11 replies to this topic

[Beegus Deecus Bellator]

I remember reading how the timeline for this MechWarrior game is going to work. The year being 3050 in game. "on the brink of the upcoming Clan invasion". Gee, wouldn't it be nice to stomp around in a Warhammer IIC with dual PPCs? Oh wait, we cant do that. Thanks to Harmony Gold. They alone exclusively hold the rights (and some say undeservingly) to many iconic and just simply cool and the best Mechs in the Battle Tech universe. I did my homework and from what I can tell HG sued FASA for something that wasn't 100% their fault. FASA got the explosion. Its fans got the shrapnel. Essentially they punished common fans of Battle Tech and these Mechs by permanently locking them in their vaults to never be seen again with a few exceptions over the years for something that wasn't THEIR fault at all. So what exactly did they gain from this? Oh, a few bucks and unless used worthless drawings/designs unless used. Have they been used since? No, not much aside from fan uses and under strict agreements. Are THEY using them for anything? Nope, all they're doing is collecting dust and have been doing that for years now. Yes they some of them be reseen and released. But why not make them ALL like that, hmm? They're not using them, and they wont let anyone else use them for anything, so what gives? To be honest I cant tell. So I looked it up and found this petition, and personally I would love to see more people sign it because if and when the Clan invasion happens on MWO, I would love to have my Warhammer IIC to stomp around with. This is coming from a long time MechWarrior fan since 1999. http://www.change.or...he-unseen-mechs

Edited by Decus Bellator, 09 October 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[Lord Ikka]

I understand your frustration with the lack of the Unseen. The problem is, that while PGI could use the IIC versions (they are not and never were licensed by HG, and are free to use due to re-done artwork) the IIC variants are second-line and garrison Clan Mechs. They are not used in the Invasion at all on the front-line, just to garrison worlds that the Clans already conquered. So the first Clan Mechs we will see will not be secondary ones, but the front-line OmniMechs. We may eventually see IIC Mechs, but not for a long time.

The original variants of the Unseen are what HG is fight/suing/holding on to- despite some Japanese legal rulings. So we won't see the original Unseen unless PGI/IGP pulls off a miracle with making sure HG doesn't drop a frivolous lawsuit on them. Russ even stated in an interview that it would be extrememly difficult to get the Unseen in.

Edited by Lord Ikka, 10 October 2013 - 05:09 AM.

[Beegus Deecus Bellator]

This is mainly just to eventually make them available if and when the time comes. To get the legal things brushed aside. Like I said it makes no sense for them to be in possession of them because theyre not using them and haven't been using them. Personally I think its just so people that are making new Mech games, if they mess up and recreate one of the "unseen" they have a reason to sue them. Them holding onto these Mechs is like how Smeagol holds on to the Ring of Power. Pardon my paranoia.

Edited by Decus Bellator, 10 October 2013 - 01:27 PM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Decus Bellator, on 09 October 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

I remember reading how the timeline for this MechWarrior game is going to work. The year being 3050 in game. "on the brink of the upcoming Clan invasion". Gee, wouldn't it be nice to stomp around in a Warhammer IIC with dual PPCs? Oh wait, we cant do that. Thanks to Harmony Gold. They alone exclusively hold the rights (and some say undeservingly) to many iconic and just simply cool and the best Mechs in the Battle Tech universe. I did my homework and from what I can tell HG sued FASA for something that wasn't 100% their fault. FASA got the explosion. Its fans got the shrapnel. Essentially they punished common fans of Battle Tech and these Mechs by permanently locking them in their vaults to never be seen again with a few exceptions over the years for something that wasn't THEIR fault at all. So what exactly did they gain from this? Oh, a few bucks and unless used worthless drawings/designs unless used. Have they been used since? No, not much aside from fan uses and under strict agreements. Are THEY using them for anything? Nope, all they're doing is collecting dust and have been doing that for years now. Yes they some of them be reseen and released. But why not make them ALL like that, hmm? They're not using them, and they wont let anyone else use them for anything, so what gives? To be honest I cant tell. So I looked it up and found this petition, and personally I would love to see more people sign it because if and when the Clan invasion happens on MWO, I would love to have my Warhammer IIC to stomp around with. This is coming from a long time MechWarrior fan since 1999. http://www.change.or...he-unseen-mechs

HG doesn't have exclusive rights to the Unseen designs since they never had them to begin with. The Japanese courts made sure of that during the Big West v. Tatsunoko court cases in 2002 and 2006. Tatsunoko never had the rights to the designs, so the clause in HG's contract saying they do is invalid. This is why HG didn't use any derivatives of the Macross designs (character and mech) in Shadow Chronicles.

Check out what HG claims they have in their filing against Hasbro for the Jetfire Transformer.

http://www.courthous...ransformers.pdf

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 10 October 2013 - 01:37 PM.

[SuomiWarder]

Although it would be kinda cool to have the old models back, I admit I would have some trouble playing a BattleTech game in a Zentradi officer's pod....

The past is the past, those designs ended up in multiple shows, and as far as I am concerned it is time for redesigned unseen to rejoin the party. Like say the Pheonix Mechs coming MWO way.....

Edited by SuomiWarder, 14 October 2013 - 10:04 AM.

[The Lost Boy]

the Jaegermech is related to the Rifleman, the Cataphract is a melding of the Marauder and the Archer, its lots like car design, you can seel influences of one design upon another. Even the redesigned unseen, have lots of the same features. If you look at the miniatures for TT BT you will see it. I like the new version of the Battlemaster better than the original. The Thunderbolt has the offset cockpit, with the hatch type lid, and a menacing one-eyed cylon look. All the Mechs were inspired from a dozen or so original drawings. Now look what we have!

[Lord Ikka]

Marack Drock, on 25 October 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

How about all of us at MWO complain to Harmony Gold until they give the rights to the Unseen to Mechwarrior!

HG has ignored the complaints of BT fans for years, so don't look forward to melting their icy hearts anytime soon.

[Agentpony]

Decus Bellator, on 09 October 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

... So what exactly did they gain from this? . ....

First and foremost, copyright protection (assuming here Harmony Gold does hold the rights, or at least believes it does).

Copyrights HAVE to be defended by the (assumed) copyrights holder, or else there are circumstances that can lead to their expiration.

It doesnt matter wether HG uses the designs right now or not; they did pay money for them once and as such assume legal ownership. I know it is popular to see the abundant legal conflicts in the business world, especially in the "intellectual property" field, as simple corporate malice, but much of it is a cause-and-effect reaction to existing laws and their loopholes.

Edited by Agentpony, 26 October 2013 - 02:26 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Agentpony, on 26 October 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

First and foremost, copyright protection (assuming here Harmony Gold does hold the rights, or at least believes it does).

Copyrights HAVE to be defended by the (assumed) copyrights holder, or else there are circumstances that can lead to their expiration.

It doesnt matter wether HG uses the designs right now or not; they did pay money for them once and as such assume legal ownership. I know it is popular to see the abundant legal conflicts in the business world, especially in the "intellectual property" field, as simple corporate malice, but much of it is a cause-and-effect reaction to existing laws and their loopholes.

Actually, copyright does not expire if someone infringes upon it. What you are thinking of is trademarks. If someone uses a similar trademark that someone else had before and if the original owner of the trademark doesn't fight they lose the trademark. The only way a copyright expires is through time and the copyrighted thing becomes public domain.