184 replies to this topic

[Major Bill Curtis]

Lt muffins, on 13 June 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Edit: this cant be right Sarna say that this weapon get 4 shots per ton of ammo.

That is correct: heavy gauss gets 4 shots per ton of ammo. The gun also weighs 18 tons, has a very narrow "sweet spot," and takes up 11 spaces. In many ways, the regular old Gauss Rifle is better.

[Frostiken]

Alexander Caine, on 16 June 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

This argument is still retarded until it is specified to be about 1 particular system. Different people comparing different mechs across different formats with different criteria (stock or not) makes this just ludicrous.

TT: Atlas is better if you compare contemporary variants, not the old 7D or 7Ks
MW4: Fafnir is better
MWO: Atlas is better, because it exists.

That makes Atlas win 2 out of 3 as far as I can tell.

MWLL: Fafnir is better, but only because Atlas is gimped and CBT rules were thrown out the window when it came to making HGauss.

[Tim East]

I'm gonna lean toward Atlas. I could swear there was a variant of this thing with jump jets.

[Teralitha]

Alexander Caine, on 16 June 2012 - 05:09 AM, said:

This argument is still retarded until it is specified to be about 1 particular system. Different people comparing different mechs across different formats with different criteria (stock or not) makes this just ludicrous.

TT: Atlas is better if you compare contemporary variants, not the old 7D or 7Ks
MW4: Fafnir is better
MWO: Atlas is better, because it exists.

That makes Atlas win 2 out of 3 as far as I can tell.

Actually in MW4, the atlas was better. I also liked the fafnir in MW4, but only in certain terrains. Atlas was always my first choice.

[TKG]

reported, on 16 June 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

You tell me this is limited other than the lasers, which are meant to be used at mid range and can still go beyond 500m with good aiming, and we fight. Right now.
The DPS and overall performance of a Fafnir depends on how you tune it, and I don't remember being able to do this with any other Mech, specially not Omnis.

And for the record, I get more microability from this thing than any of your default or stripped + butchered ****. Bring your archaic FATLAS and Longbows with you, I'll show you how it's done.

Well that's easy one; first thats MW4 mercs and second, I dont recall any official fafnir being armed that way so you made a custom. Anyone can make a custom to break the nature of a debate. Hell If I proposed my Mechwarrior RPG character's Atlas for this debate your fafnir would cry and kick itself in the fusion reactor until it exploded. Customs are not valid we're talking design versus design, only TRO confirmed models do for the constext of fairness and equity.

Frostiken, on 16 June 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

MWLL: Fafnir is better, but only because Atlas is gimped and CBT rules were thrown out the window when it came to making HGauss.

>edited for apparent censored word..
Your credibility just comitted suicide. Might wanna call the cops and get that cleaned up before rush hour.

Edited by TKG, 16 June 2012 - 11:00 PM.

[Hellgardia]

It would be a very toe-to-toe match considering similar timeline variants.

Still, since the Fafnir is my personal favorite, i would go with it.

Edited by Aniquilator6, 16 June 2012 - 11:57 PM.

[Elsior]

Fafnir because it looks much better than Atlas.

[Armored Yokai]

2 heavy gauss vs a gauss and lrm 20 atlas wins if it stayed past the dumbnnirs range
ps atlas looks better than dumbnir

Edited by Cementblade, 17 June 2012 - 05:00 AM.

[Ettibber]

Bandaids, on 13 June 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

That 's a valid point but the fafnir COULD potentially kill it before it even gets close, a Raven could be it's worst enemy due to the flame thrower and unrivaled speed

unrivaled speed? i do say, you are forgetting something...the dasher! with a sweet sweet 10/15(20) movement. But i will assume you were thinking of inner sphere only because, screw the clans.

[Alexander Caine]

Ettibber, on 17 June 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

unrivaled speed? i do say, you are forgetting something...the dasher! with a sweet sweet 10/15(20) movement. But i will assume you were thinking of inner sphere only because, screw the clans.

Eh, even if you look at IS only the Raven is NOT a fast light mech. Hell, there are some mediums faster, and the grand Dragon is the same speed!

[Ettibber]

Tincan Nightmare, on 14 June 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

Well how the clans fight wars are different then how the IS fights wars, basically its all about duels, wether between two warriors or two clusters, with the victor getting the predetermined prize. If Clan Wolf wants a factory from Clan Snow Raven, they send a force over to issue a challenge, the place and time are set, and both sides declare what troops and equipment they are bringing. Yah when the SLDF got to the clan worlds fighting did breakout amongst some of the troops, but it was on a much smaller scale and only lasted for a comparatively short time (at least compared to the succession wars.) In the IS, nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons were being used widely during the first succession war, as well as orbital bombardment by warships. Each nation targeted important worlds that possessed the industrial infrastructure to produce warships and mechs, usually nuking the plants out of existence. As far as the scientific community, Comstar used the wars as cover for an assassination plot specifically targeting engineers and scientists. Now I'm not saying that could realistically happen, since were talking about hundreds of worlds, but for suspension of disbelief its a least a 'decent' excuse .

