17 replies to this topic

[IR_Quinn]

Well now I've got my light mech running nicely, I've decided it's time to sort my heavy mech out. I have a JM6-S that I've been toying around with. I've come up with a build which I'm hoping will be able to pressure enemies at range whilst moving in close to unleash hell.

This is what my build currently looks like;
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...81b48ad50acfd4b

Are there any major problems to this? Or anything that I could improve?

[ShockATC]

I would change the 2 Large Pulse Laser with 4 Medium Laser.
Reason: Same Damage, less Heat, same range.

Edit: oh and i would be carefull with that XL engine if i were you. Especially because that Mech has some big Sidetorsos and you will get killed very easily

Edited by ShockATC, 04 September 2013 - 01:13 AM.

[ArkNemesis]

I would say : always max armor, except perhaps for legs if you don't have to engage mid or close range. And XL engine only for long range mechs.
If you like AC5, try UAC5, they are really worth it.

You can find a lot of build and useful information on mechspecs forum :
http://www.mechspecs.com/forum/

For a cool build, you can look at the following topic :
http://www.mechspecs...hp?topic=2713.0

[Royalewithcheese]

Here's a stab at the same thing: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...44e481073a8379f

Medium Lasers b/c what ShockATC said, UACs for more firepower, and lots of armor + heatsinks to keep you firing. You can also run a very similar build (fewer heatsinks) with a STD 260:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dbc59aa86e6ed72

...or LLAS: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...794b5df4827cfbb

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 04 September 2013 - 04:34 AM.

[Earl White]

Definitely UAC 5, I told my friend (complete newbie) who started to save up for a Jaegermech, as soon as he got those guns he started doing so much more damage per match, it was like night and day.

The 4 medium lasers can be a nice added bit of burst, and since your UAC/5 causes little heat (and jams) you should be able to fire fairly consistently, you could go large lasers though so your range is more unified.

Edited by Earl White, 04 September 2013 - 04:59 AM.

[Koniving]

ShockATC, on 04 September 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

I would change the 2 Large Pulse Laser with 4 Medium Laser.
Reason: Same Damage, less Heat, same range.

Actually. You are not correct under any of those aspects except weight.

4 medium lasers do 20 damage, require 1 full second of being on target to do the damage, generates 20 heat (5 * 4), have a range of 270, and requires (1 second beam time before cooldown begins + 3 second cooldown) 4 seconds to fire again.

The twin large pulse lasers do 21.2 per shot, require 0.6 seconds of being on target to do the damage (more precision), generates 17 heat (8.5 times 2), have a range of 300, and requires only (0.6 beam time + 3.25 second cooldown) 3.85 seconds to fire again.

Thus, after 12 seconds...
The 4 medium lasers have dealt 60 damage (requiring a total of 3 seconds of being on target), fired 3 times, generated 60 heat, and will fire again at the 16th second (4 more seconds).
The twin large pulse lasers have dealt 63.6, (requiring a total of 1.8 seconds of being on target), fired 3 times, generated 51 heat, and will fire again in (0.6 beam + 3.85 cooldown * 3 = 13.35) in 1.35 seconds or the 13th point 35th second.

4 ML are inferior in every way.

[Redshift2k5]

Koniving, on 04 September 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

[/size]

Actually. You are not correct under any of those aspects except weight.

4 medium lasers do 20 damage, require 1 full second of being on target to do the damage, generates 20 heat (5 * 4), have a range of 270, and requires (1 second beam time before cooldown begins + 3 second cooldown) 4 seconds to fire again.

The twin large pulse lasers do 21.2 per shot, require 0.6 seconds of being on target to do the damage (more precision), generates 17 heat (8.5 times 2), have a range of 300, and requires only (0.6 beam time + 3.25 second cooldown) 3.85 seconds to fire again.

Thus, after 12 seconds...
The 4 medium lasers have dealt 60 damage (requiring a total of 3 seconds of being on target), fired 3 times, generated 60 heat, and will fire again at the 16th second (4 more seconds).
The twin large pulse lasers have dealt 63.6, (requiring a total of 1.8 seconds of being on target), fired 3 times, generated 51 heat, and will fire again in (0.6 beam + 3.85 cooldown * 3 = 13.35) in 1.35 seconds or the 13th point 35th second.

