195 replies to this topic

[Cragger]

Mehlan, on 14 October 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

...and you ever notice during load that peoples 'ping' or what you want to refer to as 'latency' CHANGES? That is not a static number, it's dynamic, which means...in short you don't know squat about his connection.


as for exploit....I swear the more crud I see come out of the mouth of some of these 'founders'. <smh>

Unfortunately you can't fix stupid which you clearly are.

Yes latency aka ping fluctuates and if it was fluctuating I would have mentioned that but it didn't. So you've simply decided to make up some imaginary excuse because you simply don't like a factual observation that goes against your preferences.

Why do you think I knew he had two PPCs and an ECM? Because I was spectating him for over three minutes admiring his efforts and observing his complete lack of armor as he took down 2 lightly damaged heavy mechs and one heavily damaged one as the very last member of our team.

During that three minutes I hit TAB every 10 seconds or so to see if his ping was spiking and it never did. And yes he was exploiting the difficulty of hitting which is both actually targeting and hits being detected to his advantage to carry weaponry he should not normally be able to carry and survive. Maybe you should pick up a dictionary and within such a foreign thing of knowledge you will discover to 'exploit 'something does not automatically mean it is 'cheating' or 'immoral' or against the rules.

Exploit: to make productive use of.<exploiting your talents> <exploit your opponent's weakness>

So instead of being an ignorant *** blathering something about a stupid founder tag invalidating an observation maybe you should instead focus on not being an ignorant obtuse poster.

Edited by Cragger, 14 October 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[stjobe]

Mehlan, on 14 October 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

as for exploit....I swear the more crud I see come out of the mouth of some of these 'founders'. <smh>

While I have no objection to the gist of your message, please don't lump all 60-70,000 of us founders together in one big lump. There's all kinds of us - old, young, smart, dumb, good, bad, with or without gun. If you have an issue with a specific person, the honest thing to do is to call that person out for his/her stupidity, not passive-aggressively attack that person for belonging to a very diverse group of mostly-unrelated people.

In short, it's not the fact that he's a founder that makes him say dumb stuff, it's that he has dumb ideas and preconceptions.

[Captain Stiffy]

Mehlan, on 14 October 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

...and you ever notice during load that peoples 'ping' or what you want to refer to as 'latency' CHANGES? That is not a static number, it's dynamic, which means...in short you don't know squat about his connection.


as for exploit....I swear the more crud I see come out of the mouth of some of these 'founders'. <smh>

most people's pings level out considerably after only a few moments... ... ... ... ...

[Mehlan]

stjobe, on 14 October 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

While I have no objection to the gist of your message, please don't lump all 60-70,000 of us founders together in one big lump. There's all kinds of us - old, young, smart, dumb, good, bad, with or without gun. If you have an issue with a specific person, the honest thing to do is to call that person out for his/her stupidity, not passive-aggressively attack that person for belonging to a very diverse group of mostly-unrelated people.

In short, it's not the fact that he's a founder that makes him say dumb stuff, it's that he has dumb ideas and preconceptions.

Trust me, I'm not....but I'm considering the signal to noise ratio that PGI probably had to deal with based on what I see, for example the steaming pile of BS from Cragger ^.

Quote

Unfortunately you can't fix stupid which you clearly are.

Yes latency aka ping fluctuates and if it was fluctuating I would have mentioned that but it didn't. So you've simply decided to make up some imaginary excuse because you simply don't like a factual observation that goes against your preferences.

1 sample, every 'minute'....for 3 minutes. I don't have to 'make up' {Scrap}. Do you have any idea how much data is being passed back and forth in those 59 seconds intervals you don't see? It's not 'making' anything up or denying anything... it's idiots like yourself with apparently no frigging clue how to test and collect data. I hope there's a video, I'd love to see it..... however lets face it, the use of the word exploit is with negative connotation and not as an acceptence of reality.

Quote

most people's pings level out considerably after only a few moments..

They stabilize from the handling..being passed to another system... but that does not mean their connection is still/remains stable... Ideal would be to use someting to monitor and log the stream while in match... and being able to see it and compare to combat as it takes place.

