146 replies to this topic

[Zolaz]

http://legal-diction...onary.com/fraud

[color=#000000]fraud[/color][color=#000000] n. the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money, property or a legal right. A party who has lost something due to fraud is entitled to file a lawsuit for damages against the party acting fraudulently, and the damages may include punitive damages as a punishment or public example due to the malicious nature of the fraud. Quite often there are several persons involved in a scheme to commit fraud and each and all may be liable for the total damages. Inherent in fraud is an unjust advantage over another which injures that person or entity. It includes failing to point out a known mistake in a contract or other writing (such as a deed), or not revealing a fact which he/she has a duty to communicate, such as a survey which shows there are only 10 acres of land being purchased and not 20 as originally understood. Constructive fraud can be proved by a showing of breach of legal duty (like using the trust funds held for another in an investment in one's own business) without direct proof of fraud or fraudulent intent. Extrinsic fraud occurs when deceit is employed to keep someone from exercising a right, such as a fair trial, by hiding evidence or misleading the opposing party in a lawsuit. (See: [/color]constructive fraud[color=#000000], [/color]extrinsic fraud[color=#000000], [/color]intrinsic fraud[color=#000000], [/color]fraud in the inducement[color=#000000], [/color]fraudulent conveyance[color=#000000]) damages)[/color]

[ssm]

Zolaz, on 02 September 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

fraud n. the intentional use of deceit, a trick or some dishonest means to deprive another of his/her/its money.(...)

Case closed.

Edited by ssm, 02 September 2013 - 02:58 PM.

[Chip Danger]

ssm, on 02 September 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

1) Founders couldn't sustain this game in a long run. Too small in numbers, and regardless of PGI alienating them, they would have burned out. That's life.

2) You're right - if we ever gonna get another BT/MW game, it'll be even more simplified MechAssault, and only If publishers actually bothered and had leftover resources after develping yet another CoD, Madden & console games.

3) I can't imagine more irrelevant thing regarding success (or lack of it) of this game than "forum censorship" (whatever you actually mean by it)

Too small in numbers your joking right? 5mil thats 41,000 people if they all spent $120.

[Riptor]

Rasako, on 02 September 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

have you ever thought about the coming clantech and how ghost heat might be beneficial once the shitstorm that is OP clantech gets into the game? sure the ghost heat system itself is pisspoorly implemented and isn't explained ANYWHERE in the game, but I think it will help with larger issues regarding clantech more than anything, since, you know, they've been testing clantech internally for god knows how long

Boy will you be disapointed when clantech is nothing like it was on the table stats wise.

Only big advantage they will have is their weight reduction compared to IS guns.

[RedDragon]

ssm, on 02 September 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

Case closed.

How is it not intentional when you know you promised something but break that promise nevertheless? Unintentional would be if there was a bug and we could activate 3PV via console or something. Just because the circumstances changed and they now decide to implement 3PV because they want to make more money, doesn't mean that it's unintentional.

[ssm]

RedDragon, on 02 September 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

How is it not intentional when you know you promised something but break that promise nevertheless? Unintentional would be if there was a bug and we could activate 3PV via console or something. Just because the circumstances changed and they now decide to implement 3PV because they want to make more money, doesn't mean that it's unintentional.

Regarding fraud, "intentional" means (roughly) that they knew that they are going to brak promise at the time of making it. (at the time of act); that they actually intended to, i.e. put 3PV into game while telling sb that they won't.

*Potential "fraud" case fails on a lot of levels, I've just isolated one of them (intention)

[mekabuser]

I hate most everything pgi has done but there is no denying that the game continues to improve despite that fact that a huge number of "pilots" are jerks by nature and look to game the system by any and all means possible.
Just about every flavor of the month exploited by such panty wastes has been squashed one way or the other.

FOr those of us who can pilot, and play with a semblance of honor, the game is enjoyable, despite the LATEST jerk off move to hit this game.
The arrival of those who leg constantly.

Despite the hysterical nature of the forums, and yes , i mean you act like a bunch of emotionally unballanced women, the game is enjoyable night after night for me, and many other pilots .
Despite what all you einsteins think, you dont get over 50% of games coming down to the last 3 or 4 guys on each team without doing many things right.