4 ML are inferior in every way.

Spending that much tonnage for 1.2 extra damage per volley isn't a good idea. With uac5 as the primary weapon medium lasers as backup will be far superior to trying to cram in two large pulse

[Koniving]

RyanUNDEAD, on 04 September 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Well now I've got my light mech running nicely, I've decided it's time to sort my heavy mech out. I have a JM6-S that I've been toying around with. I've come up with a build which I'm hoping will be able to pressure enemies at range whilst moving in close to unleash hell.

This is what my build currently looks like;
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...81b48ad50acfd4b

Are there any major problems to this? Or anything that I could improve?

You did great on the choice of LPL.

For you, the combination of AC/5s + the LPLs is really taxing in the weight department. It's wicked damage but still taxing.

If you do the downgrade as the second poster suggested you'd have a lot more weight available for heatsinks, ammo, remove ferro, and slap on an AMS. Possibly slap on an AC/2 to go with the AC/5s.

This is something more in line with what I'd do.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a1aee8e1576aa9e

The AC/2s for when you can't get close and to soften them up. Even at 150 shots the ammo is kind of limited. Make the shots count. The LPL is your main damage weapon. When you get close you can shred the armor quickly. The MGs are a backup. No matter how hot you are so long as you have MGs you're doing damage. Even better since it's super easy and pretty fast to shred armor with the LPLs, the MGs can fry the enemy's weapons without having to finish off the body part. So if you took the armor off an arm with a gauss rifle (doesn't matter if you intended to or not), a split second of MGs will destroy that gauss rifle and it'll sneeze a good 20 damage into his side torso softening him up.

For the original design, remove two DHS and slap in an AMS, AMS ammo, and more leg/arm armor. But I thought to myself you might not manage your heat as well as myself.

If you're interested in dakka fun, the following vids contain builds that are possible with your mech. Though you will need to fire the 4 AC/2 build at the same time or really slow down the firing rate.

Spoiler

4 AC/2s


Twin AC/2 + twin AC/5 combo.


twin UAC/5 + twin AC/2 combo.


Note: In either of the two previous builds you need to find an Atlas or a couple of mediums to support you. You cannot take direct fire for long even with superior armor to your current build.

This build is 6 SL and 2 MGs. You can replicate this with 4 MG and 4 SL for some pretty wickedly fun results. Be certain to throw on a large standard engine. If you use an XL you can do something similar, but 2 MGs and 2 AC/2s for a little range capabilities too.

Enjoy yourself out there!

[Koniving]

Redshift2k5, on 04 September 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Spending that much tonnage for 1.2 extra damage per volley isn't a good idea. With uac5 as the primary weapon medium lasers as backup will be far superior to trying to cram in two large pulse

So he's better off with weapons that jam frequently unless you space them out with a macro and will repeatedly jam unless he releases the button (sometimes the unjamming takes up to 7 seconds if you're holding the fire button and not releasing it, that or they unjam within 3 only to jam before the next shot) with 4 ML?

It can help, yes, especially with the weight but I'd hardly call that ideal.

Of course, AC/5 + LPL and UAC/5 + LPL are not good combinations.

In a battle against a 4 ER PPC stalker and 4 PPC + Gauss Atlas the factor that made me lose was the UAC/5 kept jamming over and over and over and over and over and over again in the 40 second fight. I had PPCs and SPLs as backup and almost won. Stripped the Stalker clean of his weapons, and the Atlas was almost cored. If it weren't for that UAC/5 constantly jamming I'd have done better (and yes I know the jam rate's reduced but it still jams BEFORE the first shot!)

So for me, they are unreliable. The medium lasers are far too slow (it takes 3 to get close to the DPS of a single AC/5, and the heat is insane. For that you're better off with a PPC). Maybe twin UAC/5s + a PPC + 3 small lasers and 2 MGs. (Actually that sounds like something I would run, and still more heat efficient than 4 ML provided the PPC and SLs are not fired at the same time).

I supplied an alternative if he keeps the LPL, trading the AC/5s with AC/2s. Even fired normally they are pretty effective.

Although.. I wonder how twin AC/10s + twin PPCs might handle, now that I think about it... Another way around Paul's system. There's just too many ways to get around that ghost heat.
-----------
Oh, Ryan. This is not necessarily a build I'd suggest starting off with, but it is loads of fun. Some changes you might try to make it more realistic is SPLs, or MLs. It uses twin LB-10s + twin MGs for supreme damage per second when the armor is gone. It uses flamers to blind people, but you'd want to use actual damaging weapons I'm sure. If nothing else it's a lot of fun.
​

Spoiler

Edited by Koniving, 04 September 2013 - 05:50 AM.