[h0wl]

Fierostetz, on 03 September 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

I'd say all arguments against the spider are invalidated until you've got seat time in them. It's not an easy mech to run, and a pilot that keeps their torso constantly rotating can spread the damage out very well due to torso twist speed. I get one shotted every couple rounds when I run my spiders - usually when I forget what mech I'm in and stop moving for a second. Also - when I switch from a 5d to one of the others and forget I have no ECM :|

I agree with you. I ignored buying a spider for a long time and then bored bought one and to be honest, they require a lot of attention to play. They're great but wear you out because you have to work to manage a 500+ point match in them. The one thing I've found is that most players don't aim carefully. They frequently don't lead enough and they're shooting behind the mech. People get frustrated because they're hard to hit. I usually wade through 4 or 5 mechs and pick the guy that appears to be most accurate and go after him first to keep aware of where he's aiming. Most lasers-shots are glancing, not dead on, full-length lasings. You catch a Spider standing still and you can kill them with one alpha most of the time. Again, you know what I'm talking about if you've ever played them.

So I'd say before you *****, buy one and play it - the best Spider is the 5K.

The original poster mentioned SRM's, they're good but what works for any small mech are Streaks and carefully aimed ballistic shots. I had one guy that knew his loadout and he must have had 3 or 4 Streak SRM's. As soon as I got within range he just chained them on me. I was dead within seconds. I wish I had his name because I'd give him kudos.

They're not overpowered.

[akpavker]

Cragger, on 14 October 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

Today I watched a SDR-5D armed with two PPCs that the driver had stripped all the armor off of to do it and get as many heatsinks on as they could do over 600 damage and take down at least 3 heavy mechs... all alone.

Now the player was good, they had skill and steady aim using the PPCs on the arm while swiveling. But despite being shot at repeatedly and hit, with no armor mind you. None of the other team that remained could bring him down. Eventually he jump jet landed to hard and broke his own leg from having no armor.

Now if you have someone removing all armor from a mech so they can go as fast as they can carrying two ppcs, an ecm and the heatsinks to dump the heat knowing they can get away with it, and doing it brilliantly well, because of bad hit detection exploitation. It speaks volumes to how bad it is.

The whole thing was supposedly caught by someone twitch streaming and I can only hope they read this and post a link to the video.

Oh, the player had a displayed latency of 127ms during the match, just for those curious if he had a high latency.

the build is possible but im not sure it would be a real good idea to run it even with broken HSR.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5c3f992e964ec2c

if this guy was running this build and did as well as you said he wouldn't have been able to go any where with in 600 meters of another mech. another light with 1 or 2 streaks would have taken him down in a couple of shots.

[Cragger]

Oh he was quite close to them 200-400 meters. Remember streaks require a lock on and he had a Guardian ECM and he was facing heavies that could not mount an ECM for counter and obviously hadn't mounted a BAP and none were using a TAG as they weren't LRM boats.

Also, I never said he could pull this off every game and every match. I simply recounted a observation I had made in a game of a Spider running around with no armor and taking hits that didn't do any meaningful damage while he took down three other mechs.

Someone had dropped a twitch link at the game start so it is possible it was recorded. Unfortunately being as I had no interest in it at the time I didn't remember the link to check and see.

Their build is obviously an intention of staying at a distance but not that far as remember PPCs have a slightly over 1000m max range and if he got into trouble relying on both the small size and speed of the Spider plus the glitched hit detection to let them get away.

[Sandpit]

I run 5 SSRMs on my stalker strictly for those pesky lights that think I'm going to be an easy slow moving target. They usually run away to find someone else to pick on after a volley or two

[BookWyrm]

Cragger, on 14 October 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Oh he was quite close to them 200-400 meters. Remember streaks require a lock on and he had a Guardian ECM and he was facing heavies that could not mount an ECM for counter and obviously hadn't mounted a BAP and none were using a TAG as they weren't LRM boats.

Also, I never said he could pull this off every game and every match. I simply recounted a observation I had made in a game of a Spider running around with no armor and taking hits that didn't do any meaningful damage while he took down three other mechs.

Someone had dropped a twitch link at the game start so it is possible it was recorded. Unfortunately being as I had no interest in it at the time I didn't remember the link to check and see.