Are a million features missing? yes... we will see. THe basic combat is good. If you die too quick, get better.. If you think you are super awesome and the game is too easy for you, try not using cheese.

[Corvus Antaka]

AriannaPwnographic, on 02 September 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

NOT ONE MORE CENT!!

#savemwo

yeah, because telling people to avoid this game will..save it.

lets be real here. call yourselves #killmwo and maybe you guys will gain more following.

[Solis Obscuri]

Tolkien, on 02 September 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

I am not sure if it is a smear campaign or simply that gaming publications are right to be interested when a game crowdsources funding then breaks promises to the original backers to appeal to a different audience.

It's sleazy and I think that is what has caused it to be picked up on by so many.

It's like that boardgame the guy on kickstarter put together that ran out of money before it went into print so he just spend the money to move to Portland and said 'sorry', but on a smaller scale.

These types of 'founders get screwed' stories are common currency in gaming publications since kickstarting is so damn popular right now. They might be sensationalized but they are topical cautionary tales.

I will acknowledge that there are probably people complaining to these publications which has caused them to run the stories, but that's what upset customers do... they complain.

More to the point, large numbers of upset consumers make news - be it class-action lawsuits against big pharma, boycotts of canned tuna, car owners complaining about "sudden acceleration" problems, etc. from what I've seen the articles haven't been actively taking a side, just making note of the complaints, and in at least one case, some PR failures that exacerbated what could've been minor issues.

[GalaxyBluestar]

****** Cain, on 02 September 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Delusional much?

Spose you're chuffed your founders money went on other games and websites without your consent and pleased with the fact the game has not developed in any single way in over a year towards ANY of the KEY DESIGN PILLARS which were the primary structure for the game?

Role warfare, electronic warfare, community warfare, failed voice integration with C3 , consistent failures in LRMs taking several MONTHS balance, more failures in UI 2.0, DX11, 5.1 Sound, Joystick Support, Knockdown physics, Ragdoll physics, tutorials, repair and rearm abandoned, derelict pilot tree system deemed unfit for purpose then rebranded as having "evolved" into something different with no effort towards redesign and concept, dropship mode abandoned and so ******* on

Being an ignorant sycophantic fool being led up the garden path by a blind inexperienced developer with zero credible titles to their name is one thing. Trying to blind others into your belief that a half baked poorly executed *********** should be seen as anything but, is just stupidity beyond belief.

When it all burns to the ground as it surely will you can blame everyone all you like, its blind fools like yourself that helped sink this.

THIS.

if i had a year i'd focus on more but here's an appatiser

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 02 September 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

PGI added 3PV - the same 3PV we had in every other mech game.

Now, why would PGI fly in the face of 4 mechwarrior titles and their expansions, and create a convergence system that works nothing like shooting in most FPS genre games, thus alienating both traditional mechwarrior fans AND FPS players?

Indeed, most confusing here is that many of you claim previous titles where better, when every previous title used the same pinpoint mechanics, and suffered from numerous problems that where much more detrimental to balance than anything we have in MWO.

wrong- they added a 3pv simmillar to MW4, mw2 had all over panning camera at a fixed level which holds no advantage on the flat enviroments most mw2 maps had. MW3 had lowever levels for its camera too and still little cover on their maps to make peeking an advantage. but mw4 as any vet will tell you led to what vets can do now see over and spot targets that are vulerable or see ambushes they'd have to risk showing themselves for in 1pv. it can become a new meta when the word gets round.

and you think 3pv doesn't fly in the face of stratagy integrety amongest player interaction on these heavily covered maps and yet the stupid ghost heat fits so well with previous titles? hell no that bandaid flies very much in the face of previous iteration of mech warrior because those games knew how to balance things much better than these devs can.

so when previous tittles upon their launch offer pip windows that worked or alternate dollys just for a start and this game has death match or deathmatch cap+... yeah MW3 is far more in depth and offers far more gameplay than mwo will offer for another year yet. graphics is the only thing porpping this broken thing up, and sorry if i'm not entertained month after month by the rest of you explosion hungry rock sockem pilots... but i've played far better MW games than this one.

