19 replies to this topic

[Scorpyon]

I've been playing for just under two weeks, splitting time between MWO and Eve, and I've mastered all three Quickdraw variants. I like all three builds, and all have different strengths and/or different tasks. All of them move expediantly, have jump-jets for extra mobility and good medium range firepower. One, I call it my scout killer, has a 350xl in it and runs nearly 105kph.

The first tier question is: What is the larger game going to be like? I've not seen or heard anything about it.

In World of Tanks, the greater game devolved into Tier 10 heavy tanks only (with a very select few mediums welcome...and mine wasn't one of them). If MWO is going that way, then, my next purchase must be 90 (Highlander) or 100 tons (Atlas) and possibly the Stalker Missile platform. In preparation for this I purchased a Heavy Metal with some leftover Ultimate points from World of Tanks.

In playing the Heavy Metal, I've decided that I don't really like the plodding, can't change your mind, can't fall back, you're stuck in the hornet's nest type of fighting. And, to get any action all, you have to walk right into it and duke it out, or you'll miss it all anyway because you're S-L-O-W.

So, Tier 2 Question: Will the Quickdraw have any value at all in the Greater game? After the Quickdraw, where do I go...dependant upon the direction of the greater game?

Scorpyon

[Roughneck45]

We don't know yet.

Highlanders are good, and assaults generally dominate the PUG queue, so it is not a bad investment. Tonnage limits are coming though, so having a garage full of assaults won't cut it anymore.

When in doubt, grind Cataphracts. If you don't have them they are certainly worth investing in. Just make sure you get the 3D, then two others of your liking.

As far as QD's go, if you enjoy using them, they will always have a place. I hate the QD, but I love dragons, and they are generally considered useless too.

Edited by Roughneck45, 03 September 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

They have said they will be adding team tonnage limits eventually. A group, from 2 to 12 players, will have a minimum/maximum tonnage. you won;t be able to just bring a 90 or 100 ton mech, you will have to adjust the team composition to fit a certain limit.

I presume a pug team will be under the same weight limit, so even as an ungrouped player you won't be able to have a large number of 100 ton mechs per team. mid-range weights will be more important in the future, not less important!

[mailin]

As far as the final game, no one knows for certain what it will be like. The developers have sometimes back pedaled on what they were and were not going to have in the game. All that really is certain is that they will probably not stop adding mechs and features anytime soon. Overall, the game gets better over time, even though there are those who frequently QQ because the game is no longer giving them an "I WIN" button.

[Alaskan Nobody]

I would add that if your Quickdraw is not useless now - it probably will never be.

Difficult to play - at times almost guaranteed
Useless? - probably not.

As an example I still run my Centurions (almost stock) and they are far from useless even when people were yelling at me for playing them "Because Mediums are no good - get a heavy/assault/light instead"

PS - the oversize on the Cent is frequently actually a good thing - on account of how damage transfer from destroyed parts works. - Scrawny CT ftw!

Edit cause my browser keeps crashing : The damage transfer mechanics mean I frequently outfight in 1-on-1 or near 1-on-1 duels mechs like the Stalker and Atlas - though at my ELO level that might not mean much.

(hint - you can tell when your ELO is as low as mine )

Edited by Shar Wolf, 03 September 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[Scorpyon]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I am optimistic that my Quickdraw(s) will have a future :-)

However, I'm still at a point at which I need to invest in a new mech. As we don't know what the Greater Game will be like, lets pass on that idea for now. Given what I said about my play style above, Is there an Assault mech (and build) that yah'll could suggest? Another Heavy? Maybe a medium? I'm definitly not a light driver....I might try one later.

I tried the Trial Victor and that mech just sucked. I didn't even do doubles in it. There might be another variant/build that would be better though.

I tried the Trial Catapult and I liked the way that played....death from a distance with 4 ssrms for self defense (I don't know how many bad guys I killed coming into me with them, but, it was definitely a bad idea to let me see you coming ) There isn't a Stalker that I could do a similar build, though there are some good missile builds for that Mech.

Thanks in advance, everyone :-)

Scorpyon

PS I might be a newb to MWO, but , I'm not really a newb. I played Battletech WAY back when (70's/80's...as a matter of fact, I went to Half Price Books in Dallas last week and dug up an old copy of the Battletech manual to refresh my memory on how things worked); and have been MMORPG gaming since the early 90's.

