32 replies to this topic

[Errinovar]

Amsro, on 05 September 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

Friendly fire damage output should be tracked and shown just the same way your enemy damage is tracked and shown.

Anywhere from 10-40 team damage seems acceptable based on 11 teammates. You would quickly find out who is mistaking team mates for enemies and who is trolling.

The amount of times I need to pause weapon fire while a team mate wanders into my firing lane is grotesque!

Complete agree with tracking this, it would help any conscientious players improve their game.

[Rushin Roulette]

Koniving, on 04 September 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

I'm fully aware.
You'd be surprised. I've been engaged within 5 seconds of River City, we call the engagement "Snipers" with PPCs and Gauss Rifles. These often require return fire, sometimes while a friendly runs in front of you completely unaware.

Well. to be honest... This is absolutely your own fault then... if you want to snipe the enemy, then move froward to the nearest low building and stand hugging it (your weapons can still for over it). If you decide to snipe at the start of the match... then make damn sure that you arent sniping across the only way to get past you .

Koniving, on 04 September 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

On Forest Colony the engagements for light versus light can, occasionally, occur within 27-ish seconds or any time before the countdown timer hits the 30 second mark.

Remember as SLOW as medium lasers fire, 32 seconds is enough to fire them 8 times.

So that leaves around 3 seconds for friendly fire to damage yourself. how many shots do you completely hit with those medium lasers on your teammate. Any reflected laser fire where you just brushed over yoru teammate by mistake will be absolutely negligible.

Koniving, on 04 September 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Remember as SLOW as medium lasers fire, 32 seconds is enough to fire them 8 times.

Your calculation went from the fact, that the Medium laser (short range weapon) can shoot 8 times within 30 seconds... this is a medium range weapon shooting directly on teammates at the start of the match where it is impossible for any enemy to be within even the extreme ranges of this weapon.

As stated... you only get into close fights on small maps within 30 seconds in a light and that will be very close to the 30 second mark. If you shoot those slow medium lasers at ranges where they are only pretty light shows or are shooting into the back of the teammate for 30 seconds, then that player really did deserve the relefcted damage. The same is ture for the light forllowing his teammate into the middle and continuously shooting the teammates back (any reflected laser damage while brushing past a teammate will be relatively negligible).

[Edustaja]

I haven't really seen start of the mach friendly fire in months, but this might be ELO specific.
For new players a system that limits the damage taken in the first 20 seconds is a good idea.

[Chiun44]

I am totally in favor of something being done, agree with most others. Lately, I might have a drop where zero teammates are doing it, other times, up to 4.

Beyond this at the start of a mission, it is also annoying to see people firing lasers into the air generally towards the enemy while making their way across the map. Thanks for pinpointing where we are and what direction you are facing. Why make it easier for a scout to get into place with a TAG? Why help your opposition out because you can't keep your fingers off the trigger?

[Piney II]

I just love starting a match with armor stripped off my back and legs from morons testing weapons and not clearing their fire. Why do you need to test fire your weapons anyway?

If you're driving a new untested build, take it to the testing grounds to test your weapons. Don't test them on my rear armor or legs after spawn.

[NickFury271]

I always get the same lame excuse when friendly fire occurs. "I have to test my weapons for heat" umm...if you don't know what your heat management profile is by now then you really need to go to the testing grounds. It's not like on your 20th drop for Terra Therma that the heat characteristics of your weapons are going to magically change.

I would be totally onboard with damage reflection back to Head Internal or CT Internal to teach those friendly fire trolls a lesson!

Edited by NickFury271, 05 September 2013 - 05:56 AM.

[Fire and Salt]

1.) Contact is immediate on some maps like river city - weapons delay a no go.

2.) Zeroing someones score because of a TK is lame. You could TK a a guy with 1 point of damage, and it might be because he ran between 2 mechs clearly shooting at each other.
Actually, a teammate could bump you, and you would get credited for killing him.
I do agree that team damage should be subtracted from score - possibly at a 2x rate.

3.) Its not always the fault of the person doing the damage. Sometimes a teammate just stands in a dumb place (ex standing on the dead mech that clearly had incoming LRMs.

Edited by Fire and Salt, 05 September 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[Koniving]

Rushin Roulette, on 05 September 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

Your calculation went from the fact, that the Medium laser (short range weapon) can shoot 8 times within 30 seconds... this is a medium range weapon shooting directly on teammates at the start of the match where it is impossible for any enemy to be within even the extreme ranges of this weapon.

As stated... you only get into close fights on small maps within 30 seconds in a light and that will be very close to the 30 second mark. If you shoot those slow medium lasers at ranges where they are only pretty light shows or are shooting into the back of the teammate for 30 seconds, then that player really did deserve the relefcted damage. The same is ture for the light forllowing his teammate into the middle and continuously shooting the teammates back (any reflected laser damage while brushing past a teammate will be relatively negligible).

Try a light, run to the middle of a small map. You'll get engaged if not destroyed within 10 to 15 seconds.

Also 80% of the weapons in the game revolve around a 4 second time frame, and thus 8 times within 32 seconds. PPCs, Gauss Rifle (before the charge), AC/20, ER PPCs, Medium Lasers, LPL (3.85), SRMs, LRMs, NARC, and the list goes on.