Though honestly I just want to blow things up with my giant mech, I could care less about the 'why' of everything .

i would argue that, they compare the time after alexsandr's death and nicholas forming the clans as more destruction then the 4 succession wars combined. they also ended up killing off 99% of their population.

[ZOU]

Atlas for me, just looks so cool

[LeTigre]

I think this one got off to a bad start...Atlas vs Fafnir means that the pilots are making a choice for 20 years down the road. Fafnir's aren't even being thought of yet and by the time they do come along, there will have been so many variants and custom build outs of Atlas that there wil be literally hundreds of configurations to choose from. However, when the Fafnir does arrive, you have a modern weapons platform built with the best technology of its day. A modern day comparison would be to consider a tank from Korea and add every potential upgrade you can think of over the intervening years and go vs the M1 Abrams. These kind of match ups occured in Iraq in both the 1st and second time and the Russian built T72s were more than outclassed. Absolutely take the Fafnir even over the most upgraded and enhanced Atlas anyday!

[Ettibber]

Alexander Caine, on 17 June 2012 - 05:47 AM, said:

Eh, even if you look at IS only the Raven is NOT a fast light mech. Hell, there are some mediums faster, and the grand Dragon is the same speed!

maybe he should have said the spider with the 8/12/8 movement, yeah one shot from the atlas means you are toast but...it's gonna be hell for him to get you.

[Alexander Caine]

LeTigre, on 17 June 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

I think this one got off to a bad start...Atlas vs Fafnir means that the pilots are making a choice for 20 years down the road. Fafnir's aren't even being thought of yet and by the time they do come along, there will have been so many variants and custom build outs of Atlas that there wil be literally hundreds of configurations to choose from. However, when the Fafnir does arrive, you have a modern weapons platform built with the best technology of its day. A modern day comparison would be to consider a tank from Korea and add every potential upgrade you can think of over the intervening years and go vs the M1 Abrams. These kind of match ups occured in Iraq in both the 1st and second time and the Russian built T72s were more than outclassed. Absolutely take the Fafnir even over the most upgraded and enhanced Atlas anyday!

Honestly, it's not at all the same as your comparison.
The M1 is the product of much higher technology, in armour, speed, and weaponry. Every component is simply more advanced, in every way.

Battletech doesn't work like real life...the Atlas from the era of the Fafnir uses the EXACT same quality of component and engineering as the Fafnir. I realise that it makes no sense, but BT tech flat out just makes no sense at times.

Hell, a 3025 era LRM 20 is exactly as good as a 3075 era one, go figure.

So i'm afraid your logic breaks because it's too logical

[WoollyMimmoth]

A bit OT question about the Fafnir. How does it aim those two monster H Gauss. I mean, if you look at the Fafnir artwork then they look sort of built into a fixed position. Wouldn't that mean that the shots from the two HGauss shouldn't be able to converge, ever. Or alternatively that they should only be able to converge at one specific distance that was built in when the mech was created? That would mean that it would be almost impossible to land two HGauss slugs to the same area of an enemy mech. Note: I'm not asking about how it was actually implemented in for example MW4 or in TT for that matter. I'm just looking at the art and I can't figure out how it would work. Anybody got a good explanation?



Those big cannons look fixed to me.

[Alexander Caine]

I don't think there is a good explanation. It's a flawed design in many ways (BT and fluff here, not MW4). I honestly can't see ANY way those HGauss would be able to converge properly, especially at close range (which ironically is the place there are effective).

[Schrecken]

fafnir is 20 years away, go away troll.

[Haroldwolf]

The Atlas stock weapons were designed to be dangerous at any range. As others have said, the Fafnir is a long range fighter and is a little weaker at close range. I think it depends, on an open plain probably the Fafnir wins and in a urban or rolling hills environment the Atlas probably wins. That assumes equal pilot skills, a skilled Mechwarrior will win against a kiddie every time.

[TKG]

Haroldwolf, on 17 June 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

The Atlas stock weapons were designed to be dangerous at any range. As others have said, the Fafnir is a long range fighter and is a little weaker at close range. I think it depends, on an open plain probably the Fafnir wins and in a urban or rolling hills environment the Atlas probably wins. That assumes equal pilot skills, a skilled Mechwarrior will win against a kiddie every time.

Thats half the debate, the fafnir is NOT a long range fighter as it's weapons become less effective with distance, if anything it does it's best at short range were all it's weapons can theoretically inflict maximum damage. You need to ignore MW4's incorrect use of heavy guass that do the same damage at all ranges, it's plain wrong, and one of many places micro$haft cut corners. Another error was upside down and reversed kodiak torso hitbox problem and the faulty bot lattices.