904 replies to this topic

[Wolfways]

Particle Man, on 28 August 2013 - 11:00 PM, said:

yes, you can peek around the corner and see me and know not to come out. i can see your drone and know not to go around that corner.

or you can line up your poptars on the ridge, peek over and know where we are. We can stand behind our hill, see that you're peeking and know where you are.

the advantage loses its advantage when you're advertising. "hey look, there's someone peeking around corners, go flank him and i';ll rush him and then we'll go kill him because he gave up his position."

like i keep saying, it's a minor advantage, that everyone has. I've never needed to even exploit it like that to benefit from someone else's exploiting it.

So your whole argument is that you can see the drone? You can't always see it. It may be hard (or even impossible) to hide it when looking over a ridge, but in a city map for example i could be standing behind a building, looking up the roads on either side of it watching for anyone coming, and there's no way you can see the drone behind the building. On comms i give my team your position and what mech you're using and any visible damage. They flank you.
Without 3pv noone would have even known you were there unless someone got line of sight to you, which also gives you line of sight to them, both able to shoot at each other.

In the past week i've had a few kills by watching someone until they turn their back to me. I hit F4, move behind them, and blow out their rear armour.

[Amerante]

Particle Man, on 28 August 2013 - 10:55 PM, said:

anecdotal evidence, yet the game still plays the same.

where are all of the threads showing how 3pv is actually ruining the game (not predictions). Where are the videos showing how it's a must have and how everyone is using it now, like when ECM was introduced and the entire game changed because of it? or when PPCs were fixed and changed the entire competative scene in to bullchip campfests of snipers?

Nothing has changed. the game still plays the same as it does, and it's rare to even see anyone using it. Competative play still plays the same (all sniping and bullchip campfests), and the game rolls on.

http://mwomercs.com/...tracing-errors/

check the pictures.
You will see only one drone... It doesn't tell you how many and what type of mechs behind the obstacle. while that one drone can provide tons of information to the team.

[Salient]

Tolkien, on 28 August 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

Yes designs can evolve but when a game is sold as 1pv only to the founders, and further money solicited with this posted:


Any reasonable person can understand why this would make people who gave you money absolutely livid.

You realize, that this statement is what this thread is really about. They will enable 12v12 to have 1pv, then they can say Bryan wasn't lying.. if you really want to, you can play 1pv only. You just need 23 other guys willing to drop with you to get a match...

Then they will note that no one plays 12v12, and announce to the public that "1pv killed 12v12s, 1pv is bad, we will take away the evil 1pv you all hate!"

Fast forward a few months, a massive wave of WoT players are now raging in the forums demanding 3PV be given a map, hud, and arm control. PGI will oblige and everyone will say "Wow it sure is nice now that PGI listens to the community!"

At that point I guess we'll be playing the only Mech sim on the market, Hawken. Or hopefully Star Citizen. Then we can start the healing process and forget about PGI and their distasteful nonsense. 8/20/13 - The day Mechwarrior died.

Edited by Salient, 28 August 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[McTschegsn]

Why not forcing 12 vs 12 to 1 PV and leave the Hardcore Mode in the Options?
Voted -> No

[soarra]

McTschegsn, on 28 August 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

Why not forcing 12 vs 12 to 1 PV and leave the Hardcore Mode in the Options?
Voted -> No

Be careful they might interpret no as you are happy with 3pv

[Morang]

Keep pressure, guys. They waver. Both this attempt to quickly extract more cash from end-of-year content with Saber addon, and this poll after they already have stated the great success of 3PV in bumping new players influx and retention, and this moderatorial crackdown show their fear - of having bad press at launch, of being responsible before IGP for Phoenix refunds, of alienating their established audience. Just keep pressure. Forums should be full of reminds about their lies, servers should be empty. Maintain momentum for a month, past official launch, until "Launch Event". If we can, they will fold like a well oiled deckchair and I hope that will teach them something for good.

[Particle Man]

Wolfways, on 28 August 2013 - 11:11 PM, said:

So your whole argument is that you can see the drone? You can't always see it. It may be hard (or even impossible) to hide it when looking over a ridge, but in a city map for example i could be standing behind a building, looking up the roads on either side of it watching for anyone coming, and there's no way you can see the drone behind the building. On comms i give my team your position and what mech you're using and any visible damage. They flank you.
Without 3pv noone would have even known you were there unless someone got line of sight to you, which also gives you line of sight to them, both able to shoot at each other.

In the past week i've had a few kills by watching someone until they turn their back to me. I hit F4, move behind them, and blow out their rear armour.

your line of sight while in 3pv is from the drone, if you can see me with the drone, i can see the drone. assuming i'm looking that way and am observant.

Quote

In the past week i've had a few kills by watching someone until they turn their back to me. I hit F4, move behind them, and blow out their rear armour.

well good for you, you;ve resorted to exploiting the game in order to win. What will you do if you get your way and they take it out? you'll have to fight honorably again! I guess some people just cant help themselves though. "Why wouldnt I cheat if it doesnt stop me from doing it?!?!"

it;s just a bunch of "Look at how much of a problem I'm making this! how dare you!"


and to top it all off, i'm on your side. take the damn thing out.

Edited by Particle Man, 28 August 2013 - 11:20 PM.

[FiveDigits]

I'd like to applaud you for two things:

• Coming up with a good short-term solution for the conflicting interests of your core audience (organized, 1PV) and the need to broaden your audience (PUG, 3PV).
  
• Actually involving the community instead of "keeping development closer to your chest" as threatened announced recently.

