14 replies to this topic

[Hex Pallett]

So if Gauss now has 0.75s charging time, shouldn't the cooldown timer be decreased to 3.25s from the original 4s? Because now Gauss has an even longer, 4.75s, firing cycle.

I don't even use Gauss that often and I welcome the idea of making Gauss a trickier weapon to use, but to dumb down Gauss' already dreadful DPS even more, for a weapon that is already tricky to use and risky to equip, is way too much in my humbled opinion.

I can even accept a 1-second charging timer, as long as the cooldown timer is accordingly adjusted to 3s.

Poor Gauss.

[Xenok]

I have nearly quit using the Gauss largely because of this issue.

In effect they reduced the Gauss DPS from 3.75 (lowest of all ballistics other than AC5 and machine gun) down to 3.15 which makes it the worst DPS ballistic, with the exception of the machine gun which is much better than the Guass when armor is gone. It is now the worst balistic weapon other than it runs very cool.

On top of the fact that it is fragile, takes out whatever part of your mech its in we now have a rediculous firing mechanism. Even if the charge were needed, it could be kept ready on a coil for hours with minimul power requirements. It makes no sense in any way, least of all in any way improving game play.

the snipping issue was with PPCs not the guass.

Most people played the guass in singles (to heavy to use two in most cases, or two many critical slots for two....) and it was not abusive. I used the weapon often, as a kill shot weapon. Now I press the button and wait then fire. Often I am dead before the kill shot occurs because the wait is to long, or my opportunity for the shot is gone.\

On my Jagger DD which is a sniper Gauss I have removed them. You press the button, charge up and then line up the shot and the charge has expired and you have to do it again.

If they plan to keep this machanic they need to do the following.

1. Make the Guass cool down significantly shorter. At a minimum make it whatever the charge time is shorter.
2. Shorten the charge time to .25 to .5 seconds rather than .75. its to long.
3. Increase the time before the charge dissipates to 4 or 5 seconds, maybe even longer.

Better yet get rid of this overly complex and silly mechanic. The Guass was all ready plenty nurfed and well balanced.

To solve the sniper problem slow the speed back down to 1200 and then reduce ERPPCs to 600 and standard PPCs to 500. that would make it much harder to snipe, particularly with the PPCs as they are all different speeds and slow enough that at range you could get out of the way before they hit you in most mechs. With those lower speeds you could reduce the heat back down to reasonable levels as the PPCs would no longer be broken.

[DYSEQTA]

What on earth does DPS have to do with Gauss Rifles? Damage Per Match, sure. Damage Per Second? No sense whatsoever.

The Gauss Rifle is not a brawling weapon so DPS is pretty much irrelevant.

[Cest7]

3.75 DPS 4s cycle pre-patch
3.16 DPS 4.75s cycle post-patch

Hm?! DPS is very relevant, same with ROF/cycle times.
You live for 12 seconds, do you want to shoot 2, or 3 times?

[Sir Trent Howell]

Cest7, on 06 September 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

3.75 DPS 4s cycle pre-patch
3.16 DPS 4.75s cycle post-patch

Hm?! DPS is very relevant, same with ROF/cycle times.
You live for 12 seconds, do you want to shoot 2, or 3 times?

DPS is totally irrelevant. The weapon is not a sustained fire weapon. It's like complaining a sniper rifle has a low DPS. Duh, that's because it's a sniper rifle, it is not intended as a DPS weapon.

It's irrelevant because you are meant to remain behind cover, pop out, take a shot, then retreat under cover. You wait under cover until you get a good shot again. It's about accurate pinpoint shooting not sustained fire. You can't even use it as a snap fire weapon anymore. If you are using the gauss rifle as a DPS weapon, you are using it wrong.

[Hex Pallett]

Sir Trent Howell, on 06 September 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

DPS is totally irrelevant. The weapon is not a sustained fire weapon. It's like complaining a sniper rifle has a low DPS. Duh, that's because it's a sniper rifle, it is not intended as a DPS weapon.

It's irrelevant because you are meant to remain behind cover, pop out, take a shot, then retreat under cover. You wait under cover until you get a good shot again. It's about accurate pinpoint shooting not sustained fire. You can't even use it as a snap fire weapon anymore. If you are using the gauss rifle as a DPS weapon, you are using it wrong.

No. You're using it wrong. I can use my Gauss however I goddamm please. I myself never use dual-Gauss or whatever but I often do parallel runs behind the first line of fire with other ballistics. And now I wouldn't even try to use them because I can do better with two AC10s.

