18 replies to this topic

[Bromineberry]

Hi,

after having played medium mechs (i.e. Hunchbacks) for a long time, I wanted to play heavies. At this point I'm torn between the Dragon and the Catapult. And no, I don't care about the Quickdraw or Jäger, simply because I don't like them.

So please, help me choose!

First of all I want to say, that I'm a little bit on a budget, so no money for 3 different XL engines. After playing a little bit with smurfys mech configurator I settled for a 315XL for the Catapult and probably a 350XL for the Dragon. On the Catapults I'm prett sure to get loadouts I like with said engine, on the Dragon...not so much, but I think I could manage. The real problem is, I don't now which to choose.

Catapult:
+ more armor
+ symmetrical loadouts
+ a lot of loadouts I like
- slower

Dragon:
+ quick
+ unique (it's really rare on the battlefield, I like that)
+ arm mounted weapons
- unsymmetrical loadouts
- more expensive (XL is more expensive and I'd often use ES and FF)

Everyone always says "The Dragon sucks because of its big CT! It dies super quick!". After I played a little bit with the Trial Champion Catapult, I got confused...it dies by "death via CT" very quickly. I looked at this toppic to inspect the hitboxes and now I'm even more confused:

How come, that people say the dragon has a giant CT hitbox that you can even hit from the side, but noone complains about the same fact when it's about Catapults? I mean, the Catapults CT hitbox looks equally big to me, if not even bigger, and it seems like it's pretty easy to hit from the side too. So, why does everybody say the dragon dies so quickly because of his huge CT, but I've never heared something like that about the Catapult before? Is there something I'm missing here?

So, yeah, I'd really appreciate it, if you gave me your advice and opinions.

Edit: The decision would be easier, if the Flame a: was optainable via Cbills or b: wasn't so expensive.

Edited by Bromineberry, 25 August 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[Liquid Leopard]

It may be a matter of clicking the right search result under the right alignment of stars, but I've seen a LOT of forum posts about the size of the Catapults' CT hitbox. If you're facing the Catapult head on, or if there are missiles coming down on it, the side torso hitboxes are practically nonexistent. Yes, it dies quickly under fire. Both mechs require you to avoid being hit in order to do much damage to the enemy.

Also, all the mechs' head hitboxes have been reduced to one panel of "glass" but the Catapults still have the biggest panel of anybody.

I agree with the pros and cons you list for the Dragon and Catapult. I'm partial to the Catapult, and wish I had tried the CPLT-K2 sooner.

P.S.: I like my Cataphracts, too!

[mrcrazymonkey]

I own both Mech and have lots of fun playing them. Both have fairly large CTs, and small side torsos (except for the CPTL-K2). This gives them the advantage of fitting an XL over the other Heavies. The CT on the Dragon I say is a bit better, torso twisting can prevent in coming damage more so than the Catapult can.
I roll my Dragons with and XL 340, and my catapults with something like an XL 210. This is mainly because of the way I play the. Catapults are great support Mech and should stay behind your lines so having a smaller engine will naturally put you there. Also it frees up tonnage for extra ammo/BAP etc. This doesn't apply though if you are using a streak/splat cat. I however usually support LRM builds on my cats, usually supported by a tag Raven.
As for the Dragons I use them mostly as a brawler or as a harasser. An LBX-10 comes standard with either 2 LL or 4 ML depending on the variant. A pack of 2-4 of these can be pretty amazing. I've had lots of fun chasing down lights or flanking that atlas in this Mech.
Hope this helps.

[Royalewithcheese]

The Dragon has other problems, too - it tends to be undergunned (or under-something) because of weight issues, for instance. The Catapult, on the other hand, almost always has at least one amazing weapon configuration you can run on it, regardless of what is currently UP/OP at the moment.

If you're going with a Heavy, I would also strongly consider the Cataphract. The CTF-3D is arguably the best mech in the game right now.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 25 August 2013 - 03:58 PM.

[Modo44]

Having mastered both:

Take the Catapult K2. The other variants will let you try very different builds, and they are all potent. Buy one engine between the XL265 and XL300 -- any of that will fit well with all Cats.

