38 replies to this topic

[Naenlor]

This is seriously ******* me off. I am in a CTF-2X, with just a STD engine. I have the max armor i can put on it, 434 tons. Most of it is on the front, because i got tired of people IN FRONT of me was 3 shotting me, AND IT IS STILL ******* HAPPENING! its bs! i got a heavy with **** tons of armor, and i can't take a ******* hit! i have pounded into lights for 2 minute straight, and they are still standing, yet my mech can't handle a few med lasers, and its destroyed! and mind it, this is all from the front! I would understand if i kept letting people behind me, especially since i put most of my armor in the front. But i am talking about frontal assualts. I am suppose to be a Brawler, yet i die within 10 seconds of brawling. Apparently armor just doesn't ******* matter in this game, because if armor mattered, my HEAVY wouldn't die to a few medium laser shots! I am just about done with this game.

[Rasc4l]

I can understand the pain. I've had similar experiences in my dragon, which has similar problems. I suggest staying far with dakka dakka or buying a centurion.

[Dawnstealer]

Torso twist, preferably exposing the side with less weapons. Fire a salvo, roll your torso away, wait until you see the hit indicator, spin back, fire.

Another benefit about turning side-on is that, even once your side torso is blown off, it still absorbs some damage (something MWO doesn't advertise). It takes a bit to get this down, and having all the twist perks and a bigger engine (which helps you twist faster), all help.

Also, 'Phracts have HUUUUUUUUGE CTs that are easily hit. I have had side torsos taken off before, but it's rare. Even in my Atlas, I'm usually cored because most people shoot for the center mass.

Finally, remember that Cataphracts are at the upper end of the Heavies. While they're not Assaults, most people realize how dangerous they are, how much firepower they bring to the table.

Experienced players will realize that taking down the Cataphract FIRST is a good way to take out a lot of the opponent's firepower without as much effort (shots, ammo, etc) as it would take to bring down an Assault. Phracts have a reputation similar to AC40/Dual Gauss Jagers: they aren't the toughest things in the world, but they can pack a really heavy punch.

...but they can't always take one. Turn your back on a 'Phract or AC40/Gauss Jager, and you're asking for a short game. Easier to just take them out of the equation.

Especially being faster than most Assaults, you're probably reaching the battle earlier and people will get tunnel vision and relentlessly attack the first thing they see until either it or they are dead.

So recap:

1) Torso twist like crazy, time it to their shots. If nothing else, this will spread the damage out rather than concentrating it in one spot.

2) Stay with, and in, your pack. Don't range too far ahead of them.

3) How is your brawler set up? I'm curious: do you have AMS on that thing?

[Appogee]

Being in a Heavy isn't a free pass to taking damage without consequences. Most of your enemies are in Assaults or Heavies. So you still need to avoid getting shot, while shooting the enemies, same as every other FPSer.

1. Max your armour all over. Shave a few points off the head if you need to round it to the nearest ton..

2. Avoid take taking hits front on. Use cover.

3. Avoid being in the front line getting shot at by multiple enemies.

4. Fight in close proximity to other Mechs. Shoot what they're shooting.

5. If you see multiple enemies flanking you, back away or get out of there.

6. If you're in a brawl, twist and turn to spread damage around.

Hope this helps.

Edited by Appogee, 27 August 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

The Cataphract is a tricky chassis. You need to expose a lot of the torso to get shots on the enemy and the front of the 'Mech is a slab-faced target which is very easy to hit. With maximum armour and standard 2:1 front and back, you have 40 armour on each side torso and 60 in the CT. That can weather a lot of medium laser damage if you are twisting your torso to force the beams to drag across your front, rather than standing still. However - it cannot take much pinpoint damage from GRs, PPCs or autocannons.

My CTF-1X has an AC20 and 5 MLs and can punch another CTF's side torso in one salvo. A lot about survival is positioning, deciding when to attack, with and against whom. When the fire is coming in, movement and defensive torso twisting can help.

Good luck!

Edited by Dalziel Hasek Davion, 27 August 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[Cybermech]

sounds like you don't have enough back armor.
it is very easy to take back armor damage while in a game.
even if you aim to take things head on.
cataphreks don't soak up damage like some others do.
you got the high damage of an assault with less armor.
Spiders are another thing all together, you have to lead your shot and even then it doesn't work to good.

[Redshift2k5]

Using cover?

Defensive torso twisting?

Proper map usage and tactics?

If you're going to stand there and try to "tank it", you're going to get killed no matter what mech you're in.

[Dawnstealer]

Redshift2k5, on 27 August 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

Using cover?

Defensive torso twisting?

Proper map usage and tactics?

If you're going to stand there and try to "tank it", you're going to get killed no matter what mech you're in.

*unless you're in a King Crab. Because King Crab.

[Itsalrightwithme]

Do you put ammo in your side torso without CASE?

Here's a build that I like.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...991e4f0742fb544

CTF-2X with STD300, LPuls, LB10-x, SRM6. Use the 2xMLas as backup weapons or when you are finishing off a light mech. To start with, just lock the arm/torso, fire with the LPL at range and with MLas/SRM/LB10-x at closer ranges.

If you show us your exact configuration via the MWO.smurfy link above, we can help you optimize your build.

[WVAnonymous]

If you're staring at another Cataphract like a dual-Gauss Ilya, 3 shots * 2 Gauss * 15 points = 90 points of damage in 12 seconds. You don't have that much armor.

Don't stand still.

[StarGeezer]

Two things to keep in mind:

1) Being designated a "brawler" doesn't confer a license to wade into the thick of battle and start slugging it out with any- and everyone. Such an approach can and will end in a swift and gruesome end. I've seen plenty of heavy and assault mech pilots with a brawler build who enter combat with an almost artistic vision of who to engage, how best to engage them, and knowing when to change their approach when the situation warrants. Such tactical knowledge and precision comes only through much practice (and very likely many less-than-stellar results on the battlefield in the past.)

