31 replies to this topic

[ICEFANG13]

ShadowbaneX, on 10 September 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

They've got a system in place where for light mechs the max engine rating is 1.4 times the base speed. ~1.3 for mediums, ~1.2 for heavies and assaults. This breaks down with the Spiders, the Cicadas and the like which already start out with really high engines, so they cap it at the point where the mech would hit 150 kph with tweak.

What I'm finding odd though is that looking at the entries on Sarna, it would seem that the Raven is supposed to be able to hit 97.2 kph, not the 81 kph that's in MWO. Did the Raven-2X & 4X come with smaller engines?

Either way, I think the solution is going to be MASC. That will allow the 2 & 4X to hit 150 kph without any other changes.

The Raven-2/4X have a max engine size of 245, but start with the 175 which gives them that speed and the engine limit. The 3L starts with 210, so it can go to 295. The Jenner actually should be able to go to 167.7 speed (ish) with a 340 and the Spider should be able to get to 208 KPH. There is just the hard limit of 150 in game.

[ShadowbaneX]

ICEFANG13, on 10 September 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

The Raven-2/4X have a max engine size of 245, but start with the 175 which gives them that speed and the engine limit. The 3L starts with 210, so it can go to 295. The Jenner actually should be able to go to 167.7 speed (ish) with a 340 and the Spider should be able to get to 208 KPH. There is just the hard limit of 150 in game.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was saying. What I was asking about was if the 2 & 4X Raven's had a smaller engine in TT, not in MWO.

[Gaan Cathal]

Joker Two, on 10 September 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

The fastest light 'Mechs; Spiders, can barely increase their speed at all, while the slowest 'Mechs; Commandos and Ravens, can increase their speed by a massive amount, to the point where the RVN-3L can achieve the same speed as the SDR, a 'Mech that should be 33% faster than it.

Except of course, that in TT if you change the engine in both a Jenner and a Raven, there's no arbitrary reason you can't put the same size in both. Never mind that I already can't fit a Jenner-scale engine in my Raven, but a Jenner can happily fit Raven-scale armour values.

ShadowbaneX, on 10 September 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Either way, I think the solution is going to be MASC. That will allow the 2 & 4X to hit 150 kph without any other changes.

They've more or less said MASC won't be in until the 150kph limit is removed in any case, at which point the relative speed game is going to change up significantly in any case.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 11 September 2013 - 12:29 AM.

[ShadowbaneX]

Gaan Cathal, on 11 September 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

They've more or less said MASC won't be in until the 150kph limit is removed in any case, at which point the relative speed game is going to change up significantly in any case.

No it won't, well, ok, with MASC it will. Spiders and the smaller mechs will be able to hit 200+ kph in short bursts, but that's about it. You're not going to see light mechs running around over 150 kph very often unless they gimmick builds.

Lets take the Spider for an example, sure it should be able to mount a 335 engine. With speed tweak it should be able to hit 198.99 kph. With Endo-Steel & Ferro-Fibrous it will even be able to mount 7.35 tons of armour, it's max, (210)...and then have 1.14 tons left over for jump jets. So let's knock that down to 7 tons of armour and mount 3 jump jets. Not bad, but it's enough to get airborne.

There's one tinsy little problem though. Weapons: none.

Ok, how about 1 JJ & 2 SLs? Right, so now we've got a 30 ton mech that can go near as doesn't matter 200 kph with 1 jump jet and 2 small lasers. Sounds like a winner to me. Oh, and in the case of the Spider-5D, no room for ECM either. All the other light mechs are going to be in the same boat. The Cicada is going to be worse. It'll be capped at a 400 XL which can hit 178 kph, but will have 4.5 tons of armour and no weapons.

The game will get faster (in small intervals) because of MASC, but I doubt the top speed of most mechs will change much as there just isn't enough tonnage to actually mount those larger engines.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 11 September 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[Lucky Moniker]

ShadowbaneX, on 11 September 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

No it won't, well, ok, with MASC it will. Spiders and the smaller mechs will be able to hit 200+ kph in short bursts, but that's about it. You're not going to see light mechs running around over 150 kph very often unless they gimmick builds.

Lets take the Spider for an example, sure it should be able to mount a 335 engine. With speed tweak it should be able to hit 198.99 kph. With Endo-Steel & Ferro-Fibrous it will even be able to mount 7.35 tons of armour, it's max, (210)...and then have 1.14 tons left over for jump jets. So let's knock that down to 7 tons of armour and mount 3 jump jets. Not bad, but it's enough to get airborne.

