21 replies to this topic

[Thrystblade]

In regards to the metagame, at least.

The latest 'ask the devs' has pretty much stated that they want it to take NINETEEN TO TWENTY HOURS to attain a 'high end' mech.

Quote

There was a need to bring down the average to get the c-bill earning per hour to a level that makes sense in terms of the amount of time to acquire the higher end assault Mechs. This has been tuned to approximately 19-20hrs of gameplay to purchase an Atlas.

Not to mention that this just confirms the lie they made in the patch notes, trying to say it was 'balancing' the 12 v 12. Yeah. Right.



So, they want you to spent twenty hours unlocking a single assault mech.

Then you need to unlock two more variants on top of that.

And then the weapons.

The DHS.

The XL engines.

The ARTEMIS if you like that.

Endo-steel structure, anyone?

If you want a mech that actually works to the top of its performance and operates the way you want it to, in a competetive sense, you need to drop ONE HUNDRED PLUS HOURS into it.

I'm sorry, but... what?

And funnily enough, this also highly inconveniences people who use light mechs as well. Because the weapons, the DHS, the engines, all of those cost MORE than the mech itself.




Now, put yourselves in the shoes of a new player.

100 hours to become competetive. Forced to use STOCK MECHS until you breach that 10 million mark for an ATLAS if that's what you want. I haven't done the new pilot for a while, so I don't know how long that would take. I'm guessing hours upon hours.

Oh, and everyone else on the field already has their mechs kitted out because they played pre-release and got all the shiny upgrades and have millions in c-bills in their accounts.

New players are going to be crushed into the dirt by superior mechs, and then warded off by the huge grind. And if you think otherwise, you're deluding yourself.



PGI just doesn't understand their playerbase. Period.

And it's going to kill this game. Slowly but surely.

The people that are still here are here to stay. But don't expect a lot of new faces around.

[Kushko]

I agree, their economy "plan" does not work with the "3 variant" system and is very off putting. I really dont understand the devs when they do stuff like this. Who was the old economy actually hurting? Happy (at least when it comes to the economy) players mean more paying costumers. More mechs bought means more bays needing to be unlocked. Theres no trade so the economy cant be ruined by those who play 6+h a day every day and have done so since open beta thus unlocking every mech and getting a substantial c-bills pileup.

Its all just very odd. Its not good for us players, its not good for the devs and it certanly is not good for the game. The economy nerf fixed nothing but instead frustrated many active players and stands to frustrate many more new players as well.

[Thrystblade]

Kushko, on 23 August 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

I agree, their economy "plan" does not work with the "3 variant" system and is very off putting. I really dont understand the devs when they do stuff like this. Who was the old economy actually hurting? Happy (at least when it comes to the economy) players mean more paying costumers. More mechs bought means more bays needing to be unlocked. Theres no trade so the economy cant be ruined by those who play 6+h a day every day and have done so since open beta thus unlocking every mech and getting a substantial c-bills pileup.

Its all just very odd. Its not good for us players, its not good for the devs and it certanly is not good for the game. The economy nerf fixed nothing but instead frustrated many active players and stands to frustrate many more new players as well.

Not to mention that any attempt to curb a 'trade economy' is already a failure because those people who played for so long already have all these things...

the economy changes only really hurt new players and players who have yet to become 'established', which is exactly the wrong people to hurt. They just don't understand. At all.

[Tezcatli]

I can be patient with most of the changes they make. But I spent money on premium time for the very first time. Yay I get to make as much as I did before the patch.
Yeah I won't be buying anything else if they intend to screw with people's C-bill gain. : /

[RedThirteen]

They're at the "let's milk this *****" end of the game developer spectrum so never keep your hopes up, gild your soul with the armour of contempt and all will be well.

[Wintersdark]

Or, you know, go for something other than the most expensive mechs in the game. Mediums are quite reasonable, as are many heavies - particularly if you stick with standard engines.

Just say'n.

You want to master the biggest, baddest mechs in the game? It'll take you a long time. *shrugs* Or you can pay to do it faster (buy 'em with MC, ideally when they are on sale) - it's a F2P game, that's how it works.

But remember, you don't need to buy the full set of upgrades for every variant. Pick the one you're most interested in, fully upgrade it, then just level the others as much as required with just DHS. Artemis is often not worthwhile these days, ES is useful in most cases but not necessary if you're just grinding out basics.

*shrugs* I don't like the c-bill nerf, I doubt anyone does. But there are lots of ways to work with it and still make decent money. Play more Conquest, legkill mechs instead of tearing them apart with random fire (yay salvage!), run Hero mechs. There are lots of cheap, excellent mechs, and with drop weight limits coming into play lighter mechs will have a very real value.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

Wintersdark, on 23 August 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Play more Conquest

Heh, I think that's the worst possible way to earn money at the moment given it just prolongs matches.