The Dragon can be very frustrating until you find a good playstyle and build, and it needs eliting to shine (Speed Tweak is crucial). The variants are samey unless you spring real money for the Flame. It is also more expensive -- you'd need to buy a bigger XL engine and FF over the Cat.

Edited by Modo44, 25 August 2013 - 08:55 PM.

[Bromineberry]

First of all: Thank you all for your input.

Regarding CTPL vs DRG:
I'm still undecided. The Dragon is sooo tempting...especially, because it's so rare. And going 100kp/h+ seems nice to me. I still cant get over the fact, how quick a CPLT dies to core damage. I did not expect that.

Regarding Cataphract:
I have to admit, I ignored the Cataphract because I thought it had mainly Ballistic weapons, which I hardly play. But after taking I look I saw, that I was wrong about that. There are at least two hardpoint variants that seem to be quite nice, BUT, and this is a big but, the Cataphract has one big drawback for me:
The cockpit. I simply HATE the cockpit of the Cataphract. I hate these big, intrusing vertival beams that "split" your fov into 3 panes. I even hat it when I'm spectating and I'm not sure if I can life with that, lol. On the other hand, it seems like Cataphract don't need a XL Engine.

Like I said before, thank you for your input. I think I'll wait a little bit longer simply because I hope that PGI changes the trial mechs within the next two weeks...and I want to now if perhaps the Orion will be released in September. And as my time for playing that game is limited untig the end of September, there isn o rush in buying a new mech.

If someone has additional informations and oppinons, feel free to post.

Again, thank you!

[Shadu1975]

Hi, i have a lot of fun with my Dragon 1c. But it just starts to shine if you have the elite skills. I am playing it with gauss and 2 ER-LL, 325 XL Engine, advanced Zoom, seismic sensor and target info. With this Setup i am fast enough to pick my fights and i can really do harm at 675m. The ER-LL do no pinpoint damage but you hit lights better from range. I have a lot of mechs right now and i am playing the Dragon still most of the time. Two things to be aware of: Do not get into face to face fights and do not Play fair. It is an impressive mech to hunt down hurt mechs at the end of the game because you are still faster then other even medium mechs and with the arm mounted weapons you can nearly shoot in any direction while just running between 2 covers. If this is your playstyle then you will love it.

[Hex Pallett]

The lack of variety in effective Dragon loadouts is dreadful. A typical Dragon loadout involves a Gauss, a pair of LLas or a single ERPPC. Multiple AC2 is not an option, as Dragons' lower RA ballistic mounts are far inferior than a Catapult K2's PPCs or any Jagermech in fire-support.

Not mentioning Dragons have gigantic CT.

Go for Catapult. You won't regret it.

[Xeno Phalcon]

While there are some hardcore dragon fans out there, between those two the catapult comes out on top. That being said you should wait a few days and see what comes out for september might be a mech you'll want instead of any of those.

[Targeting Error]

Honestly, if you are concerned about large CT's, or even the large head shot weakness of the catapults, run a jager or cataphract.

I started on hunchies, and just couldn't make them work well. I tried dragons, and died a lot with little effect. I moved to catapults and mastered them, did ok. Eventually, I mastered Awesomes as well, did much better with those. I have a jager I am playing with now, and it has way more flexible hardpoints any dragon I ever drove.

As a previous person said, grab an xl around 260 to 300 size, and swap it between mechs as needed. AC2s are a good way to guarantee that you face someone long enough to be CT cored more often than any other death. Gauss, AC10, AC20, or LB10x are way better for your own survival. I know I omitted AC5 and Ultra 5, but I don't run macros and I feel they share the weakness of forcing your facing with the AC2.

DOn't judge a chassis by the trial mechs either, they usually have so little armor and heat sinks compared to a custom version.

[Delchev]

I agree with the advice to wait and see what the release in end-september brings us. Don't spend your c-bills and GXP until then. We might have interesting mechs, interesting modules and who knows what.

Otherwise my advice to be to chose between Cataphract and Catapult. Former is good, especially when you learn your torso-twisting, but lack missile action. Catapults have a variety of possible ways to play, as well and I like and play both platforms a lot. I do not have an opinion on Quickdraw, it never seemed attractive to me. Dragon.... I would wait for additional quirks for that. Plus the best variant is MC based.