[Aym]

With tonnage based match-making we expect the Quickdraw to be a very good mech, and that thrills those of us who wear the purple eagle since it's such an FWLM mech!

[Alaskan Nobody]

New mech?

Well I am inordinately fond of my Centurions - I could not really get into the trial Victor myself either though

I tend to run mechs near-stock though so I could not really give advice on mini-max (ing/ed) builds.

[Scorpyon]

lol I never run stock. I'm always rebuilding and tweaking to find a good balance between heat, firepower, mobility and specific mission requirements (IE, What kind of role do I expect to play in this mech?).

Scorpyon

Edited by Scorpyon, 03 September 2013 - 07:36 PM.

[Davis Early]

Cat LRM boat captain here, but only because the Archer isn't an option yet. Here's two cents offered up from a crusty old guy who used to play the Battletech MOO's, MUD's, and MUSH's over the Unix lines in college. Your mech will always have a role and a chance to have a strong impact in the runs we'll all be getting into in the future. When the game was played on table top, the ultimate moment for any player was when they landed that final kill shot on the opponents Atlas, regardless of whether it was a gunslingin' Marauder, a fire support Archer or Rifleman, or a dinky little Wasp that brought the big guy down. And if you've played the game for three or four days, you've probably seen what three good light pilots are able to do to most any other Mech in the game thus far.

So, don't worry about what type of 'Mech you run in, as long as you like the way it drives and the role it lets you play in your Company. The farther along we get in this project's development, the more and more you'll start to see good groups that don't just slug it out well, but whole teams that know their individual strengths and contributions, and are thus in need of a good medium or heavy to help hold position or flank the other side. Look for people who start actually having constructive dialogues here about how things are playing out once that tonnage limit idea takes effect, and I guaruntee you'll start reading things that help take your enjoyment of the action to the next level. This has been a fun introduction for me myself, and I'm excited to see how the idea of strategy and tactics start to go farther as we see more and more BattleMechs take the field.

Anywho, that's my blather for now, I'mma get me my Catapult running and see how much farther I can get towards that Master module.

Edited by Davis Early, 03 September 2013 - 08:02 PM.

[Koniving]

Redshift2k5, on 03 September 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

They have said they will be adding team tonnage limits eventually. A group, from 2 to 12 players, will have a minimum/maximum tonnage. you won;t be able to just bring a 90 or 100 ton mech, you will have to adjust the team composition to fit a certain limit.

I presume a pug team will be under the same weight limit, so even as an ungrouped player you won't be able to have a large number of 100 ton mechs per team. mid-range weights will be more important in the future, not less important!

I believe it was a group tonnage limit. After all 210 tons as it was stated, won't be even vaguely usable for a team of 12 mechs.

Oh you mean later on. Honestly I wish they'd have the tonnage limits for groups (actually I don't but it can work just fine) in conjunction with an individual tonnage limit especially for the dropship mode. Example if 210 tons is imposed on you, you could drop with 2 Atlases. Or you could choose an Atlas, a Highlander, and a Flea. Or maybe a Dragon, a Hunchback, Trebuchet and a Centurion. The list goes on.

[Davis Early]

I don't see any way something other than a company wide tonnage limit would work for now... Something that reflects 3 different mechs of each weight class. Then, a group could actually decide to go all lights and assaults, though honestly that idea would eventually be answered, too. See, everyone's going to get better the more we play. Some will have skills others don't and I have a theory that it's possible to keep this whole game a matter of who's going ot beat out the current tactic/loadout of fade. People can try to play a numbers game, but numbers are always looking to get changed. That's why BattleTech had to come up with the whole story line of the Clans in the first place to introduce new weapons systems that topped the elites of the IS.

[ShockATC]

I can tell you, this game is not about Tiers. Because its not world of tanks.

The "classes" you see here, are just the Weight-Classes. And there will never be a "Assault-Only" or a "Medium-Only" Battle. NEVER! Because thats not Battletech.

