27 replies to this topic

[Shadey99]

Wolfways, on 05 September 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

Mediums should be the fastest brawlers, but PGI gave that position to the lights who should be hit-and-run/scout mechs.

This has a lot to do with giving lights a top 'speed' of ~150 kph across each model. If we could not improve the engine in a mech (only options to lower it) then Commandos would be 97/107 kph, Jenner 113/125 kph, Spider 130/143 kph, Raven 97/107 kph. And Mediums would be Cicada at 130/143 kph, Blackjack 65/71 kph, Centurion 65/71 kph, Hunchback 65/71 kph, and Kintaro 81/89 kph. Now their are lots of other 90ish kph mediums that are not in this game, but the ability to put in much larger engines in all lights makes them all much faster than TT. Which then effects Mediums.

Let me add that I don't suggest a big change to speed for lights or a increase to engine caps on mediums (most don't have the tonnage to use that much larger an engine). I'm just pointing out that this difference is part of the cause for a change in perceived role.

Edited by Shadey99, 06 September 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[Wolfways]

Shadey99, on 06 September 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

This has a lot to do with giving lights a top 'speed' of ~150 kph across each model. If we could not improve the engine in a mech (only options to lower it) then Commandos would be 97/107 kph, Jenner 113/125 kph, Spider 130/143 kph, Raven 97/107 kph. And Mediums would be Cicada at 130/143 kph, Blackjack 65/71 kph, Centurion 65/71 kph, Hunchback 65/71 kph, and Kintaro 81/89 kph. Now their are lots of other 90ish kph mediums that are not in this game, but the ability to put in much larger engines in all lights makes them all much faster than TT. Which then effects Mediums.

Let me add that I don't suggest a big change to speed for lights or a increase to engine caps on mediums (most don't have the tonnage to use that much larger an engine). I'm just pointing out that this difference is part of the cause for a change in perceived role.

Well i personally feel that all mechs are too fast. I don't mean the numbers should be reduced, just that they "feel" too fast.
But then i'm waiting for a Mad Dog, a heavy mech that equals the speed of a stock Raven. Not that i care about the speed, i just like the look of it

Imo, lights should be made weaker (less armour, or even better, an armour buff for other classes, especially the side and center torso's) then more players might prefer mediums for fighting in.

[BlackWidow]

Here is something to consider.

All other things being equal, a BIGGER fast powerful mech is going to consistently do better than a SMALLER mech with roughly the same speed and/or firepower.

1. What you need to realize is ONE of the balancing factors, Repair and Rearm (RR) has been removed from the game. For now, and probably forever. This is one of PGI's easy sacrifices to appeal to a mass audience. But, if it were in game, medium mechs would be much cheaper to maintain than Assualts. And with the current C-Bill economy (which I have *no* issues with) it would make mediums even more desirable. Even if just from an economic standpoint and not a tactical one.

2. The other thing is again.....poor translation from Table Top. The problem is the lack of tonnage limits. When you have no reason NOT to bring and assault...you bring an assault. And yes, I'm generalizing here. In table top, with set tonnage, if you wanted more mechs on the board, you had to field some mediums. And honestly, with the RNG to hit/location mechanic in the board game they tonnage differences were not as glaring as in MWO.

I HIGHLY suspect when tonnage limits are implemented (if it doesn't break everything else) you will start seeing a LOT more nasty MED on MED action.

3. Lastly, since we only have TWO game modes there isn't really a "role" for mediums (or lights) outside of what their mobility may bring to the table. And with the capture timers BADLY increased....this made them even less so.


So, to sum up:

My fixes for mediums would be bring back RR, implement tonnage limits and for PGI to PULL THEIR HEADS out and implement more than just TDM and CTF modes. Escort, scouting, attack, defense, scan deliver survive, hide etc etc.

[Khobai]

Quote

Weight limits are absolutely the solution.

nope theyre not because weight limits make the false assumption that a heavier mech is better than a lighter mech which is not always the case.

100 ton atlas vs 85 ton stalker for example.

all weight limits accomplish is to completely kill off any mech that isnt efficient for its weight.

[Shifty Eyes]

I absolutely agree that drop weight limits will help alleviate most of this problem. After that more tweaking can be done if there is still a problem.

In fact, I think weight limits will fix a lot of balance issues... there will be far fewer carbon-copy "metagame" assaults simply because assaults will become more of a liability.

Khobai, on 06 September 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

all weight limits accomplish is to completely kill off any mech that isnt efficient for its weight.

This is silly logic, seeing as how right now mechs that aren't assaults are "killed off" exactly because of their weight. Being efficient for your weight is one of the fundamental mechanics of all things battletech, it's something that should be an important factor, and right now it's not.

Edited by Shifty Eyes, 06 September 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

This is silly logic, seeing as how right now mechs that aren't assaults are "killed off" exactly because of their weight.

Its not silly logic at all. Mechs like the Atlas are worth less in a tonnage restricted environment because you can just take a Stalker instead, which is generally considered a better mech, AND save your team 15 tons.

Tonnage restrictions solve one problem and create another. That is not a feasible solution.

[Steel Claws]

Everyone is so concerned about mediums and my responce is why - and I like driving them. Let the others take assault mechs if they want - it's none of my business to tell them what to take. Assault mechs are fairly slow lumbering targets to be picked apart at leasure. I worry more about heavies than I do assaults when I'm in a medium.

The big issue with mediums is not their size/ speed/ firepower (and several of my mediums pack as much punch as a heavy) - the real issue is that people want to drive them like they are heavies and assaults. Don't go toe to toe with 3 Atlases, use your speed and agility to manuver around that lone wolf or to get into a flanking position and hit them from behind. Say it with me "MEDIUM MECHS SHOULD NEVER TRY TO BE THE TIP OF THE SPEAR". Thats what assault mechs are for - to be distractions while you move in and lay the smack down on the enemy from behind.

[YueFei]

Steel Claws, on 06 September 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Everyone is so concerned about mediums and my responce is why - and I like driving them. Let the others take assault mechs if they want - it's none of my business to tell them what to take. Assault mechs are fairly slow lumbering targets to be picked apart at leasure. I worry more about heavies than I do assaults when I'm in a medium.

The big issue with mediums is not their size/ speed/ firepower (and several of my mediums pack as much punch as a heavy) - the real issue is that people want to drive them like they are heavies and assaults. Don't go toe to toe with 3 Atlases, use your speed and agility to manuver around that lone wolf or to get into a flanking position and hit them from behind. Say it with me "MEDIUM MECHS SHOULD NEVER TRY TO BE THE TIP OF THE SPEAR". Thats what assault mechs are for - to be distractions while you move in and lay the smack down on the enemy from behind.

LIke you said, you worry more about Heavies than you do Assaults. Assaults are almost all generally slow enough that a Medium mech can get away. But Heavies are only slightly slower, and most of the maps are too small for a Medium mech to eke out its speed advantage into something useful. By the time you make some meaningful difference in distance traveled, you're running out-of-bounds already. =/

I honestly think Medium mechs are fine, it's the maps that are too small, and the lack of objectives.