71 replies to this topic

[Lyrik]

Koniving, on 31 August 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Minus double blind rules, ECM granted the abilities of Stealth Armor, Angel ECM, and Guardian ECM all at the same time in its original form. It still grants Stealth Armor.

As an Old School Battletech player I don't care about that. I even wouldn't care about if a Large Laser would do 86,568 Damage and a Medium Laser only 50,0587 Damage.
For true Battletech fans it was never about the numbers but more about the "feeling" for the setting. As stupid as it was xD

And PGI never lied. I still have an fun Mechgame. Now... better graphic, less bugs, CW and more maps would be amazing xD

[Void Angel]

Koniving, on 31 August 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Minus double blind rules, ECM granted the abilities of Stealth Armor, Angel ECM, and Guardian ECM all at the same time in its original form. It still grants Stealth Armor.

Sure, but it's the double blind rules we're actually playing with, so to speak. Double blind is trying to simulate the kind of matches we have in MWO - albeit in a much different format.

[Muffin Stump]

Koniving, on 31 August 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Yeah... That bobbing crosshair should be in first person too.

Lol.

ps - only insightful comment in this thread was Void briefly mentioning thomas theorem and getting close to the whole meta snowball/prevalence/bandwagon/self-fulfilling prophecy thing

rest is agenda stuff like that quote above or rehashed stuff that can be searched

Edited by Muffin Stump, 31 August 2013 - 04:32 PM.

[Koniving]

Lyrik, on 31 August 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

As an Old School Battletech player I don't care about that. I even wouldn't care about if a Large Laser would do 86,568 Damage and a Medium Laser only 50,0587 Damage.
For true Battletech fans it was never about the numbers but more about the "feeling" for the setting. As stupid as it was xD

And PGI never lied. I still have an fun Mechgame. Now... better graphic, less bugs, CW and more maps would be amazing xD

Indeed, the ECM is manageable now. It's just what are they going to do when it comes time to bring in stealth armor?

My main gripe is the alpha-strike abuse-worthy capacity system which required the penalty band-aid, and the fact that weak weapons like large lasers take 4.25 seconds to fire again when strong weapons like PPCs (pinpoint, instant damage + superior range) takes only 4 seconds. Considering their higher heat and beam times, lasers should be able to fire at least half as fast as ballistic weapons.

(No, I don't mean shorter beam times, I mean shorter wait times via shorter cooldowns).

[Void Angel]

Rushyo, on 31 August 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

MEANWHILE... back on topic....
Our handsome protagonist is getting ready to type a reply:

But I wasn't typing anything.

[Void Angel]

Koniving, on 31 August 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

That keeps happening to me too. It's been getting annoying. Not that there's anything wrong with that group...

Except the ineffectual leadership and constant civil war?

[Tincan Nightmare]

Void Angel, on 31 August 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Kinda. It's actually VERY close to the double-blind TT rules. A few slight variances, but the double blind rules had sensor spotting rules in them - which ECM affected. In fact, ECM is less powerful in some ways than the TT version. In tabletop, ECM magically affected anyone whose line of sight passed through the ECM sphere.

Honestly, I believe the TT version is less powerful, since mechs are still targetable even with ECM. In TT if you have an LRM on a mech with Artemis and fire at an ECM equipped mech (or as you point out a mech that makes your shot pass through the ECM bubble) you lose the benefit of Artemis but otherwise the shot is unaffected. In MWO you cannot lock onto that mech unless someone (or you if carrying one) hits it with a TAG. That's a pretty powerful advantage for the MWO version. Mostly the TT Guardian ECM was mostly just a way to shot off enemy bonuses from NARC, TAG, and Artemis, and to make Streaks behave like normal SRM's. PGI just gave their version some serious boosts in ability, and makes me wonder (and fear) what will happen if they ever introduce the more advanced Angel ECM.

[Liquid Leopard]

Royalewithcheese, on 31 August 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I'd advise getting something that can direct-fire snipe and using a lot of cover...