And what about those who doesn't have ballistic hardpoints shoulder-high? What about Victors? What about Highlanders? What about all those slow 'Mechs who has to stick everything above their thigh out of cover? And what about triple-UAC5? There isn't much difference between two consecutive shots of UAC5x3 and twin-Gauss, but the former weights 3 tons less and comes with better DPS and the double-fire bonus. What now? Nerf UAC5 more?

Seriously, take your sniper theory and blow it out your rear.

[Sir Trent Howell]

Helmstif, on 06 September 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

No. You're using it wrong. I can use my Gauss however I goddamm please. I myself never use dual-Gauss or whatever but I often do parallel runs behind the first line of fire with other ballistics. And now I wouldn't even try to use them because I can do better with two AC10s.

And what about those who doesn't have ballistic hardpoints shoulder-high? What about Victors? What about Highlanders? What about all those slow 'Mechs who has to stick everything above their thigh out of cover? And what about triple-UAC5? There isn't much difference between two consecutive shots of UAC5x3 and twin-Gauss, but the former weights 3 tons less and comes with better DPS and the double-fire bonus. What now? Nerf UAC5 more?

Seriously, take your sniper theory and blow it out your rear.

That's classy. Good job on being mature.

I don't know what you're arguing but it does not appear you understand the purpose of the weapon. DPS does not apply to sniper weapons. You take a shot, then you get under cover during the reload and maneuvering for another shot. GRs shred DPS 'Mechs at range when used properly in the same way DPS 'Mechs shred GR units at short range.

So let me descend to your level for a moment. You don't have a clue as to the intended purpose of the weapon. Your theory is idiotic. Let me know if you'd like some lessons on how to play this game properly.

[Hex Pallett]

Sir Trent Howell, on 10 September 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

That's classy. Good job on being mature.

I don't know what you're arguing but it does not appear you understand the purpose of the weapon. DPS does not apply to sniper weapons. You take a shot, then you get under cover during the reload and maneuvering for another shot. GRs shred DPS 'Mechs at range when used properly in the same way DPS 'Mechs shred GR units at short range.

So let me descend to your level for a moment. You don't have a clue as to the intended purpose of the weapon. Your theory is idiotic. Let me know if you'd like some lessons on how to play this game properly.

I understand your whole "intentional purpose" theory completely. I'm saying that your whole theory is bullsh*t. You say GR "shreds" DPS 'Mech over range? My quad-AC2 Jager begs to differ. My triple-UAC5 Ilya begs to differ. The current nerf makes Gauss only viable when boating with another Gauss, and makes it a completely impractical weapon to use in any other way.

And I DON'T CARE about the intentional purpose of the weapon. No one cares. AC20 is a brawling weapon, no? The "classic" AC40 Jager would completely dominate a twin-Gauss anything within 400 meters (assuming the damage drop-off for AC20 is linear). Dare you say that "sniper" range is only within 400-600 meters. And dare you say that leading shots for AC40 is harder than Gauss' charging system. And dare you say that DPS doesn't matter.

Shove it and blow it.

Edited by Helmstif, 15 September 2013 - 07:32 PM.

[Cest7]

Sir Trent Howell, on 10 September 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

blah blah blah DPS does not apply to sniper weapons. yadda yadda GRs shred DPS 'Mechs at range when used properly in the same way DPS 'Mechs shred GR units at short range. Blah Blah blah

Maybe.... If the GR's DPS didn't suck... It wouldn't get shredded by "dps" mechs? Why can't my sniper build have good DPS?

I've used the GR since Closed beta. I use it as a brawling weapon, <200m shots. I use it as a sniper weapon, >1200m shots. You don't always have the luxury of being able to stay at optimal range, sometimes poop hits the fan and you're faced with no other choice than to fire your GR point blank.

I'm with Helmstif on this one..

Look at the numbers. Lets assume we can all aim and hit a mech a few times.

@500m 10 second engagement:

GR would do 30 damage (2 shots).
AC/10 would do 40 damage (4 shots).

Its a simple fact that on paper, and in practice, the GR is now the worst ballistic.

Sir Trent Howell, on 10 September 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

You take a shot, then you get under cover during the reload and maneuvering for another shot.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this. With the 4s gauss reload, I could easily peg 2 or 3 rounds down range. If you're taking single pot shots and running away, you are seriously hampering your damage. Your play style seems to be that of a cherrypicker, where DPS does not play as much of a factor. However, I return to my original point of....

Do you want to shoot twice? Or 3 times?

[Xenok]

Sir Trent Howell, on 10 September 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

That's classy. Good job on being mature.

I don't know what you're arguing but it does not appear you understand the purpose of the weapon. DPS does not apply to sniper weapons. You take a shot, then you get under cover during the reload and maneuvering for another shot. GRs shred DPS 'Mechs at range when used properly in the same way DPS 'Mechs shred GR units at short range.