2) At the risk of sounding a little zen, you can't take your defeats too seriously. Sure, everyone gets a little aggravated with hit box quirks, non-registering shots, and getting your head blown clean off...twice in a row. GRRRR. Where was I? Oh yeah, don't take it so personally. Learn from it, watch the rest of the match, root for your lance/team, and then get ready for the next drop. If you're prone to rage, you'll make mental errors that will cost you every time.

Best of luck, and enjoy the game!

[Elizander]

Torso twist. I run a Wang with 280XL and my main weapon is an AC/20 on the arm. It's not uncommon for me to be able to dish out 400+ damage with just an AC/20 and 2 medium pulse lasers thanks to torso twisting. Most of the time my left shield arm will get blown off before anything else on my mech unless I do something stupid and dive the enemy team.

Twist, move, find cover, plug in an AMS. Every bit helps. If you're taking 5 seconds to aim your weapons that's going to be a problem. Twist and snap shot in a brawl, fire and duck at long range. Walking in a straight line towards the enemy is a pretty bad idea as well.

[Royalewithcheese]

How many people are shooting you at once? A leading cause of brawler death, especially these days, is getting focus-fired down. Generally you want to be fighting one enemy, and you want the fight to be on your terms. Defensive piloting (torso twist is a big one) is absolutely key. It's also important to conserve armor before a fight - if you can avoid incidental PPC fire by keeping your head down, you'll have more armor left by the time you get to the fight.

Another thing to remember in a brawler: they're afraid of you. They don't want a Cataphract in their face. If you can put an alpha or two into their CT, you'll put them on the defensive and take fewer hits as a result.

[Elizander]

Royalewithcheese, on 27 August 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

How many people are shooting you at once? A leading cause of brawler death, especially these days, is getting focus-fired down. Generally you want to be fighting one enemy, and you want the fight to be on your terms. Defensive piloting (torso twist is a big one) is absolutely key. It's also important to conserve armor before a fight - if you can avoid incidental PPC fire by keeping your head down, you'll have more armor left by the time you get to the fight.

Another thing to remember in a brawler: they're afraid of you. They don't want a Cataphract in their face. If you can put an alpha or two into their CT, you'll put them on the defensive and take fewer hits as a result.

On the brawler part, I literally hide under a mountain and support my team with AMS without looking over the hill until I can see the enemy closing in or I can sneak around cover and get with some other mechs to the back lines. Charging down the front line with short range weapons is one sure way to bite the dust with under 100 damage.

Sometimes I will not do anything, just cover with AMS for 5-7 minutes before I get my chance to brawl properly (and by that time there are many delicious internals exposed).

[Rascula]

The Cataphract can be a really tricky beast to master, as said above try and hang with the assaults or or other heavies and torso twist your way out of trouble. Learning to move your arms and torso out of the way is a major learning curve in MWO, as without that skill you can die in seconds.

Keep practicing and good luck!

[Bront]

Head encounters you need to pick and choose. Sure, you've got tons of armor, but that can be stripped away easily by a few accurate shots. Having a variety of weapons to help rock your target will help prevent accurate return fire, and being consious of how much damage you can dish out is good as well, so you know when to simply face hug and pound it out.

Look for flanking opertunities, and hug cover. There's Brawling, and then there's Leroy Jenkinsing. Sadly, sometimes it's just as dependant on your teammates as to which one is which.

[Enervation]

As the above posts say, the term 'Brawler' is a little misleading. if you want to get in close and mix it up, make sure you have some backup. charging full throttle into the fray and taking on a bunch of mechs at once way ahead of your buddies (who are jumping from cover to cover behind you) will almost always earn you a big hole in the middle.

being brazen and taking the charge is also a lot less effective than going around a building/cliff and blowing someone's backside off while they are distracted. keep in mind that having lots of speed helps you the most when you are IN the fight for manuverability and twist speed, but it helps you less when you are running INTO the fight because being in front of your allies will make you the object of focus fire.

[DEMAX51]

Maybe you're too slow? What rating of standard engine are you using?

Basic tactics for a longer life: Stick with your teammates, and let the Assaults take the lead! Heavy 'Mech =/= Tank!

And don't think lowly of medium lasers, either. A Jenner with 6 MLs has an alpha strike of 30 pts! Three of those, and you're toast.

[Mechteric]

Walking straight into 4+ mechs with their guns pointed straight at your CT is the only way I know of to get cored out that quickly in a CTF. Make sure you're not alone when you push up into amassed enemies.... also the torso twisty thing.

[Naenlor]

This is the latest build i have been running, but i am always changing it, trying to figure out how to make this work.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b6ecb8b7bda067b

I used to run with a XL 255 engine, but i was dieing even quicker with that, due to the fact that the engine also sits in the left and right torso, and i would literally take a PPC, ER LL, and a AC/10 from the front, and BOOM dead from engine failure because my right torso was gone. Pissed me off to no end, so i switched to this engine to stop it. So far it has worked in that regard, but i still feel like i can't take the damage that lights and mediums can take, and that is what ****** me off. If I didn't run into ravens that can take 5-6 shots of dual SRM6's, GR, and 3 ML's, then i wouldn't be so pissed, but i have watched with my own eyes at them just take hit after hit from me, and somehow survive. Then they shot me a few times with med lasers and my mech just falls over.

And when i am out in the fight with mediums, half of them can just sit there, take all my shots, and still kill me faster. It just doesn't make sense.

Edited by Naenlor, 27 August 2013 - 12:11 PM.