Imagine the Battletech-Battles (lol) as a very well cooked meal: you take a piece of this (lights) , some pieces of that (mediums), a little bit of those (heavys) and some nice spice to round it up (assaults). And Voila! You have a great Battle-Team with a lot of different roles.

If you say "meh, i like to play medium more" then go: Play Medium. You are not forced to buy an Assault Mech if you dont want.
Every Mech-Class has its Role in this game (sadly those Roles are pretty much ignored by the playerbase and everybody just goes with the highest pinpoint alpha).

[Alaskan Nobody]

Scorpyon, on 03 September 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

lol I never run stock. I'm always rebuilding and tweaking to find a good balance between heat, firepower, mobility and specific mission requirements (IE, What kind of role do I expect to play in this mech?).

Scorpyon

You will notice I said near-stock

And like other people have done once absolutely bored, you might try it sometime

[Sadistic Savior]

Scorpyon, on 03 September 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

In World of Tanks, the greater game devolved into Tier 10 heavy tanks only (with a very select few mediums welcome...and mine wasn't one of them). If MWO is going that way, then, my next purchase must be 90 (Highlander) or 100 tons (Atlas) and possibly the Stalker Missile platform.

It is not. There is no sequential "progression" in this game where hardware is concerned. There is no mech hierarchy. All mechs have strengths and weaknesses because they are designed for different things. An assault mech is NOT an "I win" button. The best tank in the game is a 30 ton mech, not an assault mech.

Which is best depends on your playstyle. Heavier is not necessarily better...in fact, the mechs with the best alphas are not assault mechs either.

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In playing the Heavy Metal, I've decided that I don't really like the plodding, can't change your mind, can't fall back, you're stuck in the hornet's nest type of fighting.

So...buy a bigger engine? I kick as in my Heavy Metal...I dumped that stock engine and got the biggest engine I could put into it. Now I have a jump capable assault mech that can run 65kph, and has potent arm-mounted weapons.

Quote

And, to get any action all, you have to walk right into it and duke it out, or you'll miss it all anyway because you're S-L-O-W.

Or hit from a distance (sniping). Or support other mechs.

You need to decide which playstyle is most fun for you, then build a mech around that.

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Will the Quickdraw have any value at all in the Greater game? After the Quickdraw, where do I go...dependant upon the direction of the greater game?

Only you can answer that. Does the quickdraw support your playstyle? If not, what is missing? What is it lacking that you can find in another mech? That will tell you where you should go next.

There are no mechs that will become obsolete. They all have assets and liabilities. Some are subtle (maybe they have a better torso arc, or maybe they torso twist better or maybe they can mount more modules ect...). There is no cookie-cutter formula for what is best. The game was designed that way deliberately. MWO gives you a palette of options and you select what is most fun for you.

[Scorpyon]

Sadistic, thank you for your response :-)

It looks like you didn't read any of the parts where I described my preferred playstyle :-)

Also, my question wasn't "What's best?" it was " Given that I've Mastered the Quickdraw variants, where should I go now, based upon the upcoming Greater Game?"

As we have no information on the Greater Game, I subsequently asked, "The Greater Game notwithstanding, and given the information on my playstyle above, and that I've Mastered the Quickdraw variants, which mech would be a good choice for me to move into now?"

As I've discounted Lights & non-mobile Assaults, that narrows the list some. The tougher Mediums (someone mentioned Centurian), the most moblie Assaults or another Heavy (someone mentioned Cataphract)? So, if it's another heavy....will that be redundant with respect to my 3 Quickdraws?

I'm considering a Victor or Stalker at this point in time, thinking hard about the Centurian.

Scorpyon

[Sadistic Savior]

Scorpyon, on 04 September 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Also, my question wasn't "What's best?" it was " Given that I've Mastered the Quickdraw variants, where should I go now, based upon the upcoming Greater Game?"

We won't know for sure until it hits. Community Warfare isn't here yet and the Devs are vague about it. But the Greater Game will probably involve more specialization...right now what you have is basically just team deathmatch. Cap-warriors are mocked for the most part (because there is no campaign, so no real gain from capping other than to end the game without combat, which everyone does not want), and there is little demand for support roles. I think that will change when we have an actual campaign going. But right now nobody knows any specifics.