So let me descend to your level for a moment. You don't have a clue as to the intended purpose of the weapon. Your theory is idiotic. Let me know if you'd like some lessons on how to play this game properly.

You are making an invalid assumption. Most people running a guass do not use it as a sniper weapon. It is not solely a sniper weapon, never was and never will be, but lets say its intent is purely as a sniper weapon. .75 second delay in reload allows 3x UAC5 mech to get off an additional shot, perhaps a double shot on all three. That is 15-30 points of damage. I can snip with UAC5s as well as I can a guass, better and easier now. Score more damage and take advantage (should you not have cover) of your down time. That .75 seconds pushes the guass down to where this is true with even the regular AC5. It pushes it down to where fielding one would only be done when your mech simply runs to hot to run an LBX10 (2 points of heat) or an UAC5. Otherwise the Guass is inferior.

I do agree that the main point of the gauss is not DPS, thats the realm of the AC2 and UAC5. However it has to be high enough to be able to compete once you close in or its never going to see play by any intelligent player. It was barely into that range before, and now its simply reduced to the point where a UAC5 is better at all ranged, even if they raise the lock up back up to 25%. The AC5 is now better at all ranged. for just 1 ton more space you have a 10 point all range very low heat weapon system that does not burn through ammo. Anyone using a Guass right now has not done basic math or has a mech that cannot mount dual AC5s/UAC5s. They took the nurf way to far it does not work, no argument for it works. Its just a bad gun now. That needs to be fixed.

[Joseph Mallan]

Helmstif, on 13 September 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

I understand your whole "intentional purpose" theory completely. I'm saying that your whole theory is bullsh*t. You say GR "shreds" DPS 'Mech over range? My quad-AC2 Jager begs to differ. My triple-UAC5 Ilya begs to differ. The current nerf makes Gauss only viable when boating with another Gauss, and makes it a completely impractical weapon to use in any other way.

And I DON'T CARE about the intentional purpose of the weapon. No one cares. AC20 is a brawling weapon, no? The "classic" AC40 Jager would completely dominate a twin-Gauss anything within 400 meters (assuming the damage drop-off for AC20 is linear). Dare you say that "sniper" range is only within 400-600 meters. And dare you say that leading shots for AC40 is harder than Gauss' charging system. And dare you say that DPS doesn't matter.

Shove it and blow it.

Being that I use both, AC40s an a Gauss. Gauss is no more a Sniper weapon than an AC20 is an LRM. Everything that is required to do the snipers job is in the players side of the monitor. All the delays and calculations a shooter has to make are in his/her head (or that of the spotter). So Being a Sniper in game is all Role play. If you are good at your role you should be a good sniper. As to DpS v Front loaded damage... As my Banner says, "Death Only Aims Once"

DpS and Front loaded damage will be argued over for years to come. One kills by paper cuts the other by smashing your head with a hammer. Personally I like pulling my trigger once and watching my enemy stumble and die. If you want to be a finesse fighter you want DpS.

[focuspark]

Yup Gauss DPS took a massive nose dive after the 0.75 charge timer was added. PGI needs to fix this, I haven't been killed by a Gauss round in weeks.

[Joseph Mallan]

A Machine Gun or Laser should be worried about DpS. ACs and Missiles should not. All the damage hits you all at once, for a weapon like that, DpS is a lie.

[focuspark]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 September 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

A Machine Gun or Laser should be worried about DpS. ACs and Missiles should not. All the damage hits you all at once, for a weapon like that, DpS is a lie.

You keep saying this but AC/2 and UAC/5 are all about the DPS.

Forcing Gauss to wait an additional 0.75 seconds between shots means their target have nearly "forever" to get under cover.

The OP is correct in that the cooldown should be shortened to compensate for the new charge up mechanic. It doesn't need to be a 1:1 compensation, but some balancing should occur.

[Cest7]

Thanks Niko for reviving this
Lets try and keep it civil people...

Xenok, on 14 September 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

-snip .75 second delay in reload allows 3x UAC5 mech to get off an additional shot, perhaps a double shot on all three. That is 15-30 points of damage. -snip

This is the biggest issue I still have with the gauss.
The change of its "role" which this topic keeps wandering to its not my issue.
Adding less than a second to the recycle sounds like nothing, but as focus said above, they now have eons to run for cover.... If your first shot misses, its not a discussion of front load/dps. The wep is so damn slow you missed your window. Granted, this doesn't happen every shot, but if you fielded U/AC5 you could be gauranteed 2 shots down range, missing the first and compensating for the 2nd without waiting for a cooldown and charge.

Edited by Cest7, 26 September 2013 - 12:43 PM.