10 replies to this topic

[ColourfulConfetti]

Hello, forums, before I got into my proposition, just try to remember to be courteous and respectful regardless of whether you agree or disagree, with that said.

With the Gauss Rifle revealed to be getting a nerf in the form of a charge time, I felt maybe instead of badly nerfing the Gauss, there instead can be a tonnage limit on weapons that inflict all their damage at once, in example, AC 2, Ac 5, Ac 10, AC 20, Gauss Rifle, ER PPCS and PPCS, the reason I include autocannons, is because people are now trying to make dual ppcs and autocannon weapons into the new pinpoint sniper build.

The tonnage limit, which is at 20 tons will come into play whenever an autocannon, Gauss rifle or ppc weapon is added to a mech that already has a Ppc or Gauss rifle. Say if a mech already has dual ppcs (14 tons), adding a AC 10 or Ultra Ac 5 would activate the tonnage limit, though it is possible to add an ac 2 and not activate the tonnage limit. The tonnage limit would not be activated by multiple autocannon weapons that go over 20 tons. In example, dual ac 10s on a Jaggermech (24 tons) or dual lbx 10s on a Ilya muromets (22 tons) are fine because there are no Ppcs or Gauss weapons present on the mech, adding a Ppc to any of the previous mechs listed however, does activate the tonnage limit, since there is now a PPC installed.

If you run a mech with the tonnage limit, you are unable to fire a PPC, Gauss rifle or autocannon weapon at the same time. Trying to fire both at the same time will only allow for the ppcs to be fired while the autocannon/gauss shot will be fireable after a one second delay. (like chainfire).
Firing the ppcs by themselves still triggers this chainfire delay, to ensure there is no way to surpass the tonnage system, same is true with firing an autocannon/gauss only, you will still have to endure the delay if you try to fire the ppcs after you just fired the gauss/autocannon shot. Anyways, that was my balance proposal to the Sniper meta, I personally think its a decent way to phase out the sniper meta without badly nerfing any of the weapons themselves. Looking forward to hearing the forums response

Edited by PalmaRoma, 31 August 2013 - 08:05 AM.

[tuffy963]

Here is the problem... PGI has already announced the fix. They have demonstrated time and again that when they announce these "fixes" that it is no longer open for short term discussion.

In short, your proposition seems reasonable.... just ill-timed. PGI will institute the fix they have stated and will review it at some later date. Better to focus on problems with unannounced fixes. At least you still have an opportunity to influence them...

[ColourfulConfetti]

tuffy963, on 31 August 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

Here is the problem... PGI has already announced the fix. They have demonstrated time and again that when they announce these "fixes" that it is no longer open for short term discussion.

In short, your proposition seems reasonable.... just ill-timed. PGI will institute the fix they have stated and will review it at some later date. Better to focus on problems with unannounced fixes. At least you still have an opportunity to influence them...

Well, I know I sound crazy but I still have some faith PGI will do the right thing, who knows maybe they will keep my idea in mind after their Gauss nerf goes over very badly. I guess I just like to remain hopeful in terribly bad situations, and I'm not entirely convinced PGI is as bad as people say they are. Thanks for your input by the way.

[Tezcatli]

Well it's not a bad idea and it seems simple enough. Though I'd imagine if PGI had come up with it, people would still get pissed and accuse them of insulting their mother.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Tezcatli, on 31 August 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Well it's not a bad idea and it seems simple enough. Though I'd imagine if PGI had come up with it, people would still get pissed and accuse them of insulting their mother.

Yeah, people just like to rage on PGI it seems, like with that whole third person thing, it can be compared to armlock, it gives a slight advantage (better accuracy for armlock, better awareness with third person) , when used, but then again, ANYBODY can use it. In reality it really wasn't a big deal but since PGI was the one who implemented it, everybody threw a tantrum and demonized it. I really wish people would just calm down and give PGI a chance, I know they made some crappy mistakes but really, let us at least give them a chance to rectify the mistakes without being overly critical.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 31 August 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[XANi]

or just make any weapon over 10pt damage add "chainfire" penalty (0.5-1s) AND sway cockpit when firing it, so at longer ranges it would be much harder to hit same spot.

[ColourfulConfetti]

XANi, on 31 August 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

or just make any weapon over 10pt damage add "chainfire" penalty (0.5-1s) AND sway cockpit when firing it, so at longer ranges it would be much harder to hit same spot.

Well I didn't want the chainfire penalty to be so harsh that long range weapons would be at the same ineffective state as closed beta. I just wanted Ppcs to be more like sniper weapons. I'm not against making long ranged weapons having a natural delay when firing with other weapons however. In example, if you fire your long ranged weapons, whether it be two ppcs or a single gauss (my proposed tonnage limit would still apply) it would only fire those weapons and none other and you would have to wait at least a second before you can fire any other weapon of any sort. whether it be a laser based weapon, and srm or an autocannon. Though it does seem a little harsh to long range weapons like the Ppc or Gauss, though they are sniper weapons after all.

The idea of giving long ranged weapons a natural delay when trying to fire others I agree with, though I don't agree other high damage short range weapons like the ac 20 and ac 10 needs to suffer as well. I think they are good as they are right now. The cockpit shake also seems a bit harsh, again I don't want the devs to go full circle with closed beta state of sniper weapons.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 31 August 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[aniviron]

This doesn't seem like it's any less complicated or arbitrary than ghost heat.

I also have to wonder what would happen to mechs with stock configurations that violate these rules like the JM6-S and AWS-8Q, both of which violate your proposed rule system without any modifications.

[ColourfulConfetti]

aniviron, on 31 August 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

This doesn't seem like it's any less complicated or arbitrary than ghost heat.

I also have to wonder what would happen to mechs with stock configurations that violate these rules like the JM6-S and AWS-8Q, both of which violate your proposed rule system without any modifications.

Well Ghost heat could have been made alot simpler and more understandable with an in game explanation, my system I propose should have an in game indicator in the mech lab called, "Long Range Weapon Energy Capacity" this limit dictates how much weapon energy can be given in terms of heavy weapon tonnage before the chainfire penalty can be applied due to lack of mech energy to fire all these high powered long range weapon systems at once. I don't personally view the system as an arbitrary mechanic, and even a simple tooltip can explain this system with ease. It can just say something like, "this is the maximum amount of energy that can be dedicated to high powered long range weapons before the mech must forcibly chain-fire its long range weapon group (ppcs and gauss) and standard weapon group (everything else). Also the JM6-S does not go over the proposed tonnage system, this system will only go into play if somebody added a Gauss or Ppc to the stock Jaggermech S. The awesome however is a a stock build direct from the baord game, and pure tabletop rules have never meshed very well with an fps game. Though, there would be very little change to be honest, with the already implemented ghosts heat you need to chain fire to use those 3 ppcs without inflicting ghost heat anyways.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 31 August 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[ColourfulConfetti]

I would wonder if it is too late for them to reverse the gauss nerf, I'd love for them to give my idea some consideration, or maybe tweak with it a bit to for their standards. Hell, getting anything at all done about this PPC plus gauss/ac combo would be great.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 31 August 2013 - 03:16 PM.

[Foxfire]

Well.. technically, AC's should be stream weapons, not single slug weapons.