[SchwarzerPeter]

I realy like my Dragon, have elited my C1 recently. It realy shines with the Gaus. Also the AC5+UAC5 combo is realy nice.

You need some time to find a loadout which workes for you. I run a XL300, it leaves more tonage for guns. But haven't tryed a larger one (pretty expensive these things).

The advantage of the dragon is speed. Its faster than many lights. Also the arm mounted weapons are realy nice. And it can mount every weapon type (ok, missiles are just backup, but whatever).

Drawback is the the large CT and this thing is expensive (or rather the xl engines). If you are not careful you get cored pretty fast. But this is the case with every mech in 12 vs 12 now.

The Dragon realy shines with hit an run tacticts. Oh and you tends to get ignored.

Haven't bought a Catapult jet, just tried the starter ones. Didn't like the feel of it. But its a decent mech too.

It all goes with your preferences. The Dragon playes more like a medium mech ... with more guns ... and faster

[Training Instructor]

Eh, unless you're a big fan LRMs or SRMs, you're going to be disappointed with every catapult except the K2. On the other hand, having mastered the Flame, and suffered through eliting two other dragons, I can say that my personal opinion is that the flame is the only great dragon. The other's asymmetrical loadout and low hanging arms become really infuriating when you've got a perfectly good firing line towards some guys and you're shooting dirt while they're nailing you dead on. It just doesn't even seem fair how some mechs have nice high hardpoints and other mechs get to shoot dirt, while having no offsetting advantage over the other mech.

[Roughneck45]

I'd recommend an XL 300 for your builds. The engine sizes you selected are going to leave you undergunned unless you are boating lasers.

I'm a die hard Dragon fan, and I swear by the XL300, 4mlas, gauss, SRM6, setup. Certainly the mech I have the most fun piloting.

Buy the 1C if you like the FLAME. Same thing but swap the energy and ballistic locations.

Edited by Roughneck45, 27 August 2013 - 12:54 PM.

[Sagamore]

Dragons are a lot of fun to play. I mostly use my Flame with Gauss and 2xPPC but I have had success with a 3xAC2 DRG-5N.

I'd like you to reconsider the Quickdraw though. I have three Dragons mastered so picking up the Quickdraw was a no brainer. You have the speed of the Dragon with a smaller CT and jump jets. It is easily one of my favourite chassis. It can't mount ballistics though.

[sC4r]

well both for both mechs its pretty much requirement to have xl so expect heavy losses of c-bills

dragon... its not that bad mech as lots of peeps say if you play it right its actually a decent mech
when i had it i did 2 erppc+2ml+ machinegun on 1C and ac5+uac5+2ml on 5N... as for engines i believe it was 300 and 325
with both i played on longer ranges... though you should do so with any dragon as your ct will be your doom in short range

cats... you can basically go anything srm/ssrm/lrm/ppc/ac20/gauss builds catapult is very versatile in this, also jumpjets are really nice
also because of good torso twist and smaller ct (it can be hit from sides too but only on the beak) it is quite decent on short ranges just be carefull about your cockpit
and (this is my opinion) cats c1 and a1 are absolutely best lrm mechs of all

basically ask yourself do you want exclusively sniper/direct fire support mech or do you want versatile/missile support mech and choose your mech from that answer

Edited by sC4r, 27 August 2013 - 01:05 PM.

[Flagrant]

Dragon name rocks. Catapult sounds weak.
Dragon looks mean. Catapult is an ugly Mickey Mouse.
Hope this helps.

[Elyam]

They can both be great mechs. Whichever you choose, it won't be so long before you'll be able to try the other as well.

My favorite non-standard builds for both:

DRG-5N: 3xAC/2 (375), 2 MLAS, 320XL, 13 DHS (30%), 368 armor, ES, FF

CPLT-C1: 2xLLAS, 2xMLAS, 2xSRM6-A (300), 300XL, 16 DHS (38%), 416 armor, ES, 4 JJ

[slayerkdm]

I love my Flame. I do think Dragons are very quirky and frustrating at times. I felt they were a real grind to elite. They are fun, but they are certainly not Overpowered. I would say the Jags or Cats are easier. I prefer my Flame over both though. Honestly though, its not as good.