for LOCKING the target and then a teammate fires LRMs at it in indirect mode. You can see the target and have it locked. The shooter can not see it and is using your lock.

I just finished a game where I got 14 spotting assists!!!

I was going to write a short version of being a scout but there isn't one really.

1 ) LOCK TARGETS!
2 ) When you find the enemies main body... cycle targets fast by holding down the Lock key. This generates that ding ding ding ding audible warning that you hear sometimes while playing.
3 ) If you find another light mech it is your job to kill it
4 ) DO NOT slam down the throttle and go tearassing into the distance the moment the game starts
5 ) If it is a Conquest game... go capture the nearest point. Then check things out. Heading back to the main force to help them deal with lights might be desirable. Whatever, stop and think, heading off to the next CAP might not be the best choice.
6 ) DO NOT immediately do the base rush in an Assault game. Wait for the main fight to start then do the base rush if you are trying to confuse your enemy!
7 ) Most of the time Flanking means cutting yourself off from any support while exposing yourself to the enemy team!
8 ) Remember that during the opening moments of the game YOU will be closer to the enemy than you are to your own team! Locking a target expecting LRMs to rain out of the sky is unlikely at best during the beginning of a match!
9 ) Never stop moving
10 ) DO NOT Hold your lock for LRMs if you are getting shot at
11 ) Driving through the middle of the enemy pack is only desirable if you are going to use a UAV!

I'm sure others can think of more

I like this but # 7) is wrong, I think I understand what you mean but the way you stated it is very , very wrong.

Here is the basic concept of what flanking is...(there are so so many palayers who say they are flanking who have no idea what it really means and do as you state, while I do not think what you stated is really what you meant)

X - Enemy mech
O - Friendly mech

-----XX--XXX-XXX-X---
----------------------------
---OOO--OOOOO---O-O

The 3 O's on the left make up the left flank, the next O's are the main front line or center, and the 2 O's on the right are the right flank.

Flanking looks like this where one flank hits the enemy from the side(flank) and/or rear(flank):

-----XX--XXX-XXX-X-----O-
---------------------------O-
---OOO--OOOOO---

or

----------------O--O
-------------------------O
-----XX--XXX-XXX-X---
----------------------------
---OOO--OOOO------


Hope this helps others as well...

Edited by 7ynx, 26 August 2013 - 10:47 AM.

[Unnatural Growth]

Lots of good stuff so far. My first mech was a Jenner. Mostly for nostalgia reasons and the old MW1 MW2 days. Jenners are great fun to pilot, and yes they are twitchy and fast.

For starters, you don't really say what your build is? If it's the Sarah Jenner, it's already got some great hardware on it.

My personal builds all had between 2 and 4 Jump Jets, 4 Med Lasers, XL300 engines, 2 SRM 2's (on the -D variant), Endo Steel and FF armor. The Jenner really comes alive with the XL300 and the basic and elite skill unlocks.

For Jenners specifically, run them fast, do not directly engage the enemy, learn to "JJ turn" while evading fire. and never, ever run straight at or straight away from the enemy. Put the biggest engine you can (XL300), as speed is your best armor. A slow Jenner is a dead Jenner.

Scouting is one of those (usually) thankless jobs that can either help or hurt a team. Good scouting can give an organized team the win. The best scout cannot help an unorganized team. I've seen both while PUG'ing.

I only play Assault Mode, so this "advice" is only for Assault.

You will have to develop you're own playstyle as a scout. Not all scouts do it the same way, and that isn't really a bad thing.

For instance,

PHASE 1 of scouting:

I do take off at full speed right from the drop. I want to get as far across the map as possible, towards the enemy lines of travel as I can, as quickly as I can. I circumvent the map at it's widest perimeter normally. Your team needs to know which lanes of travel the enemy is taking, and whether they are split, turtled up tight, camping their base, or rushing yours.

You don't need to get target lock for this phase.

Use team chat to tell your team with GRID NUMBERS, none of this "2 at Theta" {Scrap}, because most newer players have no idea where "Theta" is. But, "Three enemy heavies B3", "2 Atlas at F5", "2 Spiders headed to base along the F line", "main force all on G4 sitting in the bowl", is what they need to hear.

PHASE 2

Your team has not yet fully engaged the enemy, but are moving into position.

Now you've laid out the movements of the enemy units, it's time to make yourself useful once again. This will depend on your situation, as each match can be different. If the enemy formation is turtled up tight, and you've done your job of getting around behind them unnoticed, now it's time to start locking targets for your LRM boats. Start with the more important targets first, like the Assault mechs. Targeting an Atlas is better for your team than targeting a Blackjack. If no assault mechs are in target range, then second would be enemy LRM boats. Then down to heavies, then med's, etc.

I do NOT run TAG, and don't recommend it for light scouts. You have to be within 750 meters to "hit" them with it, and you have to hold relatively still. At the same time your are pointing a laser pointer at an enemy mech that really doesn't WANT a laser pointer pointed at him. Sooner or later, you'll get noticed, and they'll visually follow that red light back to it's owner, you. At 750 meters or less, you are in range of a LOT of weapons. Bad things will happen to you pretty quickly after that.

If you have enemy lights headed to your base to cap rush, and you are the only light, it is your job to go intercept. Hopefully you will get some help from fast mediums or (I wish) other lights on your team. If you run into a full on lance or enemy formation when you get to base, break off to call for help BEFORE you engage them. It will take your slower team mates time to get to you, so the SOONER the call for help goes out, the better your chances are.