I should start a thread about PGI whiteknights, they aren't the quality we had a year ago, fail too often and lack "basic co-oborrated facts" features. thank god pgi didn't say WK would be better by launch or it would've been another lie.

Forum warrior isn't as fun as it used to be, but i'll keep supporting the we want a proper game crowd, cause what we have is a joke arena and more and more people are outnumbering whiteknights, sad but true.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 02 September 2013 - 05:54 PM.

[101011]

Ensaine, on 02 September 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

Umm, sorry dude. YOU weren't around at the beginning. If so, where is your Founder tag......

Sorry, you arrived at Open Beta like most people.

We pumped $5 million into this game.

Dude...get off your high horse and slum it with those of us WHO WERE GIVEN ACCESS. Are you really unable to figure out that not everyone had to pay to get into CB?

[Chip Danger]

I didn't pay to get into CB In fact the deal didn't come out till mid way through. Had this been closed beta right now I would not have given them 2 cents let alone the package.

Edited by Rizzwind, 02 September 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[Sam Slade]

ssm, on 02 September 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

Regarding fraud, "intentional" means (roughly) that they knew that they are going to brak promise at the time of making it.

Er... no it doesn't. Most 'Ponzi' fraud cases come out of a broker who couldn't keep up with their promises. Where on earth did you get the idea that fraud requires premeditation; that would make the charge criminal conspiracy, something I highly doubt was the intention of the Devs.

101011, on 02 September 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Dude...get off your high horse and slum it with those of us WHO WERE GIVEN ACCESS. Are you really unable to figure out that not everyone had to pay to get into CB?

I was given access to the CB but decided to get a Founders pack because of the 1st person only advertising: simple truth is that the inclusion of third person does entitle Founders to a refund without a chargeback because, unlike you, they transitioned from 'volunteer tester' to 'paying customer'(should ad that that is not a personal attack, just saying it changes an individuals status relative to the product).

EDIT: and wow... so much for 'no such thing as bad publicity'...

Edited by Sam Slade, 02 September 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[Your Friend Mr Rogers]

Very uninformative article. Almost seems as if it wants tear down MWO. You stupid ***** who believe this vague ********* are not helping either. Aren't we as players supposed to try and support the game? I can understand if you don't want to, but don't start telling everyone that the entire community is "enraged" at PGI for benign features in game. Also don't start saying the game just absolutely sucks. Fact is it hasn't changed much since it's creation. Some of you will say "that is exactly why it sucks." Well ok, then don't whine *****, moan, and smear MWO's name just take a break from playing until other features are introduced.

All of these "journalists" need to actually do some research, OR they could just play the game. It's called journalism for a reason.

[Super Mono]

Your Friend Mr Rogers, on 02 September 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Very uninformative article. Almost seems as if it wants tear down MWO. You stupid ***** who believe this vague ********* are not helping either. Aren't we as players supposed to try and support the game? I can understand if you don't want to, but don't start telling everyone that the entire community is "enraged" at PGI for benign features in game. Also don't start saying the game just absolutely sucks. Fact is it hasn't changed much since it's creation. Some of you will say "that is exactly why it sucks." Well ok, then don't whine *****, moan, and smear MWO's name just take a break from playing until other features are introduced.

All of these "journalists" need to actually do some research, OR they could just play the game. It's called journalism for a reason.

You know what's vague? This word salad of nonsense you call a defense. You must not have actually read the article and couldn't get past the title without exploding with rage yourself.

[Your Friend Mr Rogers]

Super Mono, on 02 September 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

You know what's vague? This word salad of nonsense you call a defense. You must not have actually read the article and couldn't get past the title without exploding with rage yourself.

Are you arguing at the article at hand or are you arguing that my argument isn't and argument. If it is the latter then please **** off.

