29 replies to this topic

[Kanatta Jing]

Just put it in. Let MASC capable mechs break the speed cap.

Yes, they'll be protected by lag shield. Yes, the forum will fill with tears. Yes, Assault pilots will threaten to commit suicide in protest.

But, whatever. They'll do that anyway.

We've played this game with invincible lights before.

LRMs will have steady and strong locks will be king of damage.

Pilots will flounder until eventually the Flea or Locust will hit a wall, sharp incline or another mech and death will be swift and terrible.

Or being MASC, one of the legs will break. Because that's how MASC works.

Or they'll be gunned down by streak cats. Because hunting lights is why we built the streak cat.

It's fine.

[FupDup]

Honestly, I can foresee PGI just giving MASC the Command Console treatment if they really get too lazy with the speed cap.

[Mcgral18]

Why don't we test this on the PTS....and, you know, test stuff.

[PEEFsmash]

MASC should not involve diceroll leg damage/explosion. That would be completely stupid, even at a low rate. I'm not going to use MASC if I might just have my leg blow up unpredictably. MASC should slowly increase heat, and once that heat reaches 100%, if MASC is still engaged, the mech should start taking damage to both legs internals at a rate of 1 damage per second.

I think MASC should increase heat at a rate of about .5 heat per second. Keep in mind how it will be basically impossible to fight and use MASC at the same time due to that heat level. It will be used to escape or return to base, and won't be making lights invincible during fights because it won't be possible to use it in fights.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 01 September 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[KharnZor]

PEEFsmash, on 01 September 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

MASC should not involve diceroll leg damage/explosion. That would be completely stupid, even at a low rate. I'm not going to use MASC if I might just have my leg blow up unpredictably. MASC should slowly increase heat, and once that heat reaches 100%, if MASC is still engaged, the mech should start taking damage to both legs internals at a rate of 1 damage per second.

I think MASC should increase heat at a rate of about .5 heat per second. Keep in mind how it will be basically impossible to fight and use MASC at the same time due to that heat level. It will be used to escape or return to base, and won't be making lights invincible during fights because it won't be possible to use it in fights.

Makes too much sense therefore will not make it into the game. Will most likely be some dice roll rubish

[Khobai]

so you want to handicap a 20 ton mech even more than it already is? the only way the flea is gonna be even remotely viable is if masc is good. and the locust well just wont be viable ever.

[Kanatta Jing]

I was thinking of maybe a (weight/20)/10 chance every second of a random leg taking 1 point of leg damage.

[Lexx]

I think if we put in MASC there should be a percentage chance to freeze the leg actuators and leg the mech using for the remainder of the match. The longer you keep it on, the more likely it is to leg you.

[General Taskeen]

PEEFsmash, on 01 September 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

MASC should not involve diceroll leg damage/explosion. That would be completely stupid, even at a low rate. I'm not going to use MASC if I might just have my leg blow up unpredictably. MASC should slowly increase heat, and once that heat reaches 100%, if MASC is still engaged, the mech should start taking damage to both legs internals at a rate of 1 damage per second.

I can imagine the roll the dice MASC now.

->I'm going own in this MASC Flea with less than 100 points of armor!*
->"Oh {Scrap}, an assault Mech with aC/20's, better engage the MASC to make a quick dodge, yeh!"
*ENGAGE THE MASC*
*GAME ROLL DICE ENGAGED - 2D6 - MASC FOREVER GONE SORRY*
"WTF!"
*Dies to 12 man alpha strike*

In all seriousness, it should just be like MW4 or MW:LL. The longer it is engaged, the more heat it builds up, and once you are in critical heat zone - that's when some of the "random" flavor can be mixed in - use it to long in critical heat and poof its gone and your leg is damaged.


In other words like the video below - Too much MASC Overheating = face full of dirt for Dasher.

Edited by General Taskeen, 01 September 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Lexx, on 01 September 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

I think if we put in MASC there should be a percentage chance to freeze the leg actuators and leg the mech using for the remainder of the match. The longer you keep it on, the more likely it is to leg you.

That is the battletech way of doing it. Without thinking what would happen if you snapped your leg in the first round of combat. It's too random and too sudden.

A higher chance of gradual damage gives the pilot warning that sudden leg failure is imminent.

Equipment that people don't use when the situation calls for it is just bad design.