[Kushko]

Rat of the Legion Vega, on 23 August 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Heh, I think that's the worst possible way to earn money at the moment given it just prolongs matches.

I have to agree. Ive completely stopped doing conquest since for me its less fun and i earn considerably less doing it (they even nerfed it even more which is just mindblowing). Assault for the win, or at least for less suck...

[Takony]

I agree, it's as if they don't play their own game.
19-20 hours WOULD be reasonable for a "top tier avatar" IF that avatar WAS ready for playing. But it's not ready. And you need not one not two but three frigging "top tier avatar" to fully unlock its capabilities. Are you out of your mind? It's not 20 houts it's more like 80 to 100, and that is way over aany semblance of acceptable time frame for a normal person. Buff cbills or bust it PGI.

[Accursed Richards]

Wintersdark, on 23 August 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Or, you know, go for something other than the most expensive mechs in the game. Mediums are quite reasonable, as are many heavies - particularly if you stick with standard engines.

Just say'n.

You want to master the biggest, baddest mechs in the game? It'll take you a long time. *shrugs* Or you can pay to do it faster (buy 'em with MC, ideally when they are on sale) - it's a F2P game, that's how it works.

But remember, you don't need to buy the full set of upgrades for every variant. Pick the one you're most interested in, fully upgrade it, then just level the others as much as required with just DHS. Artemis is often not worthwhile these days, ES is useful in most cases but not necessary if you're just grinding out basics.

*shrugs* I don't like the c-bill nerf, I doubt anyone does. But there are lots of ways to work with it and still make decent money. Play more Conquest, legkill mechs instead of tearing them apart with random fire (yay salvage!), run Hero mechs. There are lots of cheap, excellent mechs, and with drop weight limits coming into play lighter mechs will have a very real value.

Your profile says you've been around since December. I'm guessing you've got a good stockpile of money, and / or all the mechs you were interested in levelled up and kitted out, so this change doesn't particularly affect you?

Edited by Accursed Richards, 24 August 2013 - 03:49 AM.

[Plaguicida]

I guess they want new players to spend REAL money in MC credits to buy their 'Mechs.

I'm not sure if they are following a wise strategy about that particular. The current game offers a challenging experience to master one mech variant, and when you do it you will most probably spend some real money in an additional chassis variant, nice painting, or more mech bays. But if you find too difficult to buy your first two or three Mechs... well, then you will most probably quit the game.

[Riptor]

The listing price for a Daishi prime is somewhere between 34 million and 40 million cbills.


Yeah... ill just leave that here for you people to think about.

Edited by Riptor, 24 August 2013 - 04:34 AM.

[Royalewithcheese]

Tribes tried this. People (myself included, and this was with premium time) got bored and left, and they recently froze development. Bad idea for longevity to force players to put in ~3 IRL days into an internet robots game to get a chassis competitive.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Back when repair and rearm was introduced in Closed Beta, they raised the c-bill earning rate and gauged the metrics. After they gathered the data they needed they lowered the earnings to gauge the metrics and see how the system was working. It didn't, so they scrapped repair and rearm in open beta. Later on, they introduced new rewards and gauged the metrics. This is all part of beta testing, especially when a major feature like Community Warfare is going to be released.

From what was stated about CW, that units could possibly gain MC and C-Bills from occupying planets. This would play a major role in what the end of match rewards are and they have to balance the two to work in harmony.

[M0rpHeu5]

Wintersdark, on 23 August 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Or, you know, go for something other than the most expensive mechs in the game. Mediums are quite reasonable, as are many heavies - particularly if you stick with standard engines.

Just say'n.

You want to master the biggest, baddest mechs in the game? It'll take you a long time. *shrugs* Or you can pay to do it faster (buy 'em with MC, ideally when they are on sale) - it's a F2P game, that's how it works.

This game is supsed to support role warfaire, this means that every mech should be equaly usefull in the battlefield. Why someone who likes the role of the baddass brawler should have to gring so much longer than somene who likes the role of the medium flanker.
Now to be clear i don't thenk that the assaults mechs are overprosed but when you should buy 3 to be competitive is an other story
1 hunchie 4mil one atlas 10mil, 6mil deferense isn't a big deat but
3xHunchies 12mil 3xatlai 30mil, 18mil deferense is

[Wintersdark]

Accursed Richards, on 24 August 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

Your profile says you've been around since December. I'm guessing you've got a good stockpile of money, and / or all the mechs you were interested in levelled up and kitted out, so this change doesn't particularly affect you?