Their build is obviously an intention of staying at a distance but not that far as remember PPCs have a slightly over 1000m max range and if he got into trouble relying on both the small size and speed of the Spider plus the glitched hit detection to let them get away.

That would be a dead Spider in less than 10 seconds in darn near any match with an experienced player near by. Ok, slight exaggeration, but you get the point.

Edited by BookWyrm, 14 October 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[Captain Stiffy]

Mehlan, on 14 October 2013 - 04:09 AM, said:

This one time in band camp....

[William Mountbank]

I find it funny that when PGI inevitably gimp the Spider so that it dies whenever an enemy mech shoots his small laser into the sky after the drop start, there will be a couple of weeks were Spider pilots get tired of dropping in their 5Ks and dying within 2 minutes after having done only 20 damage. Then they will all move to sniper builds, and realise that armour has no bearing on survivability when you can hide behind stuff, so the net result from the forthcoming gimpage will be a glut of the very 2ERPPC Spider being whined about here - because ranged DPS will be the only way to be effective.

But I guess that's ok, because people love snipers on these forums, and they hate matches were most of the mechs are assaults.

[Troutmonkey]

To anyone claim there is no problem with spiders, and that it's just "learn to aim noob", you're dead wrong.

There is massive problems with hitreg at the moment to ALL mechs, with ALL weapons. Especially ballistics (LB10X) and SRMs.
The thing is the Spider, being the smallest and thinnest mech, gets an exponentional boost from this problem, making it damn impossible to hit.

On top of that the spider also has some of the best hit-boxes, granting it god-like damage transfer resulting in many weapons simply not one hitting components like they would on any other mech,

I tried the trial Spider after playing Jenners for ages (and being cored everytime) and was amazed at how much damage I seemed to absorb. I actually took arm and side torso damage, and everytime I died I had armour stripped all over, never just the core.

Now spiders are far from OP, and I never managed to top the damage charts, but they are friggin annoying and HSR needs major work. I'm not saying nerf them, I'm saying fix the damn hit reg so that my hit's actually register for a start.

[Monkey Lover]

When a spider is running the difference from one side the mech to the other is under 150ms .I loaded up a game this morning and saw most people were over 200. Next time you people have a problem hitting a spider ask yourself was he running away from me or was he running to the side and I was tracking him.Best way I found to kill a spider is with 4 med lasers set themto run one after another and spray the legs like a can of spray paint.This takes away all the server side ping problems.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 11 November 2013 - 12:43 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Monkey Lover, on 11 November 2013 - 12:40 AM, said:

Best way I found to kill a spider is with 4 med lasers set themto run one after another and spray the legs like a can of spray paint.This takes away all the server side ping problems.

That's like saying an LBX is a great solution for spiders. Just spray them with the pellets and you won't have to worry about aim. That is until you realize per pellet doesn't phase them, and with pencil thin legs 90% of your salvo won't connect.

9% of the other 10% won't connect either due to hit detection issues. >.>

Best of luck with your "spray paint" solution.

[Monkey Lover]

lockwoodx, on 11 November 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

That's like saying an LBX is a great solution for spiders. Just spray them with the pellets and you won't have to worry about aim. That is until you realize per pellet doesn't phase them, and with pencil thin legs 90% of your salvo won't connect.

9% of the other 10% won't connect either due to hit detection issues. >.>

Best of luck with your "spray paint" solution.

I have no problem killing spiders. Im in a light. I run them down like I do any other light. Lbx doesn't work because you have no idea where the spider is because your latency. Unless you can get behind them where it doesn't matter its not going to work. When im running after them all they can do is run forward a 200ms move doesn't matter because it's forward. Your lbx running sideways could be a body width away and you wouldn't even know it. I just play a game where the average person was 200ms ping! If your connection sucks get streaks.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Monkey Lover, on 11 November 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

I have no problem killing spiders. Im in a light. I run them down like I do any other light. Lbx doesn't work because you have no idea where the spider is because your latency.

Due to my consistent 32-34 ping I can say with great certainty I always know where the spider will be.

The game however, does not.

FYI streaks actually suck when you've got such a nice ping and you're better off using a higher damaging weapon.