So right now you should go nowhere. If you like the Quickdraw, stay with it and improve it. If not, try out some different mechs. We are all in a holding pattern till the "real" game hits after launch.

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As I've discounted Lights & non-mobile Assaults, that narrows the list some. The tougher Mediums (someone mentioned Centurian), the most moblie Assaults or another Heavy (someone mentioned Cataphract)? So, if it's another heavy....will that be redundant with respect to my 3 Quickdraws?

None of them are really redundant...like I said, there are subtle differences specific to the chasis. It is not merely a matter of what weapons or armor you can cram on it or even how fast it goes.

For example, I tried the Cataphract. I hated it. Because those big meat-club arms drag close to the ground, making snipey shots over a ridge VERY annoying to do. The torso twist also felt clunky to me. So I got rid of it and went to a Jager instead.

My general advice is to start with heavies and scale from there. Mediums are basically heavy-scouts IMO. Assaults are basically mobile pill boxes. Heavies are the mainstream.

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I'm considering a Victor or Stalker at this point in time, thinking hard about the Centurian.

A victor looks like a mini-Highlander to me. The chasis is shaped the same with similar hardpoints. Both are jump capable. The Victor might have a higher top speed, though probably not by very much. Based on my battlefield experience, I have not been impressed with them...I tend to mop the floor with Victors in my Heavy Metal. I like the victor, but I can't think of any reason to get one, because my Highlander already does all the same things. Maybe it has faster/smoother torso twist? If so, it doesn't seem to be helping it much in actual combat.

I tried the Stalker, and could not get past it's clunky torso twist. But a lot of people seem to love them and they are by far the hardest-to-kill mech for me. Their cockpit is really hard to target from the front or side, so headshots seem impossible under most circumstances (I have done it before from the top though). Their big weakness is the lack of pinpoint-damage hardpoints. They can spam a lot of damage all over, but cannot mount weapons with stopping power like the AC/20 or Gauss (except for Misery of course)...thats why I got rid of mine. I like headhunting. Also, no arm movement means they don't do well on inclines...they are like one big torso.

Have never tried the Centurion, but they seem very popular.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 04 September 2013 - 01:12 PM.

[John Buford]

While we do not know exactly where the game is headed once CW comes out I do belive some of the clues are out there. First the mentioned tonnage limits when you drop, this will tend to make many of the BattleMechs in themedium range. Also there is the numbers of each type, Lights have 4 with the Locust on the way, Heavys have 5 with the Orion and Thunderbolt comming, Assualts have 5 with the Battlemaster making 6 and finally Mediums have 6 with the Shadow Hawk, Griffen and the Wolverine comming. This looks like to me there is a good chance that Mediums will be the basis that everything is built around which in my opinion is what the actual BT universe is.

I guess the point of this is don't feel like you have to be in an Assualy just to be competative. Lots of good Mediums out there with even more comming. I pilot Lights and I do very well but I am getting some experience on a Centurion and plan on getting some of the Phoenix Mechs.

Edited by John Buford, 04 September 2013 - 01:41 PM.

[Phobic Wraith]

In my humble opinion, I think you should try the hunchback. Similar to the centurion, but perhaps slightly more fragile. However they bring the pain better than many heavies. Maybe it's just my Elo, but I eat Assault mechs all day. However they are not really suited to long range fights. Alpine has quickly become my least favorite map in my 4H. That being said, I promise they'll always have a place in the meta.

[Scorpyon]

Thanks everyone for more responses :-)

To Sadistic: I started playing with Victor builds on Smurfy after my last post. They ARE junior Highlanders, but, they CAN motor almost as fast as a heavy. I think they seem weaker than they should because it's a natural step for newbs to go from the Trial Victor and buy the 9k. They're still newbs, though. They'll try to drive them like a highlander or Atlas when they SHOULD be driving them more like a a Quickdraw or other mobile heavy....using speed and mobility. I'm not saying a Victor could take a Highlander, I AM saying that it probably shouldn't be as easy to kill them as you have had it.

Also, the stalker I'd do only for the missile build. I'd pick a couple of others to master them and then sell them back.

To Phobic: I'll check out the Hunchback, Thank you :-)

Thanks again everyone :-)

Scorpyon

Edited by Scorpyon, 04 September 2013 - 06:06 PM.