You'd guess very wrong.

I've got lots of mechs, absolutely. I've got 24. I reequip them all the time, though, and the constant artemis on/off ES on/off is a huge drain on resources, as is engine purchases. I'd love more modules, but I simply can't afford them - despite 24 mechs, I've got 4 modules total: One of each seismic, target info, sensor range, and (lol!) advanced zoom.

Right now I've got 18m cbills, and I've been saving them for weeks to be able to kit up my new ProPho mechs with DHS and ES, which will run me roughly 20m c-bills. I don't get to play much, and I already buy some non-MC mechs with MC because given my amount of play time, it took me roughly a month of play to buy and equip an Atlas, at the old earnings, with premium time and a hero mech. If you look back over my posts in "OMG you bought that mech for MC?!" sorts of threads, I've always complained of this.

As I said in my first comment, I don't like the new c-bill rate. I far preferred making more.

But I don't object overall. I can't play much, nowhere near like how many people do. So I take advantage of the mech sales, and buy oddball mechs when they're cheap. Bus fare for a mech is entirely reasonable - I'll generally buy one for MC, and two for cbills.

I don't view it as a grind at all. Grinding is doing something you don't like to get to where you can do what you do like - I like the gameplay overall. I love piloting new mechs, building my skills with that chassis while gaining the pilot skills. That *IS* the game to me. And, once you've got your basics? You can absolutely be competitive there. Your pilot skills, once you have your basics, are a small fraction of your overall performance and will almost never be the deciding factor in victory or defeat. Player skill is vastly, vastly more important. Poor players blame their poor performance on only having basics.

[Wintersdark]

M0rpHeu5, on 24 August 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

This game is supsed to support role warfaire, this means that every mech should be equaly usefull in the battlefield. Why someone who likes the role of the baddass brawler should have to gring so much longer than somene who likes the role of the medium flanker.
Now to be clear i don't thenk that the assaults mechs are overprosed but when you should buy 3 to be competitive is an other story
1 hunchie 4mil one atlas 10mil, 6mil deferense isn't a big deat but
3xHunchies 12mil 3xatlai 30mil, 18mil deferense is

All mechs are comparatively equally useful, because of weight class balancing. But it doesn't mean they all cost the same - that's just silly. Of course the biggest, baddest mechs in the game cost a lot.

Like Brawling? There are other options than just Atlases to do that. Start cheaper, then work towards the Atlas later. The whole point is that the time required provides goals for players.

Because really, an Hunchback really isn't the equal of an Atlas. Lower cost of entry is a major draw for Mediums. If anything, there should be a greater cost disparity, with it being comparably faster to get into Mediums. They're supposed to be the workhorse of the battlefield, the bulk of the fighters - the bulk of the brawlers, even. If everyone and their dog jumps into heavy assault mechs (as has been happening) it gets very silly.

[M0rpHeu5]

Wintersdark, on 24 August 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

All mechs are comparatively equally useful, because of weight class balancing. But it doesn't mean they all cost the same - that's just silly. Of course the biggest, baddest mechs in the game cost a lot.

Like Brawling? There are other options than just Atlases to do that. Start cheaper, then work towards the Atlas later. The whole point is that the time required provides goals for players.

Because really, an Hunchback really isn't the equal of an Atlas. Lower cost of entry is a major draw for Mediums. If anything, there should be a greater cost disparity, with it being comparably faster to get into Mediums. They're supposed to be the workhorse of the battlefield, the bulk of the fighters - the bulk of the brawlers, even. If everyone and their dog jumps into heavy assault mechs (as has been happening) it gets very silly.

I said that i have no problem about the deference of buying one. The problem is that I have to buy 3

[Tyrnea Smurf]

The only way the c-bill nerf get justified is if the (as of now mythical) community warfare adds enough perks to offset the nerf putting us back at a happy medium. Otherwise the nerf is just that - a nerf. and a bad one at that.

So many perceived problems with the game are said to be fixed with either UI 2.0 or community warfare.

No pressure boys...

[BillyM]

Why is it that half the community acts like a whiny child who just found out the kid across the street gets a higher allowance?

To those of you who want more for less: shut your mouth, play the game, or cough up money if you don't like the "grind".

As for this "Grind" that folks refer to. I like to refer to it as "sitting down after a long day at work, drinking a beer, forming up with a friend or two, and having good robot shoot'ey time". Next thing I know, I'm chilling on 3-4million c-bills and get a new mech for FREE! F2-friggin-P!

...I need to spend less time here, it's making me dislike people.

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 24 August 2013 - 08:47 AM.