109 replies to this topic

[Crazycajun]

ricardox, on 27 August 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

LOL yep. I'm a founder and I actually support his view point for the most part. Larger the group that shares information, more effective they are. after about 2.. maybe 3, it's really hard for a non-communicating group (not because they dont want to.. it's because there is no in-game facility to) compensate. 4 man and up TS is probably the most OP thing in the game right now.

Right..but that not a direct fault of just sole founders... i mean... there are other players ? right?

surely i'm being delusional about the thousands of others .... or am i in some where matrix again..

[ricardox]

Crazycajun, on 27 August 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Right..but that not a direct fault of just sole founders... i mean... there are other players ? right?

surely i'm being delusional about the thousands of others .... or am i in some where matrix again..

I think he has a good point about match maker queues but mistaken idea all founders are in "cahoots" or something.

As usual, it's bad to stereotype.

Edited by ricardox, 27 August 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[Allekatrase]

ricardox, on 27 August 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Yep. Hence my "use a ELO multiplier or something" for the groups. Having a high enough multiplier will nearly ensure there's a near equal group on the otherside since unmultiplied solos wont be able to match the combined ELO.


Even then tho, that match will probably be only good for the groups.

My ideal solution would be to fill in nothing but groups on both sides until you only have 1-3 slots left on the team and then put solo players in those spots. This minimizes the crossover while still allowing groups to play with less than a full group.

[Bhael Fire]

Not sure who PGI is listening too (could be a Magic 8-Ball for all I know)...but, I'm pretty sure it's not the founders.

Or people on this forum.

But other than that, I agree with the OP.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Crazycajun, on 27 August 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

I fail to see where the founders are the sole criminal in this why i'm getting lumped in with the rest of the trash...

ricardox, on 27 August 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

LOL yep. I'm a founder and I actually support his view point for the most part. Larger the group that shares information, more effective they are. after about 2.. maybe 3, it's really hard for a non-communicating group (not because they dont want to.. it's because there is no in-game facility to) compensate. 4 man and up TS is probably the most OP thing in the game right now.

If the shoe fits is all I can say. It was nothing personal.

My comment about the founders was a justified generalization. Just like most cops are good and a handful of bad apples will give every other cop a bad name. It does not mean there are no good founders with a grasp of the future of this game. It also does not mean something does not need to be done about the donkey heads destroying the game for the future majority.

[Crazycajun]

Khobai, on 27 August 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

I get that people want to play with their friends. Thats why groups of 2-3 SHOULD be absolutely allowed. But groups of 4 can influence the game too much.

I would say max group size should be = 2 in 8v8 and 3 in 12v12

defeats the whole purpose of clan/house/merc warfare in a sense....also defeats the purpose of team game... with the exception of the others that you would be matched with ...

pugstumps suck yes...but its the price u pay for being a lone wolf at this time...all that may change once ..if ever..we get CW here..

but like i said long ago...the whole idea of the team play is based round the idea that people in clans/guilds etc ..want to play with the people in their grp...why do they have to be penalized for the sake of a solo player....

really wish some you people where around in WW2online when i played it years ago when the devs in that game decided to take the game away from the squads and put it in the hands of a few... mass exodus ensued...

limited people to who they can play or join with and forcing them into groups they do not wish to be in will only result in a loss of players...this is not something we need..we should be actually rallying for people to be playing together ..not against each other..

[Khobai]

The worst part is players think crushing pugs in a 4man makes them good.

What makes you good is carrying your entire team solo, when theres a 4 man on the other team. Thats what I do.

Quote

defeats the whole purpose of clan/house/merc warfare in a sense....also defeats the purpose of team game... with the exception of the others that you would be matched with ...

No it doesnt. Groups of 2-3 go in the pug queue. Groups of 4 or more go in the group queue. No purpose is defeated. You want to play a team game? Fine... play against other teams. That is fair.