[Royalewithcheese]

On the topic of UAC5 vs. AC5, there's no contest. If one of your UACs jams, you're still doing almost 50% more damage than the AC5. If they both jam, you probably needed to twist, cool down, and reposition any way.

[Kanajashi]

*Warning* Invalid Build! Max Armor Required...

Try this: JM6-S

+More Armor
+Standard Engine
+UACs for MOAR DAKKA!

Edited by Kanajashi, 04 September 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Koniving]

Tears streamed down my eyes as I took apart the greatest Jager ever made (the double barrel shotgun + flamers + MGs Jager) in favor of demonstrating some of the builds I've suggested. ...and now Movie Maker is being a pain.

[Trelayne]

RyanUNDEAD, on 04 September 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

This is what my build currently looks like; http://mwo.smurfy-ne...81b48ad50acfd4b Are there any major problems to this? Or anything that I could improve?

Jagermechs are poorly armored, permanently overheating, slow, explosive barrels of autocannon ammo with terrible hitbox layout and chicken wings in place of arms.

However, those chicken wings come with two or more ballistic slots. These ballistic slots make the difference between Jager being a bucket of scrap metal or scaring enemy assaults into the nearest bush. These ballistic slots ARE the Jagermech.

2xAC/5 that you have in your build are the bare minimum of ballistic load. Go with more dakka, more ammo, do not be scared of XL engines.

[IR_Quinn]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I've tried to take it all on board. After a little more testing and playing around I think I've found a build I'm happy with;
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...37e1df4612eb234

I'm still deciding if I should drop a medium laser and a ton of ammo for an AMS.

[Modo44]

You should do OK with about 4 tons of ammo per UAC5, so you can fiddle with a ton or two of ammo. Instead of taking AMS, I would start by replacing a ton of ammo with an ML, and moving some back armor to the front. More than 20 on the back CT seems like a waste. Some people will go as low as 10. This would be my ride.

[SchwarzerPeter]

I did run 2xUAC5 in my Jagger. It was not bad but it does lack of something.

With the LB10X Buff i tried this: JM6-S STD 260 2xLB10X 4xML and i am having more fun with my Jagger than ever.

I wouldn't put XL engines in a Jagger. Most of the people (including me) aim for the fins, because its usually a easy kill. They are very large and easy to hit. So if you don't run a dual Gauss and stay way behind i wouldn't recommend it.

Edited by SchwarzerPeter, 05 September 2013 - 02:09 AM.

[scJazz]

@RyanUNDEAD
Before the UAC5 buff 2 weeks ago people were using 3 tons of ammo per gun generally, 5 tons seems excessive.

I use a simple rule for ammo. If I don't occasionally run out then I'm carrying too much If I die frequently with lots of ammo still onboard I'm carrying too much. It does however come down to play style and what works for me might not work for you.

Reminder: <600m for full damage, 1200m half damage, 1700m scratching paint

As for the AMS, you are new, you don't know the maps, and your situational awareness is probably not great. This means you probably don't know where to find cover, know how much cover you need, and probably aren't orienting yourself correctly to deal with incoming missiles. As a dedicated LRM pilot I know what happens to Jagermechs that don't have AMS. In fact such targets are on my Priority list.

Last bit, as was mentioned earlier, you have too much armor on your rear torsos.

[Trelayne]

RyanUNDEAD, on 05 September 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

Thanks for all the advice guys, I've tried to take it all on board. After a little more testing and playing around I think I've found a build I'm happy with;
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...37e1df4612eb234

I'm still deciding if I should drop a medium laser and a ton of ammo for an AMS.

That looks much better scJazz is right about your rear armour being too thick, i just wanted to say the same about your Jager's arms.

Have a look at the mech hitboxes in this thread (Jagermech is the 4th mech down in that post): http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1851878

If you are facing the enemy head-on, most people will aim for cockpit or CT (central torso). Any damage to the arm is likely to be accidental and very difficult to sustain over a period of time - that chicken wing of yours s a very small target, especially if you keep moving.

If you turn your side to an enemy, that arm will be at the top edge of your side projection. Most people will once again aim closer to the of the centre of mech, with most damage being spread over your leg and side torso.

In other words, you can take half of that armour off the arms and keep both the AMS and the extra medium laser