40 replies to this topic

[Felio]

I think people are under the false assumption that hitboxes and hit detection are synonymous.

I also think there is some confirmation bias at work here. They've decided spiders have broken hit detection, so every time they think they should have hit, they place weight on that experience. Hits that strike normally are ignored, as are near-misses against other mechs.

[NecessaryWeevil]

So what I'm hearing so far is that there's a ton of anecdotal evidence but nothing objective and reproducible.

[Roland]

I've noticed that a big part of the "problem" with the spider isn't actually broken hitboxes, but rather the fact that it is so skinny and moves so fast.

This tends to require that you lead the target with any kind of travel time weaponry. However, this will usually put your reticle off of the target, and cause your weapons to converge at a further distance.

The result of this is that, due to the spider's narrow profile, the weapons pass on the sides of it, and don't do damage.

Personally, I have never seen my shots actually fail to damage a spider I'm shooting at, but I don't discount the many folks' claims who say it happens.

[PostalPatriot]

Hi guys, I am a spider pilot, and i have a ping of 23-29. If i stop I die, plain and simply. I do take dmg from peoples lasers but i think folks are forgetting if your hitting me for .1 seconds, Your not doing full dmg to my little ******* of a mech. It's literally impossable for you to get Full dmg on lasers vs a spider thats coding you. There isn't enough time to pin point dmg, so typically most laser dmg gets scattered... now AC weapons, well those are another story if you can time your shots right and land one, its going to hurt.

[Steel Will]

Broken.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Steel Will, on 08 September 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Broken.

OK, that's interesting and the kind of thing I was looking for. Would be interesting to have a developer comment on that.

--

Anyway, I wanted to say that I just played a match where I was trying to chase down a SDR-5V with my SDR-5D. Probably 50% of my shots missed, and I think it was due to convergence issues, as Roland mentioned above. I was maybe 50 meters behind the target, so almost point blank, but many of my ERPPC shots went wide. I think that's because the Spider is so small and mobile that my reticle isn't on the target very long, and so when I do get it on target and fire, the weapon can't adjust in time.

[DeaconW]

Tynan, on 07 September 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

I haven't played my spider since the recent patch, but it definitely *was* broken, far more than any other mech I've piloted. I can think of one particular instance where I was standing still, thinking no one could see me (stupid, yes, I know), and took a pair of AC10 slugs and just shrugged them off.

Of course, that's all pre-patch. Not sure how much better it is now.

Hey look...an honest spider pilot!^^ Kudos to you, Sir! Seriously, I have been joking for a while that I am sure there are some great spider pilots out there...we just don't know who they are yet!

[DONTOR]

spiders hit boxes arent broken they are small and on a fast tiny mech. I play with 125 ping and kill spiders 1 on 1 with my DDC no problem. Bad aim and poor lead time is the problem.... because you absolutely do have to lead them.

[Tezcatli]

Wolfways, on 06 September 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

I hardly see any difference between Spiders and other lights. The Jenner is the toughest, but they all take a massive amount of damage to kill...except the Commando.

Yeah. Funny that how easy it is to kill the Commando compared to every other light mech. Though non-ECM ravens are almost as easy to kill >.>

[Corvus Antaka]

since this last patch ive had 0 problems to date damaging spiders.

[Aym]

xenoglyph, on 07 September 2013 - 02:11 AM, said:

I think if lasers had a larger beam diameter for the purposes of hit detection that the Spider problem could be fixed overnight.

Interesting idea.

[dario03]

DONTOR, on 08 September 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

spiders hit boxes arent broken they are small and on a fast tiny mech. I play with 125 ping and kill spiders 1 on 1 with my DDC no problem. Bad aim and poor lead time is the problem.... because you absolutely do have to lead them.

Except for when the spider is over heating and not moving at all. And even then some players will see their hits not register or only do partial damage against some spiders. The problem is inconsistent but definitely was there. I haven't played much since the last patch but it did seem like it has got better.

[The Boz]

Shot one that got careless enough to shut down last night. At a distance of 30 meters. With a twin LBX. Right in the chest.
Shot pretty much entirely failed to connect.

[Clit Beastwood]

The one big thing I've noticed. Since the last patch, I can no longer successfully run the spider after a few (8) beers. Before beer, I simply had to stick to cover and be a little less bold, but still dropping 500+ damage the majority of rounds (the rounds where I didn't die from the first hit - the spider's like that.. you either die right away or you're there til the bitter end... no middle ground!)

after beer, I was trying to run around and kick shins, ignoring OP strategies like "discretion" and "retreating" and died pretty quickly. Still fun though I still think of my spiders like my motorcycles.. most of the time, a bad RIDE on my bike beats the hell out of a good DRIVE in a truck. Zoom zoom!

[Gaan Cathal]

Tezcatli, on 08 September 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

Yeah. Funny that how easy it is to kill the Commando compared to every other light mech. Though non-ECM ravens are almost as easy to kill >.>

That's because they're slow, not because their hitboxes are magically better.

dario03, on 09 September 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Except for when the spider is over heating and not moving at all. And even then some players will see their hits not register or only do partial damage against some spiders. The problem is inconsistent but definitely was there. I haven't played much since the last patch but it did seem like it has got better.

That is not a Spider-specific issue. That's a problem that's been around quite a while where when a mech instantly stops due to overheating, the apparent and actual locations aren't the same. At one point it was possible to see hit-reg failures on fast Heavies when this happened. The reason you only notice on the Spider is because it's fast and skinney, so even a small deviation matters. A Jenner or Raven is less prone because the hitboxes are nice and long (or, in the case of the Raven's legs, about three times as big as the graphic).

[Shifty Eyes]

Steel Will, on 08 September 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Broken.

Uh... anyone else going to comment on this?

This looks a bit old, but if it's still relevant, it's very glaring evidence. Maybe another test like this should be run.

[Snowcrow]

Shifty Eyes, on 09 September 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Uh... anyone else going to comment on this?

This looks a bit old, but if it's still relevant, it's very glaring evidence. Maybe another test like this should be run.

They implemented host state rewind fixes in the last patch. So the video isn't really relevant for how the situation is today.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

As far as I'm concerned Spiders were fixed last patch and have no trouble hitting them now. This is coming from a guy who created such provocative threads requesting to disable Spiders until a fix, even Niko stepped in to troll me/lock them down.

[Shifty Eyes]

Snowcrow, on 09 September 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

They implemented host state rewind fixes in the last patch. So the video isn't really relevant for how the situation is today.

I don't understand how HSR could possibly affect that video. Both mechs are standing perfectly still, so there is no rewinding to do... unless HSR was just THAT jacked up, which I didn't think it was.

[seymourbalzac]

dario03, on 07 September 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

In my experience it seems that some people get the hsr shield and some don't, could also be a sometimes thing. I've been in matches where a spider seemed to register every hit fine and died really quick (like 15 seconds with 2 mechs shooting it). But yet in the same match another spider would do like you said and basically only register every 7th shot. That's what actually bugs me the most, nobody should have that shield but its completely unfair that some people have it and others don't. And I think that's where a lot of this "it's broke" "no it isn't L2P" comes from (well that and others not wanting to lose the shield).

This is the exact issue, some get it and some don't and that's why there is so much fighting over it. I know in my spider that if I ever make 1 mistake I get annihilated immediately but I don't come on here saying it's not an issue because I've had spiders where I've put 3 straight ac/20 rounds from my wang square in their **** and it didn't do any damage. However I've also had spiders where those ac/20's registered first shot so it's definitely not "every spider is broken" or "nothing is wrong l2p" but somewhere in between.