PHASE 3

The main forces of the 2 teams are now joined in battle and fully committed.

Now is when you change roles to become a "harasser". Your job now is to cause as much disruption as possible within the enemy ranks. Come around to their rear and run full speed towards their rear units. This is usually where the LRM boats and snipers hang out, and your job is to disrupt their concentration by hitting each one quickly as you fly by. Remeber, these cowards are shooting at YOUR team mates. Make a big circle pass at full speed. Fly in, hit a few, and fly back out without dropping your speed.

This often creates pandemonium as the enemy team will turn and fire wildly at you, often hitting each other in the process. You will get kill assists for every enemy you hit, that later gets killed by a bigger team mate. Do NOT make the mistake of staying in there and brawling. You are not a brawler. A brawling Jenner is a dead Jenner. Hit and run tactics. You are there to disrupt their "plan". Find cover, turn and line up your next pass through the enemy formation.

If you have big "brass ones", one of the most dangerous tactics you can use, is to launch a UAV. To properly do it, you must chat your team first to make sure your LRM boats are ready, then you literally have to run straight through the middle of the enemy formation. I recommend starting your run from their rear, run full speed through their line, and launch your UAV right as you hit their center point. You will light up every enemy mech in a 250 meter radius, whether they have ECM or not, whether they are powered down or not. Your LRM boats can now "bring the rain", and you will get spotting credits for every one they hit. Once again, this is highly dangerous for you, but it is an absolute joy to behold when done correctly. Most effective if the enemy is tightly formed together.

Your last, but not least responsibility is to help your team drive away enemy lights. If you see, or hear one of your team mates getting attacked by one or more enemy lights, you need to get in there and help drive them away. Get right up on top of them and put as many hits on them as you can. Lights love to swarm heavies and assaults, but lights DON'T like to be attacked by other lights.

If your team is in good shape, no one is calling for aide, you can try and pick off any stragglers that you see. Find an enemy heavy or assault that foolishly wandered off by itself and stay behind them and keep firing at them until you core them out. This takes time, unless they're already stripped of armor, so your time may be better spent elsewhere, unless you're just keeping them occupied until larger help arrives.

Those are my tactics, I hope they help you somewhat.

[scJazz]

7ynx, on 26 August 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

I like this but # 7) is wrong, I think I understand what you mean but the way you stated it is very , very wrong.

Here is the basic concept of what flanking is...(there are so so many palayers who say they are flanking who have no idea what it really means and do as you state, while I do not think what you stated is really what you meant)

Hope this helps others as well...

Thank you for helping clear things up!

Since I was doing a short list I didn't have space to include what you just wrote.

From the context of my statement...
NOTE: I only play PUG games which adds even more context.

Quote

7 ) Most of the time Flanking means cutting yourself off from any support while exposing yourself to the enemy team!

Far too frequently I see a Light Mech announce (or not) that they are flanking. They take off at ludicrous speed, head toward the edge of the map....

Wait!

OldOrgandonor, on 26 August 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Lots of good stuff so far. My first mech was a Jenner. Mostly for nostalgia reasons and the old MW1 MW2 days. Jenners are great fun to pilot, and yes they are twitchy and fast.

Those are my tactics, I hope they help you somewhat.

OldOrgandonor just added all the paragraphs where I was doing bullet points and explained it all rather perfectly!

[Lostdragon]

The Jenner is my favorite mech so far, but I don't scout much with it unless I am the only light. Like has already been mentioned, the Jenner is a striker.

The key to being successful (in my opinion) is to never fight unless you have the advantage. The primary advantages you can have are surprise, terrain, and numbers. If you only have one of these your goal should be to get at least one more. Make the enemy chase you into favorable terrain or into your team. Slip away then come back and surprise them from a direction they don't expect.

Support your team, your speed and mobility make you perfect for this. If you see a teammate fighting 1v1 then sneak up behind his opponent and shoot his rear CT. If the enemy ignores you then you core him, if he comes after you try to get him to expose his rear to your teammate.

If you are fighting 1v1 and suddenly find yourself outnumbered then get out of there. Try to get back to your team or if that is not feasible try to separate the enemies so you can harry them one by one.

Don't be greedy. This is the primary thing that gets me killed. Sometimes when you have worked over an enemy and he is almost dead but his buddies show up it is really tempting to try to finish him off even though you are outnumbered. Just let him go. It is better to live to do more damage and let someone else get the kill shot than to die trying to get it yourself. Assists are vital to winning so if you don't get the kill don't worry about it.

When I stick to these simple rules I usually do very well and survive the match. When I get greedy or over extend I often die before I can do much.

[scJazz]

Lostdragon, on 26 August 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

When I stick to these simple rules I usually do very well and survive the match. When I get greedy or over extend I often die before I can do much.

I think that should be turned into my Rule 12 ) If you are the first to die you are doing it wrong!

[Johnny Marek Summers]

How about Rule 13: "Gordon Gekko was wrong. Greed KILLS!"?

[BlacKcuD]

Locking targets was mentioned a few times. If it is relatively early in the game and/or there are only a few targets present on the map, KEEP THE LOCK. You allied LRM boats will thank you for that. Otherwise you just helped your team waste a lot of missiles

[scJazz]

Johnny Marek Summers, on 26 August 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

How about Rule 13: "Gordon Gekko was wrong. Greed KILLS!"?

Given that the movie was allegory for Liberal we hate Reagan...

yeah... no not really

Greed is good as long as you are bright enough to pull it off

and 1000 posts... I couldn't be happier with it

\o/