89 replies to this topic

[Schtirlitz]

Pre-designed maps are good, but why not use the random generated maps? They are widely used in RTS games and even in some FPS games. There will be MANY planets in MWO universe so i think it is better to set a number of map parameters and use them to generate random maps for different planets, than to make a lot of maps for game or use a limited number of maps for all planets.

I think the pre-designed maps are must-have, but adding the random generated maps will make the game more interesting, vivid and less predetermined.

Edited by Schtirlitz, 14 June 2012 - 02:16 AM.

[harrythedino]

That sounds like fun! Maybe players should be allowed something like Halo's forge mode to modify and create new maps! No I am not trying to make this a little bit like Halo I'm just saying that we should, can, and maybe are good at making maps, I am one of the people who should make maps but I'd have have fun with the map instead.

[Siilk]

Great idea! I know it's hard to implement but it would be more than worth it. Playing same pre-made maps would sooner or later turn into a repetitive usage of exact same couple of strategies over and over again. Random maps will make players rethink their strategy every time, making scouting and info warfare really important.

And it wouldn't have to be "truly random" procedural-generated maps. A simple algorithm, that composes map from an assortment of pre-made "sectors"(not unlike diablo's map generator) would be more than enough.

[strafer]

Siilk, on 14 June 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

And it wouldn't have to be "truly random" procedural-generated maps. A simple algorithm, that composes map from an assortment of pre-made "sectors"(not unlike diablo's map generator) would be more than enough.

It would have to be truly random, why not?

[TyGeR STD]

anything will be better then only haveing like 4 or 5 maps, I've been playing Tribes sence the beta started an playing the same few maps over, an over, an over gets old really quick. More maps are always better, random maps would be cool

[Rodney28021]

Yeah, if the Devs can make random generated maps for battles that would be great. Playing the same map over and over gets rather old quickly. I am for it.

[Roland]

I would definitely support such a thing. I was thinking about it a bit last night, in fact.

I think making it truly "randomly generated" would likely be problematic... the reality is, if you totally randomize the map, you're going to get into problems. Terrain holes, poorly balanced maps, etc.

However, I think a potential compromise which would provide some degree of randomness, while avoiding a lot of the issues with totally random maps, would be the following:

Provide a core map, with section of it broken up into tiles that can be switched out. So, in an urban environment, for instance, you could have the primary section of the city broken up into 9 large tiles, with each tile comprising maybe 9 square blocks. By swapping in different tiles or shuffling them around, you'd achieve different overall layouts for the city which would create some dynamic aspect to how individual battles may play out. At the same time, you wouldn't have to deal with creating an entirely new magical map generator.

Additionally, you could still have sections of the map remain static, such as the drop-zones or bases, and only choose to randomize certain sections. This would allow you to address balance issues by making sure that at least portions of the map which played the most critical role were statically balanced (ie.neither side started off with some major elevation advantage or something like that).


I'm guessing that this may be too hard to implement so late in the game, but perhaps it could be useful to the devs in the future development cycles.

[Grokmoo]

It would be tough to generate good random maps. But if it could be done, the payoff would be worth it. Instead of fighting on the same battlefield, you would be marching into the unknown every time.

[GHQCommander]

I mentioned this in a thread couple days back, thread about map sizes.

It is a genesis type approach and I'm going to be surprised if it's not exactly what they have done. If we are fighting over planets, yet somehow every planet only has a couple of maps, I won't be impressed. It would not make sense.

To give an impression we are fighting on different land per battle on a single planet, that would get a big gold star from me. However I know it is not easy, it would have or would need to be a key feature of the game.

Fingers crossed!

Roland, on 14 June 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

I would definitely support such a thing. I was thinking about it a bit last night, in fact.

I think making it truly "randomly generated" would likely be problematic... the reality is, if you totally randomize the map, you're going to get into problems. Terrain holes, poorly balanced maps, etc.

However, I think a potential compromise which would provide some degree of randomness, while avoiding a lot of the issues with totally random maps, would be the following:

Provide a core map, with section of it broken up into tiles that can be switched out. So, in an urban environment, for instance, you could have the primary section of the city broken up into 9 large tiles, with each tile comprising maybe 9 square blocks. By swapping in different tiles or shuffling them around, you'd achieve different overall layouts for the city which would create some dynamic aspect to how individual battles may play out. At the same time, you wouldn't have to deal with creating an entirely new magical map generator.