Right now pugs are not a team... theyre a group of confused individuals who are handed mechs and told to follow the blue mechs and shoot the red mechs. There is no strategy or tactics and half the time pugs end up being a burden because they stand directly behind you so you cant back up, and end up taking tons of damage.

A 4-man is a team. They communicate with eachother. They work together. They focus fire. That is why 4-mans have no place in pug matches. Even 2-3 mans are teams, but I feel denying players the ability to group with their friends is wrong, so I think groups of 2-3 should be allowed.

Edited by Khobai, 27 August 2013 - 07:02 PM.

[Crazycajun]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 27 August 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

If the shoe fits is all I can say. It was nothing personal.

My comment about the founders was a justified generalization. Just like most cops are good and a handful of bad apples will give every other cop a bad name. It does not mean there are no good founders with a grasp of the future of this game. It also does not mean something does not need to be done about the donkey heads destroying the game for the future majority.

you'r wrong..the shoe doesn't fit and your generalization is misguided and wrong and its borderline insulting..

your just looking for a vent for your frustration and have homed it in on us because we just happen to have a tag under our name..

what you fail to see through your rage is that ALOT of us "founders" are in the same boat as you chump..

if your so bent on being " mad brah?" ...point it at the right place... the developers.

[Allekatrase]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 27 August 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

If the shoe fits is all I can say. It was nothing personal.

My comment about the founders was a justified generalization. Just like most cops are good and a handful of bad apples will give every other cop a bad name. It does not mean there are no good founders with a grasp of the future of this game. It also does not mean something does not need to be done about the donkey heads destroying the game for the future majority.

You seem to have a complex here. I don't know where you get this idea from. If anything most founders seem to argue in favor of a more simulator type game and closer to TT. Neither of those things have been listened to at all by the devs. In terms of matchmaking the last time I remember there being big debate about it the majority seemed to be in favor of separate queues. They wanted to group, but they only wanted to match up against other groups when they were grouped. You either need to cite some sources or else back off about founders because you're way off base.

A good rule of thumb is to look at what pgi has implemented. If they implemented it you can be almost sure that the founders didn't ask for it.

Edited by Allekatrase, 27 August 2013 - 06:58 PM.

[I am]

Where was all this common sense and revelation 6 months ago. This isn't new. Where was this revelation when the game went open beta? That's when most people were introduced and turned off to MWO. Ever hear of too little too late? I don't care how you formulate the elo/xvm/whatever score, or how you program the mm, if your pool of players is too small it can't function properly.

Only fix is to grow the population. After the amount of ROFL stomping which has been allowed to take place to date, I'm not sure if that's possible. Still say the most damaging thing PGI ever did to themselves was allow full teams to queue up versus pubs when OB began. But to allow it to go on this long....

[Khobai]

Quote

Where was all this common sense and revelation 6 months ago. This isn't new. Where was this revelation when the game went open beta?

It was there. Ive been trying to talk sense to PGI for over a year

The problem is PGI doesnt listen. Its been an ongoing issue. The recent 3PV fiasco is just the most recent, and most volatile, of a series of community lashouts that goes all the way back to last year with ECM being mishandled.

[ricardox]

I am, on 27 August 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

Where was all this common sense and revelation 6 months ago. This isn't new. Where was this revelation when the game went open beta? That's when most people were introduced and turned off to MWO. Ever hear of too little too late? I don't care how you formulate the elo/xvm/whatever score, or how you program the mm, if your pool of players is too small it can't function properly.

Only fix is to grow the population. After the amount of ROFL stomping which has been allowed to take place to date, I'm not sure if that's possible. Still say the most damaging thing PGI ever did to themselves was allow full teams to queue up versus pubs when OB began. But to allow it to go on this long....

Hey hey.. I been away since closed beta.. just came back couple of monthes ago...

<nervously backs away while making excuses>

EDIT: But I agree with you... probably single biggest way a new user is turned off is getting stomped right away by someone more familiar who is using a mech he wont be getting for at least 2 more weeks of playing (never mind the modules he wont be getting for at least a month.)

Edited by ricardox, 27 August 2013 - 07:20 PM.