That's one of the virtues of the Cataphract with 2 PPCs and a Gauss rifle.
You use the energy hardpoints on the torso, so the PPCs are mounted up high. They're above the cockpit so if you can see over the terrain, you can shoot over it.
If you're using the CTF-3D, you can have jump jets, and the Gauss rifle can go in the arm and leave you room for an XL engine. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b304a5ad19e67f7

If you use some other Cataphract, you have to put your ballistic weapon in the Right Torso, and you either give up the XL engine, or have to use a smaller ballistic weapon. In other words, it's significantly less awesome.

The PPCs can shoot well beyond the range of LRMs, and they have the bonus ability to short out a target's ECM for 4 seconds.

[Nightcrept]

@op

Avoid lrm's like the plague. Worst weapon in the game currently.


Make builds that use any of the following weapons.

Ssrm's
Srm-6 or 4
AC-20
Uac-5
AC-2
Erppc
ppc
ML

Stay away from the rest of the weapons unless you have a specific plan in mind.

Then you hide from the enemy until any noobs on their team rush out at your team. At which point you kill them and then wait for the pre-made on the other team to kill you or vice versa. Just don't be one of the clowns who rushes out and you'll at least get a kill or two.


Edit.

Lrm's can be good at kill stealing. The don't deal enough damage on their own to really be viable otherwise. But if you can monitor the enemy as your team is engaged and time your shots according to enemies getting ready to die you will in many cases still a few kills per game. Otherwise lrms aren't good to use.

Edited by Nightcrept, 31 August 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[Kattspya]

BrianLocke, on 31 August 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

And have you been forced to use 3pv against other players? Just because you misread the statement, doesn't make it a lie...

Just as grammar or syntax might be hard, reading is also hard. I would like to direct your attention to the bolded part of the quote.

"Players will never be forced to use or play against other players using 3rd person"

[Nightcrept]

Kattspya, on 31 August 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

Just as grammar or syntax might be hard, reading is also hard. I would like to direct your attention to the bolded part of the quote.

"Players will never be forced to use or play against other players using 3rd person"

3pv has few advantages over 1pv. It's the ability to switch in game on the fly that is the advantage.

[Kattspya]

Nightcrept, on 31 August 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

3pv has few advantages over 1pv. It's the ability to switch in game on the fly that is the advantage.

I agree that that applies currently but that doesn't affect the lie which is what I was discussing.

[Void Angel]

Oh shut up. "It's a lie! They lied to us! We didn't get our way because of the lies!" They made a promise they shouldn't have made out of a desire to please loud forum trolls. Do they now "stick with their guns, no matter what," even though they've found that insisting on first-person makes it much harder for new players to learn the game? They told us why they went back on that ill-considered guarantee, they apologized for it, and their reasons make sense. Get over yourself and drive on - to another game if need be.

[Void Angel]

For that matter, a lie requires a deliberate falsehood. PGI meant it when they told us that we wouldn't have to mingle with 3PV. Certainly they went back on that promise, but calling that a lie... well, that makes a liar out of you. Quit it.

[Tolkien]

Void Angel, on 31 August 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

For that matter, a lie requires a deliberate falsehood. PGI meant it when they told us that we wouldn't have to mingle with 3PV. Certainly they went back on that promise, but calling that a lie... well, that makes a liar out of you. Quit it.

Just to ruffle your once again Marik feathers (you're showing up as Marik again, as am I....)

If you go to dictionary.com and look up the definition of lie, of the first 3 definitions 2 require intent, but the third most common usage is "3. an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood."

By this definition we are all liars, but the difference between our lies and the 3pv one is that noone gave us money to not make 3pv

[Muffin Stump]

Liquid Leopard, on 31 August 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

If you're using the CTF-3D, you can have jump jets, and the Gauss rifle can go in the arm and leave you room for an XL engine. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b304a5ad19e67f7

If you use some other Cataphract, you have to put your ballistic weapon in the Right Torso, and you either give up the XL engine, or have to use a smaller ballistic weapon. In other words, it's significantly less awesome.

The PPCs can shoot well beyond the range of LRMs, and they have the bonus ability to short out a target's ECM for 4 seconds.