But whatever, take your thirty minutes. They'll seem like years.

Rushin Roulette, on 05 September 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

Your calculation went from the fact, that the Medium laser (short range weapon) can shoot 8 times within 30 seconds... this is a medium range weapon shooting directly on teammates at the start of the match where it is impossible for any enemy to be within even the extreme ranges of this weapon.

As stated... you only get into close fights on small maps within 30 seconds in a light and that will be very close to the 30 second mark. If you shoot those slow medium lasers at ranges where they are only pretty light shows or are shooting into the back of the teammate for 30 seconds, then that player really did deserve the relefcted damage. The same is ture for the light forllowing his teammate into the middle and continuously shooting the teammates back (any reflected laser damage while brushing past a teammate will be relatively negligible).

Try a light, run to the middle of a small map. You'll get engaged if not destroyed within 10 to 15 seconds.

Also 80% of the weapons in the game revolve around a 4 second time frame, and thus 8 times within 32 seconds. PPCs, Gauss Rifle (before the charge), AC/20, ER PPCs, Medium Lasers, LPL (3.85), SRMs, LRMs, NARC, and the list goes on.

But whatever, take your thirty minutes. They'll seem like years.

[Edson Drake]

FF at the start is rampant these days for some reason, I'm not sure if it's coming from new players, pissy players or what, but there's a lot lately.

I think we should have massive FF penalties all the time, punish players for FF all the way to effectively negating any C-Bills gain after the match.
I know it may sound harsh, but even unintentional FF during the heat of battle should still be punished. Just the other day I filled the back of a mate with an AC20 and and another with ErPPC and still feel bad that I couldn't say "I'm sorry" at the time.

[Rushin Roulette]

I am playing lights. and in Conquest mostly nowadays. You just have to pick the best routes to Theta and hide behind the cap point center for a few secodns (if you are with multiple lights). Never run in a straight, predictible path and use the Jumpjets (if aplicable) to enhance the randomness of your position.

If Most of the weapons you listed wont be able to hit me at that point, as they have too short a range (AC20, Med Lasers, SRMs, NARC and so on... LRMS wont hit either, because I am behind cover with my legs pointing to the nearest cover once Ive capped far enough). The other weapons wont be able to hit at that point in time, as I am still behind cover while not moving. Light mechs whcih can reach me either have multiple smaller weapons (Small to medium lasers and a few SRMs) or have one big weapon only for which the damage is not too bad compared to the amount from the enemy snipers.

After all this, this thread is all about team damage, not damage from the enemy because someone maneuvered themselves into a dumb position. All those short range - high damage weapons can only be from teammates within the first 30 seconds. The rest are from snipers with good long distance aim.

[Scorpyon]

Yeah, FF is bad. But, FF from folks just shooting off their weapons for no reason is just stupid. Both should be punished. The latter should be punished harshly.

The point in punishing the latter harshly is to make people quit doing it.

I liked the idea of punishing them monetarily (harshly), but, you should also: put their names up in red on the player list at the end of the match (shame them); and FF damage should be part of the player stats, and early-game FF should be worth at least triple...5x...10x...have I said 'harshly' yet?

I don't know that actually reflecting the damage is doable without a lot of extra coding. As an old IT guy, I know that if this type of thing isn't in the original plan, it's really difficult and problematic to go back and put it in.

Scorpyon

[Hexenhammer]

I've wanted a FF done and received stat on everatxh and that to be tracked by mech like everything else. I want to know what mechs I Ff with the most and which mechs I most prone to recieve FF in.

Not asking for names just stats.

[Sadistic Savior]

wizdan, on 04 September 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

I can understand and appreciate the role friendly fire has in combat - you need to be aware of where your team mates are, which weapons are safe to fire, etc., but I'm getting really tired of all the friendly fire done at the start of each round. Whether it's from people who can't be bothered to aim at the sky or a wall when setting their weapons groups, griefers, or people who just get bored and plink their team mates the whole way until contact is made, is becoming nearly impossible to get everyone to the fight at 100%. Would there be a way to reflect friendly fire for the first 30 secs or so of each match, so anyone unaware/unkind/bored enough to commit it gets their own mech damaged in place of their target? The status quo of reporting griefers (which seems to be a never ending task), and getting frustrated with the other types needs to be addressed somehow.

I don't aim at the sky because it telegraphs my position.

This "problem" has been greatly exaggerated. In all the games I have played, I have actually hit someone maybe twice. This is not something that happens often. People need to relax.

MagicM0E, on 05 September 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

I think (not so) friendly fire should stay just as it is and pilots should learn some control, just as they would if they were actually sat in a 10m+ tall walking death machine. What I would like to see is a friendly fire damage penalty. If you cause damage to a friendly Mech it gets deducted from your final score at twice* the rate you'd score for shooting an enemy Mech.

Eg. AC20 into your team mates back = minus 40 points of damage from your final score along with the loss of the accompanying cbills/xp

Also, if you accidently (or otherwise) kill a friendly, your final score is zeroed. No points, no XP, no Cbills, no anything!

M0E

*this figure could be adjusted up or down depending on how serious the community see’s this problem.

I am ok with that system. So long as all the FF whining stops once it is implemented.