[ryoma]

Particle Man, on 28 August 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

your line of sight while in 3pv is from the drone, if you can see me with the drone, i can see the drone. assuming i'm looking that way and am observant.



well good for you, you;ve resorted to exploiting the game in order to win. What will you do if you get your way and they take it out? you'll have to fight honorably again! I guess some people just cant help themselves though. "Why wouldnt I cheat if it doesnt stop me from doing it?!?!"

it;s just a bunch of "Look at how much of a problem I'm making this! how dare you!"


and to top it all off, i'm on your side. take the damn thing out.

Exactly this. 3PV allows a significant advantage in combat.

[Particle Man]

ryoma, on 28 August 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Exactly this. 3PV allows a significant advantage in combat.

its an insignificant advantage, but it's obviously more trouble than its worth.

take it out of the game proper and throw it into the training room. Thats what thats supposedly for anyway, training. just like they claim the 3pv is to learn to pilot your mechs, not to peek over hills and around corners.

"train" people how their legs point in the "training room"

Edited by Particle Man, 28 August 2013 - 11:28 PM.

[Wolfways]

Particle Man, on 28 August 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

well good for you, you;ve resorted to exploiting the game in order to win. What will you do if you get your way and they take it out? you'll have to fight honorably again! I guess some people just cant help themselves though. "Why wouldnt I cheat if it doesnt stop me from doing it?!?!"and to top it all off, i'm on your side. take the damn thing out.

I've used it in about a dozen matches to test it. You know, beta testing like we're supposed to be doing. I found out what it's like and stopped using it. I don't like using cheats in games, ever, even in single player games.

[Ewigan]

I am aware and ok with that stjobe, cause i do not have that many problems with 3PV.
it would give scouts in an 12 vs 12 environment to much of an advanatge, but in pugs?

it doesn't really matter there, cause when i am pugging i do not play to win at all costs, but to have fun.

[Wolfways]

Particle Man, on 28 August 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

and to top it all off, i'm on your side. take the damn thing out.

Sorry, forgot to mention...I don't want it removed. If it brings in more customers then great (although at this point i just want the game to do well, not especially PGI). All i want is for players to have a choice, as was promised.

[stjobe]

Particle Man, on 28 August 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

its an insignificant advantage, but it's obviously more trouble than its worth.

take it out of the game proper and throw it into the training room. Thats what thats supposedly for anyway, training. just like they claim the 3pv is to learn to pilot your mechs, not to peek over hills and around corners.

"train" people how their legs point in the "training room"

Just to clarify my like of your post; it's to the second part, not the first. 3PV is a real and significant advantage, especially to teams on voice comms but also to single PUG players.

I liked your post because I agree 3PV should be a Training Grounds-only feature.

[ryoma]

Anyone have that youtube video of the Cicada with 2 PPCs? The one in which he uses 3PV to wreck a ton of face.

[Praehotec8]

This is the minimum that should occur. As a solo player, I would like a queue for 1pv only matches in PUG games, at least once CW comes into effect. The main issue here is that a company (or person) should not make blanket statements/promises and then change them. I think we as a community, with this implemented, can get past the current drama. However, it's very important that promises are not broken. Don't promise if you feel you can't, but keeping your word is a matter of integrity for EVERYONE. That is one thing that can make or break a company's reputation and its success.

[csebal]

Particle Man, on 28 August 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

..

Besides the fact, that while you might not care for 3PV yourself, for some (including myself), 3PV breaks the immersion and as such lessens the experience.

Most people who bought the various packs did so based on how the game played and what was promised. Now I'm not saying, that some changes are unexpected, especially not in a game that is still in beta, BUT: the way you look out of the friggin cockpit is a core element of how the game plays. Turning an 1PV game into a 3PV one changes the core gameplay feel, and suddenly you are playing an arcade shooter instead of a simulator.

THATS A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENCE to stomach, after having paid close to 200 bucks for the game.

So yea.. I'm happy that you are not affected by the ongoing 3PV issues at all, but others are not that lucky and you would do good to try and keep that in mind.

[Steinar Bergstol]

No. I will not vote yes to this because you've managed to attach in the "small print" a justification to remove hardcore mode from all other queues. Basically hoping people would just read the post title and not the explanation itself. This is practically the same thing as politicians attaching an unpopular bill to a bigger, more popular one and getting it passed by proxy.

So, no. I will only vote on this if it _only_ concerns the 12 vs 12 queue and has no bearing on whether other queues will or will not have 1pv only modes.

Stop being sneaky, be it on purpose or not. Being honest and upfront about things would serve you far better and cause far less hostile reactions among the community. This poll should have the title "Limit 12 v 12 pre made group matches to 1pv only AND REMOVE 1PV MODE ONLY AS AN OPTION FOR ALL OTHER QUEUES" if you want to be honest about what you are doing.

[Frenchtoastman]

stjobe, on 28 August 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

To those voting yes:

I sincerely hope you realize that by voting yes, you're also voting yes to

• The public queues will remain a mix of 1PV and 3PV modes
  
• Hardcore mode will be removed from the drop down list.

If you don't agree to this, the only way to show it is to remove your vote.


This is the sneakiest, most underhanded way of doing a poll imaginable; it's quite common in politics, where an unpopular or divisive question is (usually at the last minute, after debate) added to a popular or non-divisive vote as a "rider", so that anyone voting yes to the easy, popular, and straightforward question is also voting yes to the more divisive or unpopular option.

Shame on you PGI for not just asking the simple question.

I really wish this ^ was the first response/post in this thread. ..Perfect.

[Angelrage]

Hello.
I try to be helpfull pgi

If you try to contact us finally plz dont do that like this, your poll is generally bad, the vote options are bad.

99.8% of our gametime is not in 12premade, you know that more than me right?
I want to play a BT:MW 1pv simulator in the rest of my playtime too.

You are the developer, you need to solve problems generally you made, but to chose from two bad thing wont solve this.

(i deleted my vote)

Edited by Angelrage, 29 August 2013 - 02:08 AM.