[Khobai]

Quote

I think if we put in MASC there should be a percentage chance to freeze the leg actuators and leg the mech using for the remainder of the match. The longer you keep it on, the more likely it is to leg you.

Nope. Thats stupid. Why would you pilot a flea if you could randomly leg your mech for using the only advantage you have?

Quote

It will be used to escape or return to base, and won't be making lights invincible during fights because it won't be possible to use it in fights.

Again how does that help the flea? MASC is its only advantage... and youre saying it cant use it in combat? Its already inferior to a Jenner in combat in every way.

Edited by Khobai, 01 September 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[Livewyr]

PEEFsmash, on 01 September 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

MASC should not involve diceroll leg damage/explosion. That would be completely stupid, even at a low rate. I'm not going to use MASC if I might just have my leg blow up unpredictably. MASC should slowly increase heat, and once that heat reaches 100%, if MASC is still engaged, the mech should start taking damage to both legs internals at a rate of 1 damage per second.

I think MASC should increase heat at a rate of about .5 heat per second. Keep in mind how it will be basically impossible to fight and use MASC at the same time due to that heat level. It will be used to escape or return to base, and won't be making lights invincible during fights because it won't be possible to use it in fights.

I like the idea a lot(although at 100% you shut down anyways, perhaps at 90%?)

Dice roll effects should be at a minimum IMO.

[Artgathan]

Kanatta Jing, on 01 September 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

Yes, they'll be protected by lag shield.

I don't think the issue with the speed cap was that it would lead to lag, I think it was more that it would cause Cryengine to break.

That said, if it just causes lag that's fine.

I'd like to see MASC put in, sans the random chance to be permanently crippled. Peef's suggestion was pretty solid on how to handle it.

Alternatively, MASC could have it's own little bar (like jumpjets); if you fully deplete the bar you run at a reduced top speed until it refills.

[Livewyr]

Artgathan, on 01 September 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Alternatively, MASC could have it's own little bar (like jumpjets); if you fully deplete the bar you run at a reduced top speed until it refills.

Also a good idea. (Although I might add that the farther the bar is drained, the slower it refills.)

[Khobai]

The way MASC should work is pretty simple. MASC should have a gauge, much like the jumpjet fuel gauge, and when you activate MASC the gauge should start going down. Once the gauge reaches zero, your legs start taking internal damage gradually. When MASC is switched off the gauge would replenish itself in the same way jumpjets do.

That allows MASC to be combat viable, which it absolutely should be, because its the only thing the poor flea has in its favor.

[Mister Blastman]

I love Masc!



... err... Mask.

[RedThirteen]

Movement animations in MW4, whilst a little jittery, seem so much more appealing than what we deal with in this game. :| Old stuff

[TheMadTypist]

From I understand of the MASC balance-related issues that held it back, (rather than the netcode issues, which may or may not be fixed) it wasn't the application on lights that was really the problem. It was the heavier 'mechs going faster and faster and trying to keep that from obsoleting lights or fast mediums, while still leaving MASC worthwhile. If they haven't solved that already, then we might have a problem.

If they have though, as far as your suggestion goes of just implementing it anyway- sure, just fix the bug where a mech will only stop temporarily if you collide with it before teleporting through you. Yes, this still happens. Getting body-blocked should have the same effect on momentum that clipping a building or faceplanting a cliff does right now.

[FupDup]

TheMadTypist, on 01 September 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

From I understand of the MASC balance-related issues that held it back, (rather than the netcode issues, which may or may not be fixed) it wasn't the application on lights that was really the problem. It was the heavier 'mechs going faster and faster and trying to keep that from obsoleting lights or fast mediums, while still leaving MASC worthwhile. If they haven't solved that already, then we might have a problem.

If they have though, as far as your suggestion goes of just implementing it anyway- sure, just fix the bug where a mech will only stop temporarily if you collide with it before teleporting through you. Yes, this still happens. Getting body-blocked should have the same effect on momentum that clipping a building or faceplanting a cliff does right now.

You solve that issue by restricting it to specific units like ECM (the units which will have specific weaknesses to counteract the ability to mount MASC).

Edited by FupDup, 01 September 2013 - 07:17 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

You fix the MASC balance issues the same way the ECM balance issues was solved. A yes or no switch on if they can fit the MASC at all.