[Jaynestown]

The "MWO in the news" posts are hilarious, especially since almost all of them say something like "this is just what the game needs before launch." Guys, it really is. It is a free to play game. You can just download it and play it if you are curious. You don't have to get talked out of paying $60 by somebody who tells you that the game sucks. You can just see. For free. All of these inane posts all over the web talking about the developers misleading the community and lying to the player base are just exposing the game to thousands of people who would otherwise have never heard of it. And now a lot of them are going to download the game post launch (for free) and they are going to see what all the fuss is about. It is going to be fun. They are going to get 25M in cadet bonuses. They are going to buy some mechs, and play with them in the mechlab, and realize that that is fun. Then they are going to drop some money on MC. That IS exactly what the game needs. Lol. They could not have done this better even if they had planned on adding 3PV just to get you all up in arms about it (which they didn't). So congratulations on actually #saving mechwarrior online, even though it didn't need the help

[Sam Slade]

Jaynestown, on 02 September 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

stuff

Someone needs to brush up on their consumer confidence studies... luckily for the gene pool most people don't think 'hmm... I wonder how much' when they see a 'RADIATION! KEEP OUT!' sign.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Jaynestown, on 02 September 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

The "MWO in the news" posts are hilarious, especially since almost all of them say something like "this is just what the game needs before launch." Guys, it really is. It is a free to play game. You can just download it and play it if you are curious. You don't have to get talked out of paying $60 by somebody who tells you that the game sucks. You can just see. For free. All of these inane posts all over the web talking about the developers misleading the community and lying to the player base are just exposing the game to thousands of people who would otherwise have never heard of it. And now a lot of them are going to download the game post launch (for free) and they are going to see what all the fuss is about. It is going to be fun. They are going to get 25M in cadet bonuses. They are going to buy some mechs, and play with them in the mechlab, and realize that that is fun. Then they are going to drop some money on MC. That IS exactly what the game needs. Lol. They could not have done this better even if they had planned on adding 3PV just to get you all up in arms about it (which they didn't). So congratulations on actually #saving mechwarrior online, even though it didn't need the help

he's right more ADD 5 year olds are going to play the big stompy exploding robot game... and then join the rage at the continuos problems and then get bored with same-me gameplay with all 2 glorious game modes and that they have all the assaults they want. then they'll curse more mental balancing decisions and then stomp all over this product just as many are now. That's been the open beta experience, why should a launch date change any of that except taking the beta shield away and adding the new infiltration of, "games develope all the time" excusses? mindless shooting game still hasn't evolved to serve anypurpose and a fast track to mc would seem to be the endgame.

lol game is not saved it's just being pointed at for being the basic mediocre thing many didn't want it to turn into especially as they put up money hearing about all these sophisticated sim like features such as role warfare. where is it? there's no missions focusing on different mech roles cause deathmatch modes doesn't cater to much outside assaults, community warfare? for 5 months posts that dared utter it was deleted and most people on the forums said CW will make or break it and "i'm holding on till CW gets here" PGI had better have something amazing for launch or the word sham will become popular.

so many features that would've made the game indepth, immersive, interesting and unique from other tittles have been forgotten abandoned or backpeddled into the generic repetative slug fest we're stuck with forever more. i troll to keep peoples minds awear that pgi have got to stop with the missions accomplished banners and get back to making a game that's different and perhaps better than hawken cause as it stands MWO is well behind. for the sake of the game let's hope that launch changes a lot or the game will be the poorman's FPS, if it survies all this fail atmosphere that's spreading.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 02 September 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Corwin Maxwell, on 02 September 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

I agree with both you Mckenna and Gregory "Ghost Heat" was a band aid that didn't work and might have looked great on paper but when put in to production failed.

It doesn't look great on paper, either.

Rasako, on 02 September 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

have you ever thought about the coming clantech and how ghost heat might be beneficial once the shitstorm that is OP clantech gets into the game? sure the ghost heat system itself is pisspoorly implemented and isn't explained ANYWHERE in the game, but I think it will help with larger issues regarding clantech more than anything, since, you know, they've been testing clantech internally for god knows how long

I am not god, so I can't claim to know it, but if it hasn't been tested yet and is still in a discussion stage, I wouldn't be surprised.

And heat scale, for example, doesn't deal with the Clan Gauss Rifle. They already have another idea for that, of course, of the same quality level as the heat scale.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 02 September 2013 - 10:28 PM.