There's one tinsy little problem though. Weapons: none.

Ok, how about 1 JJ & 2 SLs? Right, so now we've got a 30 ton mech that can go near as doesn't matter 200 kph with 1 jump jet and 2 small lasers. Sounds like a winner to me. Oh, and in the case of the Spider-5D, no room for ECM either. All the other light mechs are going to be in the same boat. The Cicada is going to be worse. It'll be capped at a 400 XL which can hit 178 kph, but will have 4.5 tons of armour and no weapons.

The game will get faster (in small intervals) because of MASC, but I doubt the top speed of most mechs will change much as there just isn't enough tonnage to actually mount those larger engines.

and you sir, have hit the proverbial nail on the head. Yeah light mechs will get a little bit quicker but not so much that we need flip out. MASC will be a game changer and make for much more interesting play as a light mech pilot, but cant see it being too much of an issue.

[Gaan Cathal]

ShadowbaneX, on 11 September 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

No it won't, well, ok, with MASC it will. Spiders and the smaller mechs will be able to hit 200+ kph in short bursts, but that's about it. You're not going to see light mechs running around over 150 kph very often unless they gimmick builds.

I thought a Spider with a 300 was supposed to go faster than 150kph in the first place? Or am I misinformed (not a TT player)?

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 11 September 2013 - 10:51 AM.

[ShadowbaneX]

A Spider (let's assume the 5D because it's the most popular) with a 300 engine should hit about 162 kph (178.2 with speed tweak). With Endo & FF you could have 197/210 for armour and have 7.5 tons left over. Add in 1.5 tons for ECM, and say 1 ton for MASC (which would let you hit 216 kph for brief periods) you're left with 5 tons. That could be 4 JJs & 3 MLs.

That's not a bad package, but you're mounting half the possible jump jets and are a little light in the weapons department seeing as how I frequently see Spiders running around with ER PPC or other large energy weapons.

A max engine Spider (335) could hit 180.9 kph (198.99 with tweak & 241.2 with MASC), but would have only room for one small laser. You could strip off some armour for extra weapons & jump jets though.

[William T Riker]

If you can't beat em join em

RVN-4X

[Alistair Winter]

I didn't see this mentioned already, but Garth Erlam hinted that they would be increasing the engine cap for the Raven 2X and 4X, so hopefully this will happen soon again.

Then again, he said it would happen in the next patch or so.

And that was in April.

Sooo......

Yeah.

[Asakara]

Foxfire, on 06 September 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Engine cap: 245--->295.

The raven's legs are just too targetable for the mech to cap out at 123 kph with speed tweek. There is no reason at all for this limitation to be in place.

Posted on April 3rd:

http://mwomercs.com/...4x-need-a-buff/

Wolf87535 said:

The raven 2x and 4x really need a buff of some sort. Slower than other light mechs, less hard points than a Jenner, at least the Spiders have good jumping and a small profile! So what do these two Raven variants do? Die mostly. At least give them a top engine cap like the 3L or Jenner! Or better yet, switch the max engine size of the 3L and the 2x/4x. Or maybe an extra missile hard point where the SRM6 is, the Commando 1D has 2 hard points for a single SRM6, so it is not unprecedented. I am not saying they need a complete overhaul, just a little something. C'mon PGI, throw us Raven fans something other than the 3L!

Garth Erlam said:

Wolf87535, I think you will be happy in a patch or two.

Now I may be mistaken but we have had more than "a patch or two" between April 3rd and September 13th.

Edited by Asakara, 13 September 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Foxfire]

William T Riker, on 11 September 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

If you can't beat em join em

RVN-4X

Move that ammo up into the side torsos.. much less likely to get hit and go boom on you.

Alistair Winter, on 12 September 2013 - 11:59 PM, said:

I didn't see this mentioned already, but Garth Erlam hinted that they would be increasing the engine cap for the Raven 2X and 4X, so hopefully this will happen soon again.

Then again, he said it would happen in the next patch or so.

And that was in April.

Sooo......

Yeah.

Yeah, it was so long ago that I had given up hope on it happening.

[Foxfire]

Alright.. restarted my experiment with the Raven 4X.. taking that break from her seems to be what I needed to get a fresh train of thought with the mech. It's back to being a fun chasis as long as I can avoid making myself the center of attention.