Wrong.

Use a STD engine - it's a much more legitimate build for competitive play.

The XL build is better suited for stuff like solo tournies, which necessitate the use of higher risk vs reward playstyles (like, say, speed for survability)... think getting into position a few secs early to tag a final assist on that last enemy, etc...

...point is, you can mount all 3 weps up top for maximum tartage using a STD... and when everyone else you're fighting is a quality top player, walking around in a mech that gets shouldered in 2 shots (thus dies) cuz it's using an XL... well, that's simply too much risk in serious matches.

Edited by Muffin Stump, 01 September 2013 - 02:31 AM.

[Kattspya]

Void Angel, on 31 August 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

Oh shut up. "It's a lie! They lied to us! We didn't get our way because of the lies!" They made a promise they shouldn't have made out of a desire to please loud forum trolls. Do they now "stick with their guns, no matter what," even though they've found that insisting on first-person makes it much harder for new players to learn the game? They told us why they went back on that ill-considered guarantee, they apologized for it, and their reasons make sense. Get over yourself and drive on - to another game if need be.

"Players will never be forced to use or play against other players using 3rd person"

Edit: I know cognitive dissonance is painful so just step out of your armor and join us.

Edited by Kattspya, 01 September 2013 - 03:15 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

basically nothing has happend that positive..as the devs are still trying to turn this into a console game..just look on wiki to see what they've worked on..they thought they were good enough for the big boy league and have failed resulting in this mess you are now playing.

[Reno Blade]

I think this whole threat derailed. It was not about the curent state of forum hate, but gameplay.
And gameplay is pretty good, compared to the forums.

Tolkien, on 31 August 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

Hi Tarzilman,

Please understand that I am not trying to flame anyone, I'm just trying to make sure people know what people can expect in terms of feature delivery and rate of progress before they spend their money around here. I have been in the game since closed beta in June 2012, so I have been here 1 year longer than you (2 months).

Those articles cover many of the issues that have created the "bitter vets" or as you call me "black knight/sabotage crew". Please be aware that up until the 3pv patch I was a 'white knight' in the sense of still trying to get friends into the game. Now not so much.

In those articles I posted you'll see that it's not just 3pv that is a problem, it's just that 3pv is the most recent and most egregious example of the devs explicitly going back on a statement to the community about what would be in the game. If you are spending your money based on what the game 'will be' this is a problem since it now means you can't trust any specific feature the devs promise will/won't be in will actually make it in.

Examples of other letdowns to founders.

1) Consumables won't be in (consumables are in and they had a real money advantage for coolshot when it first came out)
2) Clans would show up when they are supposed to on the calendar (June). Now the calendar is frozen and the clans are not in.
3) Community warfare will be in within 90 days of open beta (November). So we are several months late on this.
4) Still can't make a lobby to play against friends (coming with UI2.0?)
5) Still no in game voice to help the pugs not get rolled over.

I know I sound bitter, but I think it's with good reason. I would not have bought a founders pack to fund a new mechwarrior game if it had been stated to have 3pv in it, so I feel quite bait and switched.

If these are your "only" concerns, then I can live with that.
These are all "minor" problems (imho).
Beeing late is normal if you have only 40 guys creating a huge game. Other games take 5+ years with 150 man crews.

If you had the choice, would you rather have waited 5 years since they announced MWO, or play for 1 year Open Beta as we could and enjoy the "basic pvp battle" of the game.
(People hype SC and are enjoying the Hangar Module, but if thats all for the next 5 years, would you be happy, or would you like to get the dogfight module even in alpha state?)

The way they communicated is not perfect, but they could have done worse.
Would you prefere to have no communication at all and just get your patches and patchnotes?
Other games are in development for years and you get a trailer or teaser from time to time and have to wait for release.
I'd rather have work in progress game where I can ask and get answers from the Devs than wait desperately for a patch like everywhere else.

The intention of your (and other's) posts/articles may be good from your side, but the result is that people get the worst possible idea of a game that went from "Great" to "Good" not to "super bad" as it sounds.
All these articles are overly negative and emphasize the negative points way more than any mentioned positive points (if mentioned at all).

