15 replies to this topic

[VagGR]

it sould have been MWO not hawken...they are talking about cockpits in hawken, seriously can you imagine the MWO cockpits with Oculus?! how amazing it would be..

...PGI you need to start P R O M O T I N G this game..

[Aym]

VagGR, on 03 September 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

it sould have been MWO not hawken...they are talking about cockpits in hawken, seriously can you imagine the MWO cockpits with Oculus?! how amazing it would be..

...PGI you need to start P R O M O T I N G this game..

Nah, this wouldn't be at all useful with 3pv

[AlexEss]

I think it would be more impressive with a fast paced game like Hawken rather then MW:O. NOt saying it would not be cool to have in MWO but unless you were in a spider i am not sure it would be all that impressive,

Still it is nice to see that OR actually work, now if it can find a use outside of a novelty gadget (as in not like how the Wii did it with their controlls.. or the Kinekt) i´l buy one within a heartbeat.

[Clint Steel]

It would be a lot easier to play a slow game with VR headset like the Oculus. They say you really get a sensation for speed, so when your light mech is cruising at 100 MPH you'll feel it

I would love to see Oculus support, though not too worried until the consumer version (of the Oculus) comes out.

[evilC]

I think the OR will be a little out of the price range of many people, they would be much better served by adding TrackIR support.

Then people could either shell out $150 for a TIR unit, or use a cheapo webcam plus FaceTrackNoIR to get basically the same effect.

Lower cost of entry = more customers will use it = better payoff for less work.

[Toffa]

All,

Forget OR. How about a product that is available on the open market right now:

http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/

Just saying

Toffs

EDIT: Beaten by evilC

Edited by Toffa, 07 September 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[PoLaR]

I think the Oculus Rift would fit with MWO quite well. No, you aren't dashing around all over the place like crazy, but you don't need that type of gameplay to feel more immersered into a game. If they did bring this to MWO, I'd change my field of view to "80", where Sean Lang (Phil) has his set from NGNG so you can sit back and actually see all the buttons, nobs and screens In your cockpit. Yes, It would be stupid with 3PV, but I don't use that anyway other then the odd glance at my pretty BattleMech from behind.

C'mon.. virtual reality? Thats epic!!!

Edit: Apparently -k n o b s- is a bad word and gets the ***** treatment lol. Changed word.

Edited by PoLaR, 07 September 2013 - 05:47 AM.

[Catamount]

Considering one of the earlier OR demos was simply walking around a house manipulating objects, it's hardly something only suited for "fast" gameplay.

As for TrackIR, I'd rather have the Rift by a long shot, and insofar as cost is concerned, as long as they can keep it near the cost of the Development Kit (and there's no reason why they shouldn't; it's what they're aiming for), I find it hard to believe that there would be many people interested in that type of hardware who would be willing to put down $150, but not $300 for a vastly more interesting product. OR isn't just a head tracker; it's a head tracker with a 3D monitor built in. For $300, that's frankly a steal. So the only people I can see who'd prefer TrackIR are people who are limited to the oddly specific amount of ~$150 of disposable income. At that point, I wouldn't bother with either product; there are other priorities if money is that scarce. Either of these products are for people who really have cash to blow, and have far more basic hardware needs VERY thoroughly covered, and that's not going to be one's situation if $300 is some huge out-of-reach dream pile of cash.

Edited by Catamount, 07 September 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[evilC]

If you have a webcam (eg a sony PS3 eye) then you can use head tracking for free - just download FaceTrackNoIR.

I paid £20 for my PS3 Eye - no way OR can compete with that price point.

Also, there are issues playing games with OR.

You cannot see the controls.
The Head tracking is inertial only and inferior to TIR's optical system - not too bad for rotations but rubbish for translations.
You need to wear a bulky unit on your head. TrackIR's unit is much smaller or if using FaceTrack, absolutely no wires or headgear required.
It is available now, and PGI promised TIR support back at the inception of MWO. Get in line.

Edited by evilC, 07 September 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[evilC]

Oh and PGI only need to do a few things to make TIR compatible with MWO.

Add a second "joy look" binding similar to CTRL but different in a few minor ways:

1) It is a true toggle
2) When activated, it takes input from a joystick axis not from mouse
3) It does not move the arms

With these simple changes, we could have head tracking right now via joystick emulation.

Edited by evilC, 07 September 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Maybe if PGI would've gotten their shat together instead of being ********.