[Mycrus]

Not this {Scrap} again...

So what do you expect vets to do - stop playing?

You vilify people that just wants to play the game with friends..

There is nothing much to do in-game anymore... I haz 50+ mechs already elited/mastered out...

I play 4-man only while waiting for 12-mans to form...

What we need is lobbies or solaris arena... and some other way to keep vets entertained..

If you think pugstomping is fun - yah wrong brah!

It is boring and after grinding up a battalion worth of mechs - it gets stale really quick...

Btw, before elo I was vehemently against dropping 4s... It was boring and shooting fish in a barrell is not what I call fun...

Elo is another band aid attempt by piggy, but at least it lessened the pugstomps...

Why pugstomps continue

Is because there is not new players to fill their own queue... Something about how borked the NPE is...

[SweetWarmIce]

The only difference between PUG and Premade is coordination and the required communication. That is all. When you get a random group that is willing to offer ideas, type their target and targets seen. Magic happens.

In game chat won't do anything. If people aren't willing to talk to strangers over text they sure as hell aren't going to do it over VOIP. Instead of not typing they'll not say anything.

[ricardox]

SweetWarmIce, on 27 August 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

The only difference between PUG and Premade is coordination and the required communication. That is all. When you get a random group that is willing to offer ideas, type their target and targets seen. Magic happens.

In game chat won't do anything. If people aren't willing to talk to strangers over text they sure as hell aren't going to do it over VOIP. Instead of not typing they'll not say anything.

kinda self contradicting post, if they dont talk to each other over text how are they supposed to make magic happen and compete with people who coordinate over voice?

BTW.. it's REALLY hard to type " they are coming round the ship. focus fire on charlie" while maneuvering and firing.

Edited by ricardox, 27 August 2013 - 07:47 PM.

[I am]

In game comms would be an ineffective Band-Aid. Look at other competitive games. Randoms can only rise to a certain level. In game comms. Comms would help. More specifically hotkeys for attack/defend/help/backtobase would probably be the most beneficial. The only reason people argue adding in games comms in MWO will level the playing field in regards to teams vs. solo, is bc it hasn't been implemented yet. It will fail, and that will be one less argument in favor of pug farming. Stomps will continue if that's the only additional measure taken. There's a lot more to a team than voice comms. As you play with people, you gain cohesion. That's really the best way to describe it. No matter what you add, randoms will rarely have such cohesion.

[SweetWarmIce]

ricardox, on 27 August 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

kinda self contradicting post, if they dont talk to each other over text how are they supposed to make magic happen and compete with people who coordinate over voice?

BTW.. it's REALLY hard to type " they are coming round the ship. focus fire on charlie" while maneuvering and firing.

You are correct voice is faster then text and has the advantage. My point is that people are unwilling to make an effort to work as a team. If they're against a team that is willing, be it text or voice they will lose 9 times out of 10. Just like every other team based game ever, even the ones that do have in game voice comms.

It is hard to type while actually playing but if you take cover you can get off a "ship right side focus c" without too much trouble.

[Kahoumono]

Can't deny there is not advantage in groups, that's like saying the current 3PV isn't an advantage. You get an advantage on the battlefield as well as off because you can coordinate mech selection. The other sad truth is that there probably isn't enough of an active population to separate the queues just like there isn't enough for 3PV.

I really like the idea of a simple ELO group multiplier. First, multiplier for groups on the other team would be cancelled out. Second, groups would be given a slight handicap. Current comms is too cumbersome and can be simplified with simple hotkeys like, attack my target, regroup/flank left/flank right on my position, hold current position, push forward and so on so forth.

[Mycrus]

So come online in any of the free ts3s and play with people...

I have a friend that refuses to mic - last time I heard his voice was in closed beta...

As long you can listen - you are all set..

[PEEFsmash]

Hmmm...Its almost like working as a team helps you perform better in a team game...Weird.

You should bring up this possibility in the next Ask The Devs and see if they know about this phenomena.