I don't know what most people want to achive with puthing these articles up. If it's "just to warn" new people, that alone would mean we "lose" customers who didn't even try the game yet.
And I've seen people saying "but we need these negative reviews to FOCE PGI to do ...".
I'd call that even "incite" or "stir up". (spelling?)

Why should founders feel bad because the game evolves and grows? There are no such things as 100% sure.

Is it realy an issue for someone to accept if the game changes to one side they don't expected? Everyone is asking for a lot of stuff and waits and asks until its here. But if one wants exploding chicken and the otherone wants dinosaurs, while the devs wanted cats, what would be the outcome. The devs have an idea, a vision and they strive forwards to get as much done as possible. Most things are pretty easy to guess, but some decisions are/will be made for the future of the game.
Including stuff that we don't know about yet and including decisions that will secure the income of money. Without money this game can't survive either.
It's not just a mod like MWLL.
So Coolant and 3PV were not realy great ideas, but its part of the game now and it will hopefully help to secure more players to give a money base for the game to survive.

Quote

The ghost heat system / heat scale system is a bugbear for many as it broke their favourite builds (boo hoo, not a lot of sympathy here) but also because
1) Good luck explaining it to a beginner.
2) It seems to still have some bugs such as attacking AC2's randomly
3) It penalizes some very odd combinations that no one ever used such as large pulse lasers combined with ER Large Lasers
4) 'Best of luck' making it work with clan tech (e.g. Ultra AC20.....)

The fact that it's not ingame is because of missing UI2.0 which obviously is not done. Nothing else than wait or check the forums (see my sig).

The AC2 "bug" got fixed with the change to the cooldown.
With elite skills this will be at 0.5s and has no heat penalty if shot permanently.
If you shoot the AC2s in a faster way (because you like the way 2-4 AC2s fire in a gattling gun fashion) then the 0.5s for "ghost heat" will raise heat as long as you hold the trigger.
It's very low at the beginning (8%), but that multiplier rises pretty fast after 5-10 shots and a bunch of AC2s can do this very fast.

The linking of all LLasers was a prevention of people going 2+2 of any kind (LL + erLL is happening).
And yes, I saw Stalkers with 2 of each before the linking.

We have no Idea of implementation of Clan tech. But the System is easy to tweak now that it's done. UAc20 will be nasty, but that can be "tweaked" by the base heat. 7 heat for a shot means 14 for double trigger.
Thats nearly CERPPC Heat.

[Elder Thorn]

qki, on 31 August 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

LRMs are no longer the "1 button kill all" weapon they used to be at one point.
You now have 12 opponents, and many players caught on that long range weapons are top of the food chain.

MY AWS-8R sais otherwise...

However, yes OP, the game has changed. And i feel you, i liked the old meta a lot more, too.
Fights took a while, because people where still trying stuff out. Over the time all the builds where maximised in terms of efficiency, which takes us to High Alpha Damage builds - and today it's not as bad as a few weeks ago, when you would peek arround a corner ind instantly loose a limb or even get cored in under 2 seconds.

IMO the worst thing is: Still no CW and still no Collisions. No collisions in 12vs12 means just more lights running arround and blocking the movement of big mechs without any risk at all...

You have seen the rest i guess, the 3pv. I hate it. Not because it's 3pv, because we didn't get the seperated queues. I mean... seriously, we all learned, that 3pv would be comming, ages ago. We didn't want it, but we settled down with it. At least we would have the chance to play in hardcore mode - that's what we thought, now we got 3pv, but no hardcore mode and an excuse of an excuse for that. If you look arround the forums, you will find a lot of shitstorms about this problem. There are some people who are arguing calmly, but i guess most people just gave up on that, as 3pv has been discussed in a mosty clam environment over several months, then we got stuff promissed to us and the a kick to the nuts instead of stuff that was promissed, that's why everyone is pissed and about 80% of the so called veterans SEEM to have lost their minds...

So... welcome back, OP!