[Catamount]

Obviously PGI should include basic head tracking, given the ease of it; it's just that it shouldn't supplant Rift support.

As for the Rift, first off you don't need to do many "translations" in a mech cockpit; Rotation will do anything you need to. Secondly, judging bulk and tracking ability based on an early development prototype is hardly going to give an idea of what the final product is like. Even if it was, you'd have to be a bit wrong in the head to let them discourage such a product

As for not seeing controls, if you can't touch-type well enough to make use of basic PC controls without having to constantly look for them, then you have bigger problems than occluded vision I suspect there's a reason I haven't exactly heard people using the dev kit screaming about it.

[evilC]

Touch typing and hitting controls in a game are not the same thing.
Try putting a cloth over your kb, place hands under the cloth, pick a key in your head and find it by touch alone.

Hitting P when your fingers are resting on WSAD, *without looking* is not easy. Try it.
Yes, you can rebind controls to a more HOTAS friendly setup, but still, it is a limitation.

And translations would be vitally important for MWO. With the way many cockpits are laid out, you would ideally need to lean forward (or turn right, lean left) to get a decent sideways view out of many of the cockpits. Just turning 90deg left or right is gonna grant you sod all side view in most mechs.

Also if you want to look down at a target below you (ie avoid the minimap obscuring your view), you would again want to shift your view forwards (and maybe up a bit) to be able to look over the console.

Edited by evilC, 07 September 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[Catamount]

I've already done that experiment in MWO. When I need to override or power up/down, I do it with my right hand, not my left, and it took minimal practice before I could shift from the mouse to the O/P key without looking (I'm doing it right now with my eyes closed). Now, granted, not everyone can touch-type, even among gamers (most of us, myself included, use a sort of halfway method most of the time), but it's really not so hard to do what you say.

Further, it's only because of laziness that I have anything bound that far over on the keyboard at all, but were I use the Rift, I'd probably do what I should have done long ago and invest in a Logitech G13, as many people I know have done.
Finally, as the technology sticks around and gains traction and the various potential issues are examined, this can be dealt with within the virtual visual space afforded by the Rift as easily as anything else. In time, there's no reason why hand tracking couldn't be used to provide a visual aid, if not virtual buttons for control altogether. This form of hand-eye interaction has already been explored, with great demonstrated dexterity, by pairing the Rift with a Razer Hydra. Use that same concept, and a retooling of the web cam software you're already suggesting for head movement could easily do it without the need for notable additional hardware or cost.


I'm pretty sure that's the whole idea of new technology: to be innovative


As for translating, you're assuming MWO will support that with any hardware; at present only rotation is supported (when you shut down the mech you can look around). If and when that does become something to worry about, however, the Rift will likely have already improved its tracking ability with the consumer version. Even in the extraordinarily unlikely case that it doesn't, there's no reason games can't pair the Rift with other head-tracking utilities, but I'm more than a little doubtful that that will ever be needed.

[Guido]

Catamount, on 07 September 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

As for translating, you're assuming MWO will support that with any hardware; at present only rotation is supported (when you shut down the mech you can look around). If and when that does become something to worry about, however, the Rift will likely have already improved its tracking ability with the consumer version. Even in the extraordinarily unlikely case that it doesn't, there's no reason games can't pair the Rift with other head-tracking utilities, but I'm more than a little doubtful that that will ever be needed.

I've got no comment on OR vs TIR really, both are useful, for different environments. Both are to help immersion, and to each their own.

However, what I quoted is somewhat false. That is not the only way to look around the cockpit. Hold CTRL and you can look around the cockpit at any time. It also moves the arms, so you can manipulate the arms to do things like wave, track lights with arm weaponry (not efficient, but it's possible), and check control panels.

Edited by Guido, 07 September 2013 - 12:21 PM.

[Catamount]

Guido, on 07 September 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

I've got no comment on OR vs TIR really, both are useful, for different environments. Both are to help immersion, and to each their own.

However, what I quoted is somewhat false. That is not the only way to look around the cockpit. Hold CTRL and you can look around the cockpit at any time. It also moves the arms, so you can manipulate the arms to do things like wave, track lights with arm weaponry (not efficient, but it's possible), and check control panels.

Well, well...



Technically I never said that shutting down was the only way to look around, but while I figured there was a way to otherwise, I wasn't aware of what it was. Some day I'll check it out when I care enough