Additionally, you could still have sections of the map remain static, such as the drop-zones or bases, and only choose to randomize certain sections. This would allow you to address balance issues by making sure that at least portions of the map which played the most critical role were statically balanced (ie.neither side started off with some major elevation advantage or something like that).


I'm guessing that this may be too hard to implement so late in the game, but perhaps it could be useful to the devs in the future development cycles.

Yes loads of problems for sure and I'm not sure servers could handle this the more I think about it.

The devs are really holding back on answering this one and it's making me more excited.

[Roland]

Quote

If we are fighting over planets, yet somehow every planet only has a couple of maps, I won't be impressed. It would not make sense.

Eh, I think that's just how it's likely to be.

I honestly would not expect them to make the randomly generated maps thing I described. I would expect they will make a set of maps akin to what we saw in MW4... or really virtually every other shooter in existence.

[strafer]

Almost everybody, who played HoMM or Civ or something alike, knows incomparable pleasure of exploring new world, yeah?

As for servers perfomance: my idea (may be evident) is to generate one map for lots of simultaneous combats with simular conditions - anyway, participants of these combats can't see what map is in the parallel combat.


Please reply in this topic more often (worth-while posts of course) so it will be more noticeable for Devs.

Edited by strafer, 14 June 2012 - 08:15 PM.

[RedRidingHood]

A user Generated map system would be even better.

[Attalward]

Well when you think about random generated maps, at first it looks like a lot of work. But down the line it actually aleviates teh charge of creating maps, becuase instead of having to add full new maps, you can just add pieces. This generates new maps with less work form artists adn map makers.

And sincerely it si not that difficult to program a random map generator, that actually is pretty easy- The difficult part is having art assets for maps that are designed with this thinking, so tehy have interchangeable sides and fit together in many positions.

[Zephonarch II]

Randomly generated maps would be a major objective for add-ons after the launch, same as additional mechs(mektek). It'd attract more attention from the rest of the gaming community, if they see a glimpse.

Roland, on 14 June 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

Eh, I think that's just how it's likely to be.

I honestly would not expect them to make the randomly generated maps thing I described. I would expect they will make a set of maps akin to what we saw in MW4... or really virtually every other shooter in existence.

I hope they still consider the concept though. Maybe, there could be a very large server that that could support multiple engagements between many regiments, even sabatoging other battles taking place and ambushing on certain areas the huge map. Multi-Battlefield Supporting Servers. just picture the MW3 intro, and what it is happening beyond the cloud of smoke. It'd be a very major project the devs could undertake, and very time-consuming but it'd be worth it! This is stressful for the devs, but hope it works out.

Edited by Zephonarch II, 14 June 2012 - 11:04 AM.

[Lima Zulu]

Even it's obvious hard to create good urban map with random tool, it might work well with simple terrains. While Crysis Sandbox can inport height maps in few formats, you can create realistic-looking height maps with ease. Ofc you need all vegetations things and some rocks, but It's doable, I belive

[Linkin]

A few others have touched on this and it makes the most sense to me as well. If I recall, the IS will be fighting for control over a variety of border worlds. To me, what would work best, (not easiest to make perhaps, just a fun and logical way for the fighting to work) is to have certain permanent maps, but also have random maps, or even just variations on the already existing maps.

If you think about it, you wouldn't always be fighting over the exact same spot each battle, especially if some of the planets have multiple or lengthy campaigns. Of course there would be some areas that you would fight over more frequently, cities, resource areas, bridges, etc, these could be the permanent maps. The random maps could be used for the terrain around these areas, which would make sense, as attackers wouldn't always attack from same location. Maybe one map could have a hilly pass, another could have a river crossing, or another could be a valley on the other side.

All in all, good suggestion, I like the idea of having new and unknown territory to fight over.

[ELHImp]

Hey, he steal my idea! ROFL.
But, 'cause it's mine, I fully support it.

[strafer]

ELHImp, on 15 June 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

Hey, he steal my idea! ROFL.

Idea was thick in the air, MWO really need it. A great game asks for deep maps.

[Schtirlitz]

Of course on release-day we will see only pre-designed maps, but i hope the developers will aim at random generated maps in one of early patches. Or not that early ones, because it is a tough job to make a suitable random maps generator.

[ELHImp]

strafer, on 15 June 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

Idea was thick in the air, MWO really need it. A great game asks for deep maps.

I'm just joking.